With the Artisan background in 2024 you get the Crafter feat and with it the ability to use certain tools to fast craft items each morning after a long rest, which falls apart within 24 hours.
Can you use the Mending cantrip to repair the broken fast craft item, and then make an additional fast craft item using the feat?
Basically, can a Fast Crafter slowly build up an entire “fast craft” box of gear, spending zero money, and simply repair the broken tools whenever they are needed? By Day 10, you have 10 pieces of gear and can keep adding more.
To me this is the solution to fix the problems many on Youtube and other venues see with the Crafter feat.
I am planning to write another forum post about an Artisan build at some point, but am wondering if this has already been ruled against by WotC?
No. Mending repairs a sing break or tear, not a completely destroyed object. It also cannot restore hit points to an object.
You might be right. But, this is my line of thinking:
Here is the text of Fast Craft:
Fast Crafting.When you finish a Long Rest, you can craft one piece of gear from the Fast Crafting table, provided you have the Artisan’s Tools associated with that item and have proficiency with those tools. The item lasts until you finish another Long Rest, at which point the item falls apart.
I do not read “falls apart” as “completely destroyed.” I view it as breaking into 2-3 parts because it is poorly constructed…. not turning into a pile of dust. The fast crafting is not a magical action so it is not a magical destruction. The shovel breaks, the quarterstaff snaps, the ladder splinters, the tent rips, the jug leaks, etc etc.
So whether 1 cast or several casts, mending (which can repair even a magical item) should be able to repair a broken item one mend at a time.
Am I wrong?
I also know mending can actually restore hit points to robotic objects, so this “hitpoint comment” is really confusing to me.
Fast Crafting.When you finish a Long Rest, you can craft one piece of gear from the Fast Crafting table, provided you have the Artisan’s Tools associated with that item and have proficiency with those tools. The item lasts until you finish another Long Rest, at which point the item falls apart.
I do not read “falls apart” as “completely destroyed.” I view it as breaking into 2-3 parts because it is poorly constructed…. not turning into a pile of dust. The fast crafting is not a magical action so it is not a magical destruction. The shovel breaks, the quarterstaff snaps, the ladder splinters, the tent rips, the jug leaks, etc etc.
At best, it falls apart into its component parts. It is not an object that is broken. The object no longer exists and you have some scrap that you can probably toss together after a Long Rest. The only way to keep the item going is to recraft it at the end of your next long rest. Even then, it's a new object.
Crafter is a terrible feat and should be avoided. You could potentially get some use out of the discount if you are buying expensive armor, but it will quickly be a waste of space. If you can retrain out of it, that would be the only saving grace. As of now, I believe the only way to do that is via Wish.
Now that Eberron Forge of the Artificer is out, there is a flat-out better option as long you have access to it. House Cannith Heir does basically the same thing as the Artisan Background but gives you Sleight of Hand instead of Persuasion and the Mark of Making Dragonmark feat instead of Crafter. There is no contest between the two. Even if you don't have access to it, the PHB has better options depending on what you are looking for. Crafter is an Origin Feat for people who think D&D will let them craft in a meaningful way and it won't. The feat is a trap.
Fast Crafting.When you finish a Long Rest, you can craft one piece of gear from the Fast Crafting table, provided you have the Artisan’s Tools associated with that item and have proficiency with those tools. The item lasts until you finish another Long Rest, at which point the item falls apart.
I do not read “falls apart” as “completely destroyed.” I view it as breaking into 2-3 parts because it is poorly constructed…. not turning into a pile of dust. The fast crafting is not a magical action so it is not a magical destruction. The shovel breaks, the quarterstaff snaps, the ladder splinters, the tent rips, the jug leaks, etc etc.
At best, it falls apart into its component parts. It is not an object that is broken. The object no longer exists and you have some scrap that you can probably toss together after a Long Rest. The only way to keep the item going is to recraft it at the end of your next long rest. Even then, it's a new object.
Crafter is a terrible feat and should be avoided. You could potentially get some use out of the discount if you are buying expensive armor, but it will quickly be a waste of space. If you can retrain out of it, that would be the only saving grace. As of now, I believe the only way to do that is via Wish.
Now that Eberron Forge of the Artificer is out, there is a flat-out better option as long you have access to it. House Cannith Heir does basically the same thing as the Artisan Background but gives you Sleight of Hand instead of Persuasion and the Mark of Making Dragonmark feat instead of Crafter. There is no contest between the two. Even if you don't have access to it, the PHB has better options depending on what you are looking for. Crafter is an Origin Feat for people who think D&D will let them craft in a meaningful way and it won't. The feat is a trap.
I understand your position and that is the position that the Youtubers make. I suspect Artisan is basically a default background for NPCs. However I think that there is more to it than meets the eye.
Nowhere in the text of the feat does it say a Fast Craft item cannot be repaired. It just says it falls apart. There are magic spells that do something similar, and the magic of the spell ends. But it is apples and oranges: Fast Crafting is not a magical action.
For instance, let’s say I had a single chain that was broken in two. The text of Mending says I could fix one broken link of the chain with a cast. But if it had multiple breaks, I would need multiple casts.
”Multiple Casts” + Non-Magical Item + Creator Knowledge: I can’t see a reason for why Fast Craft items could not be repaired by mending. The text does not explicitly say it cannot be repaired, it just says that it “falls apart.”
A construct has many moving parts and the mending cantrip repairs it and this involves much more complexity than mending a quarterstaff.
This is my line of thinking.
Mending works on fast crafts. The DnD community simply hasn’t connected the dots yet.
Nowhere in the text of the feat does it say a Fast Craft item cannot be repaired. It just says it falls apart. There are magic spells that do something similar, and the magic of the spell ends. But it is apples and oranges: Fast Crafting is not a magical action.
Nowhere does it say that the object breaks or tears. Mending cannot recraft an item. It is for a cloak that has a rip and similar repairs. If you want the object in hand for more than a day, you need to buy it or craft it. Mending can't do it. It can't restore a destroyed object. It can't recreate or reassemble an object from component parts. It cannot restore hit points to an object or creature.
I also know mending can actually restore hit points to robotic objects, so this “hitpoint comment” is really confusing to me.
No, it cannot. That is not in the description of Mending anywhere. If a creature restores hit points when Mending is cast on it, that is a special rule of the creature and not a function of Mending.
Nowhere in the text of the feat does it say a Fast Craft item cannot be repaired. It just says it falls apart. There are magic spells that do something similar, and the magic of the spell ends. But it is apples and oranges: Fast Crafting is not a magical action.
For instance, let’s say I had a single chain that was broken in two. The text of Mending says I could fix one broken link of the chain with a cast. But if it had multiple breaks, I would need multiple casts.
Fast Craft would need to say that the object breaks or tears or that it is repairable. Even then, the break or tear would have to be within the constraints of Mending and it would likely need to explicitly state how to repair it, whether by Mending or not.
After the time lapses, you don't have a broken object; you have, at best, a collection of components and "a collection of components" is not a valid target for Mending. Fabricate targets raw components and creates a permanent object. You want Mending, a cantrip, to do the same thing as a 4th level spell.
A construct has many moving parts and the mending cantrip repairs it and this involves much more complexity than mending a quarterstaff.
It does not. A construct is a creature and cannot be targeted by Mending without a special rule. Autognome has a special rule that when Mending is cast on it, the Autognome can spend a hit die to regain hit points. That is not a property of Mending and does not apply to other constructs.
Nowhere in the text of the feat does it say a Fast Craft item cannot be repaired. It just says it falls apart. There are magic spells that do something similar, and the magic of the spell ends. But it is apples and oranges: Fast Crafting is not a magical action.
Nowhere does it say that the object breaks or tears. Mending cannot recraft an item. It is for a cloak that has a rip and similar repairs. If you want the object in hand for more than a day, you need to buy it or craft it. Mending can't do it. It can't restore a destroyed object. It can't recreate or reassemble an object from component parts. It cannot restore hit points to an object or creature.
I also know mending can actually restore hit points to robotic objects, so this “hitpoint comment” is really confusing to me.
No, it cannot. That is not in the description of Mending anywhere. If a creature restores hit points when Mending is cast on it, that is a special rule of the creature and not a function of Mending.
Nowhere in the text of the feat does it say a Fast Craft item cannot be repaired. It just says it falls apart. There are magic spells that do something similar, and the magic of the spell ends. But it is apples and oranges: Fast Crafting is not a magical action.
For instance, let’s say I had a single chain that was broken in two. The text of Mending says I could fix one broken link of the chain with a cast. But if it had multiple breaks, I would need multiple casts.
Fast Craft would need to say that the object breaks or tears or that it is repairable. Even then, the break or tear would have to be within the constraints of Mending and it would likely need to explicitly state how to repair it, whether by Mending or not.
After the time lapses, you don't have a broken object; you have, at best, a collection of components and "a collection of components" is not a valid target for Mending. Fabricate targets raw components and creates a permanent object. You want Mending, a cantrip, to do the same thing as a 4th level spell.
A construct has many moving parts and the mending cantrip repairs it and this involves much more complexity than mending a quarterstaff.
It does not. A construct is a creature and cannot be targeted by Mending without a special rule. Autognome has a special rule that when Mending is cast on it, the Autognome can spend a hit die to regain hit points. That is not a property of Mending and does not apply to other constructs.
Mending works on fast crafts. The DnD community simply hasn’t connected the dots yet.
It does not. If you want to house rule it as doing so, it would make it less awful.
Here is the mending text:
”This spell repairs a *single* break or tear in an object you touch, such as a broken chain link, two halves of a broken key, a torn cloak, or a leaking wineskin. As long as the break or tear is no larger than *1 foot in any dimension*, you mend it, leaving no trace of the former damage.
This spell can physically repair a magic item, but it can’t restore magic to such an object.”
Here is the text for fabricate:
”You convert raw materials into products of the same material. For example, you can fabricate a wooden bridge from a clump of trees, a rope from a patch of hemp, or clothes from flax or wool.
Choose raw materials that you can see within range. You can fabricate a Large or smaller object (contained within a 10-foot Cube or eight connected 5-foot Cubes) given a sufficient quantity of material. If you’re working with metal, stone, or another mineral substance, however, the fabricated object can be no larger than Medium (contained within a 5-foot Cube). The quality of any fabricated objects is based on the quality of the raw materials.
Creatures and magic items can’t be created by this spell. You also can’t use it to create items that require a high degree of skill—such as weapons and armor—unless you have proficiency with the type of Artisan’s Tools used to craft such objects.”
I am by no means suggesting that Mending is Fabricate. Fabricate is creating something new from raw materials. Mending repairs something that already exists. Fabricate is also on a much larger scale.
In order to say an object “cannot be repaired” you have to add words to the text of Fast Crafting that simply aren’t there. The text merely says “falls apart.”
I would argue that it is a House Rule that a “fall apart” item can not be repaired, because literally every child with legos knows how to fix a thing they dropped.
The language is vague. To say mending cannot mend a non-magical item like a quarterstaff just because it was made fast seems ridiculous.
It is not even really a problem for game balance either because at best you would have a crate of common items that could be purchased at any store, except they keep falling apart. This is the quintessential Tinker situation.
I am going to go with no. As I am not sure you even need materials to fast craft the items. You just need the tools and a long rest and somehow poof objects into existence. If you need the materials I am not sure what the point of it is as almost all of the items on the list are something you should be able to make over a long rest anyways. I mean crap a torch should take you 10 minutes tops. If it is intended to need materials as well then it reads like a list made by people who never worked with tools in there entire life. Oh my god you can make a torch during 8 hours of rest. So my assumption is you are making it out of effectively nothing. It isn't magical, but whatever you made that torch or ladder or block and tackle etc out of was scrap parts found in the environment that are barely held together by hope. And mending wont make chicken bones knotted together into a real ladder.
No. Mending repairs a sing break or tear, not a completely destroyed object. It also cannot restore hit points to an object.
It technically does restore hit points with ships at least. I think they just don't really have much in the mechanics of hit points with objects generally. They exist but are not really intended to be used much. It is why breaking down doors is always resolved as a athletics test instead of a I did enough hit points in damage to break the lock system.
I am by no means suggesting that Mending is Fabricate. Fabricate is creating something new from raw materials. Mending repairs something that already exists. Fabricate is also on a much larger scale.
You want free permanent objects from a Cantrip. That's what you want. Fabricate is the closest spell to your desired result.
In order to say an object “cannot be repaired” you have to add words to the text of Fast Crafting that simply aren’t there. The text merely says “falls apart.”
Quite the opposite. You need Fast Crafting to either say that it can be repaired, which it doesn't, or you need it describe the damage as breaks and tears so that it is something Mending can address, which it does not. Mending cannot restore an item from Fast Crafting and make it a permanent item. You will have to buy it or craft it for real.
I would argue that it is a House Rule that a “fall apart” item can not be repaired, because literally every child with legos knows how to fix a thing they dropped.
The language is vague. To say mending cannot mend a non-magical item like a quarterstaff just because it was made fast seems ridiculous.
It is not even really a problem for game balance either because at best you would have a crate of common items that could be purchased at any store, except they keep falling apart. This is the quintessential Tinker situation.
This isn't Legos. The language isn't vague. Mending is fine. Crafter is a terrible feat.
It technically does restore hit points with ships at least.
If so, that's a property of the ship, not the spell.
Maybe. I think its just a reflection of how hit points are abstracted in objects. If a chair loses a leg you generally aren't thinking about it as its 15 hit points out of 20 chair. It is just a chair without a leg. But technically if a DM did drop its hit points by 5 when the leg broke off when it was fixed it would be at full hit points now. Its just not mechanically represented because they rarely use hit points for objects. Its just a stick that is in 2 pieces not a 0 hit point stick. But ships do track damage as hit points so they developed how many hit points mending would fix. 1d8+ability mod once per hour.
I wish they would listen to peoples complaints on some of these things and change them. Crafter could be decent. One at least make it 4 tools, allow it be from the whole artisan tool list. When its 3 I'm like take skilled and you can get any artisan tool and pick a full skill if you want. And maybe change fast crafter to something like midnight oil you can spend X time of your long rest crafting while still gaining the benefit of the long rest. Or Fast crafter you can craft objects in half the time it would normally take. Fast crafter currently is just lame.
The discount on items isn't bad though in games where you are cash strapped.
I wish they would listen to peoples complaints on some of these things and change them. Crafter could be decent. One at least make it 4 tools, allow it be from the whole artisan tool list. When its 3 I'm like take skilled and you can get any artisan tool and pick a full skill if you want. And maybe change fast crafter to something like midnight oil you can spend X time of your long rest crafting while still gaining the benefit of the long rest. Or Fast crafter you can craft objects in half the time it would normally take. Fast crafter currently is just lame.
It's hard to change Crafter without stepping on Artificer. Fast Crafter is a worse Tinker's Magic, and I personally think the only good thing about Tinker's Magic is Mending. I would much rather have the old, unique effects, than being able to pull a general store item out of my unmentionables for it to disappear later. 5e has a strong disdain for crafting. It shows in the Crafter feat and it shows in the revised Artificer class. Crafting is something NPCs do, not players. As a huge fan of Artificers since they debuted, if you want to play a character that actively crafts, 5e isn't the system for you. Crafting is tacked on and feel begrudgingly allowed rather than a core feature.
The discount on items isn't bad though in games where you are cash strapped.
I don't think that represents the core assumptions. You shouldn't have to run an abnormal campaign in order make a core feature decent. Even then, how does a discount on buying equipment showcase your crafting ability? It would be at least more thematic if it gave a discount on the raw materials when crafting them item. Then, at least, you would craft more efficiently.
I wish they would listen to peoples complaints on some of these things and change them. Crafter could be decent. One at least make it 4 tools, allow it be from the whole artisan tool list. When its 3 I'm like take skilled and you can get any artisan tool and pick a full skill if you want. And maybe change fast crafter to something like midnight oil you can spend X time of your long rest crafting while still gaining the benefit of the long rest. Or Fast crafter you can craft objects in half the time it would normally take. Fast crafter currently is just lame.
The discount on items isn't bad though in games where you are cash strapped.
I am trying to explore whether or not Artisan/Crafter is simply misunderstood. Ultimately DMs can make house rules. To me the language is vague enough I would allow Mending to fix fast craft items, but probably with the limitation that the items remained low quality and would break again, rather than becoming permanent.
Probably a moot point, but….
Artisan Background you do get to pick 4, but if you take crafter later you only get 3. One of the four is “any.”
I have a larger build concept in mind but wanted to test this Mending + Fast Craft concept here in the forums. Naturally, a new idea meets some opposition.
I am by no means suggesting that Mending is Fabricate. Fabricate is creating something new from raw materials. Mending repairs something that already exists. Fabricate is also on a much larger scale.
You want free permanent objects from a Cantrip. That's what you want. Fabricate is the closest spell to your desired result.
In order to say an object “cannot be repaired” you have to add words to the text of Fast Crafting that simply aren’t there. The text merely says “falls apart.”
Quite the opposite. You need Fast Crafting to either say that it can be repaired, which it doesn't, or you need it describe the damage as breaks and tears so that it is something Mending can address, which it does not. Mending cannot restore an item from Fast Crafting and make it a permanent item. You will have to buy it or craft it for real.
I would argue that it is a House Rule that a “fall apart” item can not be repaired, because literally every child with legos knows how to fix a thing they dropped.
The language is vague. To say mending cannot mend a non-magical item like a quarterstaff just because it was made fast seems ridiculous.
It is not even really a problem for game balance either because at best you would have a crate of common items that could be purchased at any store, except they keep falling apart. This is the quintessential Tinker situation.
This isn't Legos. The language isn't vague. Mending is fine. Crafter is a terrible feat.
Fabricate is a spell of much grander scale (15 feet) and creates new items.
Fast Craft is something done with artisan tools and mending can repair broken things. Nothing in the text of fast craft says that the items cannot be repaired.
While I agree that hit points of constructs restored by mending might be a feature of the creature rather than of the mending spell, I don’t think that applies to fast craft objects. Fast craft objects are not creatures but objects made by a humanoid hand. The intended use of mending was to repair items that have broken or fallen apart, within 1 cubit foot. The object itself does not have to fit within the cubic foot, just the area repaired.
It is your own personal House Rule that adds the language “can never be repaired” or “object is destroyed.” What it says is “falls apart” and this language is not so specific as to say it can never be repaired.
My vision of Fast Craft + Mending is essentially a tinker character with a box of junk he can quickly slap together to make common items to fit the situation. Mending would fix a broken quarterstaff. It should be able to fix a broken fast craft quarterstaff. This doesn’t break the game. Anyone looking at it can tell it is of poor design. But that is the beauty of it. Only the tinker can use his tool box.
By Day 30, 30 tool components from the daily fall aparts, available for 24 hours at need with a little magical mending. But financially worthless, can’t be sold, and can only be mended by the Artisan themselves.
The Junk Tool Box.
Fabricate is something far bigger and more powerful.
Fabricate is a spell of much grander scale (15 feet) and creates new items.
Fast Craft is something done with artisan tools and mending can repair broken things. Nothing in the text of fast craft says that the items cannot be prepared.
The scale of Fabricate is not really relevant. Fast Craft also creates new items. Quarterstaffs, Tents, and Ladders are not small things and Fast Craft creates the items from nothing. You do not have to have anything with you other than the appropriate tools. Mending can repair breaks, but Fast Craft doesn't leave you with an object at all once the time is up. It's just gone. That's what "falls apart" means. An object that came from nothing goes back to nothing. There is nothing for Mending to mend because there is nothing for Mending to target. Ashes to ashes and dust to dust, the quarterstaff that you conjured with Woodcarver's Tools and positive thinking is now gone, but you can conjure another one.
It is your own personal House Rule that adds the language “can never be repaired” or “object is destroyed.” What it says is “falls apart” and this language is not so specific as to say it can never be repaired.
No, it's not. I understand you want Crafter to be worthwhile, but it's not. It's not your fault. It's just that bad. It creates an object from nothing and after your next long rest, it's gone, not broken in two, gone. It has to say it can be repaired in order for it to be repaired. It has to say it is broken. It has to say the object is still there. It says the opposite. It says it falls apart.
You do not have to any raw materials at all for Fast Crafter. However, for discussion's sake, let's say that you take some pieces of fabric, thread, and some wood poles and Fast Craft a Tent. After your next Long Rest, it falls apart and you don't have a broken tent, you have some unbroken pieces of fabric, unbroken thread, and some unbroken wood poles. There is nothing for Mending to fix.
My vision of Fast Craft + Mending is essentially a tinker character with a box of junk he can quickly slap together to make common items to fit the situation. Mending would fix a broken quarterstaff. It should be able to fix a broken fast craft quarterstaff. This doesn’t break the game. Anyone looking at it can tell it is of poor design. But that is the beauty of it. Only the tinker can use his tool box.
Mending can fix a break in a quarterstaff. It cannot remake an object from nothing. Crafter is absolutely an example of poor design. It's not a matter of whether it would break the game. The purpose of this forum is to discuss RAW and RAI, however stupid it sometimes is. I am not discouraging you from house ruling the Crafter feat. Feel free. However, the notion of restoring items from Fast Craft with Mending to create a stockpile of persistent free gear is not RAW or RAI.
By Day 30, 30 tool components from the daily fall aparts, available for 24 hours at need with a little magical mending. But financially worthless, can’t be sold, and can only be mended by the Artisan themselves.
I'm sorry, but I am not sure where you are getting 30 things falling apart after 30 days.
Fabricate is a spell of much grander scale (15 feet) and creates new items.
Fast Craft is something done with artisan tools and mending can repair broken things. Nothing in the text of fast craft says that the items cannot be prepared.
The scale of Fabricate is not really relevant. Fast Craft also creates new items. Quarterstaffs, Tents, and Ladders are not small things and Fast Craft creates the items from nothing. You do not have to have anything with you other than the appropriate tools. Mending can repair breaks, but Fast Craft doesn't leave you with an object at all once the time is up. It's just gone. That's what "falls apart" means. An object that came from nothing goes back to nothing. There is nothing for Mending to mend because there is nothing for Mending to target. Ashes to ashes and dust to dust, the quarterstaff that you conjured with Woodcarver's Tools and positive thinking is now gone, but you can conjure another one.
It is your own personal House Rule that adds the language “can never be repaired” or “object is destroyed.” What it says is “falls apart” and this language is not so specific as to say it can never be repaired.
No, it's not. I understand you want Crafter to be worthwhile, but it's not. It's not your fault. It's just that bad. It creates an object from nothing and after your next long rest, it's gone, not broken in two, gone. It has to say it can be repaired in order for it to be repaired. It has to say it is broken. It has to say the object is still there. It says the opposite. It says it falls apart.
You do not have to any raw materials at all for Fast Crafter. However, for discussion's sake, let's say that you take some pieces of fabric, thread, and some wood poles and Fast Craft a Tent. After your next Long Rest, it falls apart and you don't have a broken tent, you have some unbroken pieces of fabric, unbroken thread, and some unbroken wood poles. There is nothing for Mending to fix.
My vision of Fast Craft + Mending is essentially a tinker character with a box of junk he can quickly slap together to make common items to fit the situation. Mending would fix a broken quarterstaff. It should be able to fix a broken fast craft quarterstaff. This doesn’t break the game. Anyone looking at it can tell it is of poor design. But that is the beauty of it. Only the tinker can use his tool box.
Mending can fix a break in a quarterstaff. It cannot remake an object from nothing. Crafter is absolutely an example of poor design. It's not a matter of whether it would break the game. The purpose of this forum is to discuss RAW and RAI, however stupid it sometimes is. I am not discouraging you from house ruling the Crafter feat. Feel free. However, the notion of restoring items from Fast Craft with Mending to create a stockpile of persistent free gear is not RAW or RAI.
By Day 30, 30 tool components from the daily fall aparts, available for 24 hours at need with a little magical mending. But financially worthless, can’t be sold, and can only be mended by the Artisan themselves.
I'm sorry, but I am not sure where you are getting 30 things falling apart after 30 days.
I think you are treating Fast Crafting like a conjuration spell but it is not. It is, essentially, crafting an item from “scraps” not from nothing. It can only happen at the end of a long rest and only if you have the tools. It is not from nothing. Included with said tools is scraps (conceptually) or components required from a store. Wood is required for using wood crafting. So you might make the case that the regular crafting rules apply along with costs and materials, but the time is sped up with the penalty of the daily destruction.
Fast crafting works just like normal crafting, except its time is sped up. You still need the materials on hand from a store or from the environment.
Embedded within Fast Crafting is all of the usual crafting rules and language except the trade off of time spent crafting vs durability.
So Mending applies. Fast crafting is just crafting…. but fast. It is not Creatio Ex Nihilo or the Wish spell. It is sloppy work that doesn’t last, and should be capable of repairs.
The 30 days thing is about how you can craft 1 thing per day but instead of taking all day it is very fast.
I think you are treating Fast Crafting like a conjuration spell but it is not. It is, essentially, crafting an item from “scraps” not from nothing.
Where in the feat's description does it say that you need scrap? You need Artisan's Tools associated with item and proficiency in those tools. That's it. You can be stark naked in the most sterile of clean rooms with not so much as a speck of dust and you can pick up Carpenter's Tools and produce a 10' ladder from nothing. It's not a spell, but it's not crafting; it is item conjuration; you produce it from nothing.
Included with said tools is scraps (conceptually) or components required from a store. Wood is required for using wood crafting.
That is nowhere in the feat. The components for a ladder cost 5 CP. You do not need 5 CP of anything to "Fast Craft" a Ladder. You do not need 1 GP of materials to "Fast Craft" an Iron Pot.
Embedded within Fast Crafting is all of the usual crafting rules and language except the trade off of time spent crafting vs durability.
If this were true, then you would be required to pay for the raw materials of the item only for the item to fall apart. With no statement that the materials are returned to you, they would be gone. This interpretation makes a bad feat even worse.
I think you are treating Fast Crafting like a conjuration spell but it is not. It is, essentially, crafting an item from “scraps” not from nothing.
Where in the feat's description does it say that you need scrap? You need Artisan's Tools associated with item and proficiency in those tools. That's it. You can be stark naked in the most sterile of clean rooms with not so much as a speck of dust and you can pick up Carpenter's Tools and produce a 10' ladder from nothing. It's not a spell, but it's not crafting; it is item conjuration; you produce it from nothing.
Included with said tools is scraps (conceptually) or components required from a store. Wood is required for using wood crafting.
That is nowhere in the feat. The components for a ladder cost 5 CP. You do not need 5 CP of anything to "Fast Craft" a Ladder. You do not need 1 GP of materials to "Fast Craft" an Iron Pot.
Embedded within Fast Crafting is all of the usual crafting rules and language except the trade off of time spent crafting vs durability.
If this were true, then you would be required to pay for the raw materials of the item only for the item to fall apart. With no statement that the materials are returned to you, they would be gone. This interpretation makes a bad feat even worse.
The 30 days thing is about how you can craft 1 thing per day but instead of taking all day it is very fast.
That doesn't follow. You have one thing from the Feat each day and at the end of 30 days, you have the one thing you picked for that day.
Okay so this is where we disagree. Here is the Fast Craft text again:
“Fast Crafting.When you finish a Long Rest, you can >>craft<< one piece of gear from the Fast Crafting table, provided you have the Artisan’s Tools associated with that item and have proficiency with those tools. The item lasts until you finish another Long Rest, at which point the item falls apart.”
The verb here is crafting. This is not a magical action. This is a modification of the crafting rules provided that you have the tools and proficiency with them.
Each object has a cost of materials following the crafting rules. This Crafter feat does not need to include all of the rules for crafting any more than a combat feat needs to include all of the rules for combat.
Those general rules are here:
“Crafting Nonmagical Items
To craft a nonmagical item, you need tools, raw materials, and time, each of which is detailed below. If you meet the requirements, you make the item, and you can use it or sell it at its normal price.
Tools
This chapter’s “Tools” section lists which tools are required to make certain items. The DM assigns required tools for items not listed there.
You must use the required tool to make an item and have proficiency with that tool. Anyone who helps you must also have proficiency with it.
Raw Materials
To make an item, you need raw materials worth half its purchase cost (round down). For example, you need 750 GP of raw materials to make Plate Armor, which sells for 1,500 GP. The DM determines whether appropriate raw materials are available.
Time
To determine how many days (working 8 hours a day) it takes to make an item, divide its purchase cost in GP by 10 (round a fraction up to a day). For example, you need 5 days to make a Heavy Crossbow, which sells for 50 GP.
If an item requires multiple days, the days needn’t be consecutive.
Characters can combine their efforts to shorten the crafting time. Divide the time needed to create an item by the number of characters working on it. Normally, only one other character can assist you, but the DM might allow more assistants.“
The crafter feat modifies the Time portion of these rules in Fast Crafting, and the cost portion of these rules with the cost bonus.
If you look under raw materials it says “DM determines if raw materials are available.”
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So this is not Creatio Ex Nihilo. This is crafting with a feat modification for time and price, for those that take the feat.
People are reading it all wrong because they are thinking it is a magical ability but it is not.
Fast Crafting is something players can do in a pinch if raw materials are available.
With the Artisan background in 2024 you get the Crafter feat and with it the ability to use certain tools to fast craft items each morning after a long rest, which falls apart within 24 hours.
Can you use the Mending cantrip to repair the broken fast craft item, and then make an additional fast craft item using the feat?
Basically, can a Fast Crafter slowly build up an entire “fast craft” box of gear, spending zero money, and simply repair the broken tools whenever they are needed? By Day 10, you have 10 pieces of gear and can keep adding more.
To me this is the solution to fix the problems many on Youtube and other venues see with the Crafter feat.
I am planning to write another forum post about an Artisan build at some point, but am wondering if this has already been ruled against by WotC?
No. Mending repairs a sing break or tear, not a completely destroyed object. It also cannot restore hit points to an object.
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You might be right. But, this is my line of thinking:
Here is the text of Fast Craft:
Fast Crafting. When you finish a Long Rest, you can craft one piece of gear from the Fast Crafting table, provided you have the Artisan’s Tools associated with that item and have proficiency with those tools. The item lasts until you finish another Long Rest, at which point the item falls apart.
I do not read “falls apart” as “completely destroyed.” I view it as breaking into 2-3 parts because it is poorly constructed…. not turning into a pile of dust. The fast crafting is not a magical action so it is not a magical destruction. The shovel breaks, the quarterstaff snaps, the ladder splinters, the tent rips, the jug leaks, etc etc.
So whether 1 cast or several casts, mending (which can repair even a magical item) should be able to repair a broken item one mend at a time.
Am I wrong?
I also know mending can actually restore hit points to robotic objects, so this “hitpoint comment” is really confusing to me.
At best, it falls apart into its component parts. It is not an object that is broken. The object no longer exists and you have some scrap that you can probably toss together after a Long Rest. The only way to keep the item going is to recraft it at the end of your next long rest. Even then, it's a new object.
Crafter is a terrible feat and should be avoided. You could potentially get some use out of the discount if you are buying expensive armor, but it will quickly be a waste of space. If you can retrain out of it, that would be the only saving grace. As of now, I believe the only way to do that is via Wish.
Now that Eberron Forge of the Artificer is out, there is a flat-out better option as long you have access to it. House Cannith Heir does basically the same thing as the Artisan Background but gives you Sleight of Hand instead of Persuasion and the Mark of Making Dragonmark feat instead of Crafter. There is no contest between the two. Even if you don't have access to it, the PHB has better options depending on what you are looking for. Crafter is an Origin Feat for people who think D&D will let them craft in a meaningful way and it won't. The feat is a trap.
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I understand your position and that is the position that the Youtubers make. I suspect Artisan is basically a default background for NPCs. However I think that there is more to it than meets the eye.
Nowhere in the text of the feat does it say a Fast Craft item cannot be repaired. It just says it falls apart. There are magic spells that do something similar, and the magic of the spell ends. But it is apples and oranges: Fast Crafting is not a magical action.
For instance, let’s say I had a single chain that was broken in two. The text of Mending says I could fix one broken link of the chain with a cast. But if it had multiple breaks, I would need multiple casts.
”Multiple Casts” + Non-Magical Item + Creator Knowledge: I can’t see a reason for why Fast Craft items could not be repaired by mending. The text does not explicitly say it cannot be repaired, it just says that it “falls apart.”
A construct has many moving parts and the mending cantrip repairs it and this involves much more complexity than mending a quarterstaff.
This is my line of thinking.
Mending works on fast crafts. The DnD community simply hasn’t connected the dots yet.
Nowhere does it say that the object breaks or tears. Mending cannot recraft an item. It is for a cloak that has a rip and similar repairs. If you want the object in hand for more than a day, you need to buy it or craft it. Mending can't do it. It can't restore a destroyed object. It can't recreate or reassemble an object from component parts. It cannot restore hit points to an object or creature.
No, it cannot. That is not in the description of Mending anywhere. If a creature restores hit points when Mending is cast on it, that is a special rule of the creature and not a function of Mending.
Fast Craft would need to say that the object breaks or tears or that it is repairable. Even then, the break or tear would have to be within the constraints of Mending and it would likely need to explicitly state how to repair it, whether by Mending or not.
After the time lapses, you don't have a broken object; you have, at best, a collection of components and "a collection of components" is not a valid target for Mending. Fabricate targets raw components and creates a permanent object. You want Mending, a cantrip, to do the same thing as a 4th level spell.
A chain with two broken links is a broken object.
It does not. A construct is a creature and cannot be targeted by Mending without a special rule. Autognome has a special rule that when Mending is cast on it, the Autognome can spend a hit die to regain hit points. That is not a property of Mending and does not apply to other constructs.
It does not. If you want to house rule it as doing so, it would make it less awful.
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Here is the mending text:
”This spell repairs a *single* break or tear in an object you touch, such as a broken chain link, two halves of a broken key, a torn cloak, or a leaking wineskin. As long as the break or tear is no larger than *1 foot in any dimension*, you mend it, leaving no trace of the former damage.
This spell can physically repair a magic item, but it can’t restore magic to such an object.”
Here is the text for fabricate:
”You convert raw materials into products of the same material. For example, you can fabricate a wooden bridge from a clump of trees, a rope from a patch of hemp, or clothes from flax or wool.
Choose raw materials that you can see within range. You can fabricate a Large or smaller object (contained within a 10-foot Cube or eight connected 5-foot Cubes) given a sufficient quantity of material. If you’re working with metal, stone, or another mineral substance, however, the fabricated object can be no larger than Medium (contained within a 5-foot Cube). The quality of any fabricated objects is based on the quality of the raw materials.
Creatures and magic items can’t be created by this spell. You also can’t use it to create items that require a high degree of skill—such as weapons and armor—unless you have proficiency with the type of Artisan’s Tools used to craft such objects.”
I am by no means suggesting that Mending is Fabricate. Fabricate is creating something new from raw materials. Mending repairs something that already exists. Fabricate is also on a much larger scale.
In order to say an object “cannot be repaired” you have to add words to the text of Fast Crafting that simply aren’t there. The text merely says “falls apart.”
I would argue that it is a House Rule that a “fall apart” item can not be repaired, because literally every child with legos knows how to fix a thing they dropped.
The language is vague. To say mending cannot mend a non-magical item like a quarterstaff just because it was made fast seems ridiculous.
It is not even really a problem for game balance either because at best you would have a crate of common items that could be purchased at any store, except they keep falling apart. This is the quintessential Tinker situation.
I am going to go with no. As I am not sure you even need materials to fast craft the items. You just need the tools and a long rest and somehow poof objects into existence. If you need the materials I am not sure what the point of it is as almost all of the items on the list are something you should be able to make over a long rest anyways. I mean crap a torch should take you 10 minutes tops. If it is intended to need materials as well then it reads like a list made by people who never worked with tools in there entire life. Oh my god you can make a torch during 8 hours of rest. So my assumption is you are making it out of effectively nothing. It isn't magical, but whatever you made that torch or ladder or block and tackle etc out of was scrap parts found in the environment that are barely held together by hope. And mending wont make chicken bones knotted together into a real ladder.
It technically does restore hit points with ships at least. I think they just don't really have much in the mechanics of hit points with objects generally. They exist but are not really intended to be used much. It is why breaking down doors is always resolved as a athletics test instead of a I did enough hit points in damage to break the lock system.
If so, that's a property of the ship, not the spell.
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You want free permanent objects from a Cantrip. That's what you want. Fabricate is the closest spell to your desired result.
Quite the opposite. You need Fast Crafting to either say that it can be repaired, which it doesn't, or you need it describe the damage as breaks and tears so that it is something Mending can address, which it does not. Mending cannot restore an item from Fast Crafting and make it a permanent item. You will have to buy it or craft it for real.
This isn't Legos. The language isn't vague. Mending is fine. Crafter is a terrible feat.
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Maybe. I think its just a reflection of how hit points are abstracted in objects. If a chair loses a leg you generally aren't thinking about it as its 15 hit points out of 20 chair. It is just a chair without a leg. But technically if a DM did drop its hit points by 5 when the leg broke off when it was fixed it would be at full hit points now. Its just not mechanically represented because they rarely use hit points for objects. Its just a stick that is in 2 pieces not a 0 hit point stick. But ships do track damage as hit points so they developed how many hit points mending would fix. 1d8+ability mod once per hour.
I wish they would listen to peoples complaints on some of these things and change them. Crafter could be decent. One at least make it 4 tools, allow it be from the whole artisan tool list. When its 3 I'm like take skilled and you can get any artisan tool and pick a full skill if you want. And maybe change fast crafter to something like midnight oil you can spend X time of your long rest crafting while still gaining the benefit of the long rest. Or Fast crafter you can craft objects in half the time it would normally take. Fast crafter currently is just lame.
The discount on items isn't bad though in games where you are cash strapped.
It's hard to change Crafter without stepping on Artificer. Fast Crafter is a worse Tinker's Magic, and I personally think the only good thing about Tinker's Magic is Mending. I would much rather have the old, unique effects, than being able to pull a general store item out of my unmentionables for it to disappear later. 5e has a strong disdain for crafting. It shows in the Crafter feat and it shows in the revised Artificer class. Crafting is something NPCs do, not players. As a huge fan of Artificers since they debuted, if you want to play a character that actively crafts, 5e isn't the system for you. Crafting is tacked on and feel begrudgingly allowed rather than a core feature.
I don't think that represents the core assumptions. You shouldn't have to run an abnormal campaign in order make a core feature decent. Even then, how does a discount on buying equipment showcase your crafting ability? It would be at least more thematic if it gave a discount on the raw materials when crafting them item. Then, at least, you would craft more efficiently.
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I am trying to explore whether or not Artisan/Crafter is simply misunderstood. Ultimately DMs can make house rules. To me the language is vague enough I would allow Mending to fix fast craft items, but probably with the limitation that the items remained low quality and would break again, rather than becoming permanent.
Probably a moot point, but….
Artisan Background you do get to pick 4, but if you take crafter later you only get 3. One of the four is “any.”
I have a larger build concept in mind but wanted to test this Mending + Fast Craft concept here in the forums. Naturally, a new idea meets some opposition.
Fabricate is a spell of much grander scale (15 feet) and creates new items.
Fast Craft is something done with artisan tools and mending can repair broken things. Nothing in the text of fast craft says that the items cannot be repaired.
While I agree that hit points of constructs restored by mending might be a feature of the creature rather than of the mending spell, I don’t think that applies to fast craft objects. Fast craft objects are not creatures but objects made by a humanoid hand. The intended use of mending was to repair items that have broken or fallen apart, within 1 cubit foot. The object itself does not have to fit within the cubic foot, just the area repaired.
It is your own personal House Rule that adds the language “can never be repaired” or “object is destroyed.” What it says is “falls apart” and this language is not so specific as to say it can never be repaired.
My vision of Fast Craft + Mending is essentially a tinker character with a box of junk he can quickly slap together to make common items to fit the situation. Mending would fix a broken quarterstaff. It should be able to fix a broken fast craft quarterstaff. This doesn’t break the game. Anyone looking at it can tell it is of poor design. But that is the beauty of it. Only the tinker can use his tool box.
By Day 30, 30 tool components from the daily fall aparts, available for 24 hours at need with a little magical mending. But financially worthless, can’t be sold, and can only be mended by the Artisan themselves.
The Junk Tool Box.
Fabricate is something far bigger and more powerful.
The scale of Fabricate is not really relevant. Fast Craft also creates new items. Quarterstaffs, Tents, and Ladders are not small things and Fast Craft creates the items from nothing. You do not have to have anything with you other than the appropriate tools. Mending can repair breaks, but Fast Craft doesn't leave you with an object at all once the time is up. It's just gone. That's what "falls apart" means. An object that came from nothing goes back to nothing. There is nothing for Mending to mend because there is nothing for Mending to target. Ashes to ashes and dust to dust, the quarterstaff that you conjured with Woodcarver's Tools and positive thinking is now gone, but you can conjure another one.
No, it's not. I understand you want Crafter to be worthwhile, but it's not. It's not your fault. It's just that bad. It creates an object from nothing and after your next long rest, it's gone, not broken in two, gone. It has to say it can be repaired in order for it to be repaired. It has to say it is broken. It has to say the object is still there. It says the opposite. It says it falls apart.
You do not have to any raw materials at all for Fast Crafter. However, for discussion's sake, let's say that you take some pieces of fabric, thread, and some wood poles and Fast Craft a Tent. After your next Long Rest, it falls apart and you don't have a broken tent, you have some unbroken pieces of fabric, unbroken thread, and some unbroken wood poles. There is nothing for Mending to fix.
Mending can fix a break in a quarterstaff. It cannot remake an object from nothing. Crafter is absolutely an example of poor design. It's not a matter of whether it would break the game. The purpose of this forum is to discuss RAW and RAI, however stupid it sometimes is. I am not discouraging you from house ruling the Crafter feat. Feel free. However, the notion of restoring items from Fast Craft with Mending to create a stockpile of persistent free gear is not RAW or RAI.
I'm sorry, but I am not sure where you are getting 30 things falling apart after 30 days.
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I think you are treating Fast Crafting like a conjuration spell but it is not. It is, essentially, crafting an item from “scraps” not from nothing. It can only happen at the end of a long rest and only if you have the tools. It is not from nothing. Included with said tools is scraps (conceptually) or components required from a store. Wood is required for using wood crafting. So you might make the case that the regular crafting rules apply along with costs and materials, but the time is sped up with the penalty of the daily destruction.
Fast crafting works just like normal crafting, except its time is sped up. You still need the materials on hand from a store or from the environment.
Embedded within Fast Crafting is all of the usual crafting rules and language except the trade off of time spent crafting vs durability.
So Mending applies. Fast crafting is just crafting…. but fast. It is not Creatio Ex Nihilo or the Wish spell. It is sloppy work that doesn’t last, and should be capable of repairs.
The 30 days thing is about how you can craft 1 thing per day but instead of taking all day it is very fast.
Where in the feat's description does it say that you need scrap? You need Artisan's Tools associated with item and proficiency in those tools. That's it. You can be stark naked in the most sterile of clean rooms with not so much as a speck of dust and you can pick up Carpenter's Tools and produce a 10' ladder from nothing. It's not a spell, but it's not crafting; it is item conjuration; you produce it from nothing.
That is nowhere in the feat. The components for a ladder cost 5 CP. You do not need 5 CP of anything to "Fast Craft" a Ladder. You do not need 1 GP of materials to "Fast Craft" an Iron Pot.
If this were true, then you would be required to pay for the raw materials of the item only for the item to fall apart. With no statement that the materials are returned to you, they would be gone. This interpretation makes a bad feat even worse.
That doesn't follow. You have one thing from the Feat each day and at the end of 30 days, you have the one thing you picked for that day.
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Okay so this is where we disagree. Here is the Fast Craft text again:
“Fast Crafting. When you finish a Long Rest, you can >>craft<< one piece of gear from the Fast Crafting table, provided you have the Artisan’s Tools associated with that item and have proficiency with those tools. The item lasts until you finish another Long Rest, at which point the item falls apart.”
The verb here is crafting. This is not a magical action. This is a modification of the crafting rules provided that you have the tools and proficiency with them.
Each object has a cost of materials following the crafting rules. This Crafter feat does not need to include all of the rules for crafting any more than a combat feat needs to include all of the rules for combat.
Those general rules are here:
“Crafting Nonmagical Items
To craft a nonmagical item, you need tools, raw materials, and time, each of which is detailed below. If you meet the requirements, you make the item, and you can use it or sell it at its normal price.
Tools
This chapter’s “Tools” section lists which tools are required to make certain items. The DM assigns required tools for items not listed there.
You must use the required tool to make an item and have proficiency with that tool. Anyone who helps you must also have proficiency with it.
Raw Materials
To make an item, you need raw materials worth half its purchase cost (round down). For example, you need 750 GP of raw materials to make Plate Armor, which sells for 1,500 GP. The DM determines whether appropriate raw materials are available.
Time
To determine how many days (working 8 hours a day) it takes to make an item, divide its purchase cost in GP by 10 (round a fraction up to a day). For example, you need 5 days to make a Heavy Crossbow, which sells for 50 GP.
If an item requires multiple days, the days needn’t be consecutive.
Characters can combine their efforts to shorten the crafting time. Divide the time needed to create an item by the number of characters working on it. Normally, only one other character can assist you, but the DM might allow more assistants.“
The crafter feat modifies the Time portion of these rules in Fast Crafting, and the cost portion of these rules with the cost bonus.
If you look under raw materials it says “DM determines if raw materials are available.”
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So this is not Creatio Ex Nihilo. This is crafting with a feat modification for time and price, for those that take the feat.
People are reading it all wrong because they are thinking it is a magical ability but it is not.
Fast Crafting is something players can do in a pinch if raw materials are available.