"Choose two Wizard spells from the Illusion school, each of which must be no higher than level 2, and add them to your spellbook for free.
In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Wizard spell from the Illusion school to your spellbook for free. The chosen spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots."
So, you get two Illusion spells of 1st or 2nd level as per the first sentence. And then, having just gained a new level of spells (2nd), you get to add another illusion spell to your spellbook? So three total?
My understanding: when you reach level 3, you add four spells to your spellbook, two of them thanks to the Savant feature.
From then on, thanks to the Savant feature, Wizards can add a spell from their chosen school to their spellbook whenever they gain access to a new level of spell slots in the Wizard class:
In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Wizard spell from the Evocation school to your spellbook for free. The chosen spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
Wizards now pick their subclass at level 3. But, an extra level of study has paid off! Their Savant features now allow them access to two free level 1 or level 2 spells of their associated school rather than a reduction of cost and time when copying new spells. Additionally, thanks to the new Savant feature, they get to add a spell from their chosen school to their spellbook each time they unlock a new level of spell slot in the Wizard class.
Yeah, I would assume the two at character level 3 are the "catchup" for your 1st level slots in addition to your newly gained 2nd level ones, and from then on you gain them at the listed rate.
My understanding: when you reach level 3, you add four spells to your spellbook, two of them thanks to the Savant feature.
From then on, thanks to the Savant feature, Wizards can add a spell from their chosen school to their spellbook whenever they gain access to a new level of spell slots in the Wizard class:
In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Wizard spell from the Evocation school to your spellbook for free. The chosen spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
Wizards now pick their subclass at level 3. But, an extra level of study has paid off! Their Savant features now allow them access to two free level 1 or level 2 spells of their associated school rather than a reduction of cost and time when copying new spells. Additionally, thanks to the new Savant feature, they get to add a spell from their chosen school to their spellbook each time they unlock a new level of spell slot in the Wizard class.
Their pre-release article doesn't help, because it says exactly what i said. You get two free spells at level 3, and a free spell each time you unlock a new level of spell slot, ... but that also triggers at level 3.
Getting 3 illusion spells at level 3 (+ the normal 2 for gaining a wizard level) would appear to be RAW? They never say 'each time they unlock a new level of spell slot afterthis level.
The language is plain. You get two spells of a specific school from your Savant feature at level 3. In addition to those, you gain two Wizard spells from any school. You do not gain 3 illusion spells plus two from any school.
So, you get two Illusion spells of 1st or 2nd level as per the first sentence. And then, having just gained a new level of spells (2nd), you get to add another illusion spell to your spellbook? So three total?
No, because that's not the order of events; by the time you are picking a subclass you are already a 3rd level wizard and thus already have 2nd level spells.
So, you get two Illusion spells of 1st or 2nd level as per the first sentence. And then, having just gained a new level of spells (2nd), you get to add another illusion spell to your spellbook? So three total?
No, because that's not the order of events; by the time you are picking a subclass you are already a 3rd level wizard and thus already have 2nd level spells.
I'm going to need a rules citation on that. All of new spell slots, new spells from gaining a wizard level, and choosing a subclass would seem to fall under 'class features', which is step 3 of gaining a level, so they'd all happen at the same time.
The language is plain. You get two spells of a specific school from your Savant feature at level 3. In addition to those, you gain two Wizard spells from any school. You do not gain 3 illusion spells plus two from any school.
Do you gain a new level of spell slots at 3rd wizard level level?
I agree, the language is plain, but it gives you two outright, and then gives you a third from gaining 2nd level spell slots. What's special about gaining 2nd level spell slots that's different from gaining 3rd level spell slots?
I'm going to need a rules citation on that. All of new spell slots, new spells from gaining a wizard level, and choosing a subclass would seem to fall under 'class features', which is step 3 of gaining a level, so they'd all happen at the same time.
All the same time has the same effect. You only get the bonus known spell if you gained the subclass feature before gaining the new level of spells.
I'm going to need a rules citation on that. All of new spell slots, new spells from gaining a wizard level, and choosing a subclass would seem to fall under 'class features', which is step 3 of gaining a level, so they'd all happen at the same time.
All the same time has the same effect. You only get the bonus known spell if you gained the subclass feature before gaining the new level of spells.
Shouldn't you choose the order of simultaneous effects?
Edit: if you were right, that would mean a 3rd level wizard couldn't actually choose 2nd level spells for his spellbook that level, because gaining new spells and gaining spell slots were simultaneous = doesn't have the slots when he chooses spells. Since that's obviously false, the wizard must be able to choose the sequence he gains class features OR simultaneous means you count as having all of the features for all the other choices already (rather than not having any of them for the other features).
I'm going to need a rules citation on that. All of new spell slots, new spells from gaining a wizard level, and choosing a subclass would seem to fall under 'class features', which is step 3 of gaining a level, so they'd all happen at the same time.
All the same time has the same effect. You only get the bonus known spell if you gained the subclass feature before gaining the new level of spells.
Shouldn't you choose the order of simultaneous effects?
No. You cannot choose your subclass before you are a 3rd level Wizard. You have to advance as a Wizard and gain all the effects of your new Wizard level. This includes spells and class features. At level 3 the class feature is a subclass feature. You choose and apply the subclass feature, but you have already gained 2nd level spells because you were first a 3rd level Wizard.
Your Spelllbook starts with six level 1 Wizard spells of your choice and whenever you gain a Wizard level after 1, add two Wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook.
At level 3, you choose two Wizard spells from the Illusion school, each of which must be no higher than level 2, and add them to your spellbook for free.In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Wizard spell from the Illusion school to your spellbook for free. The chosen spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
You wouldn't gain an extra Illusion spell at level 4, because you don't gain access to a new level of spell slots at level 4.
The idea that you don't gain a third extra Illusion spell at level 3 seems like a reasonable ruling but doesn't seem to be super well supported in the actual rules.
Getting 3 illusion spells at level 3 (+ the normal 2 for gaining a wizard level) would appear to be RAW? They never say 'each time they unlock a new level of spell slot afterthis level.
No, because that's not the order of events; by the time you are picking a subclass you are already a 3rd level wizard and thus already have 2nd level spells.
A lvl 3 Wizard gains a new spell slot level and have a feature that says that when that happens he gets to add a spell to his spellbook. Saying that you somehow gain your level 3 features in a certain order and thus one of those features doesn't work as specified seems like a bad argument to me.
Of course I can see the poor writing in the rules and realise that it is very possible that this allows for gaining one spell more than the designers intended. But this is a wizard so I really don't see the problem, it doesn't effect the number of spells he can prepare.
Saying that you somehow gain your level 3 features in a certain order and thus one of those features doesn't work as specified seems like a bad argument to me.
I think it's also worth pointing out that even if you accept the idea that the features at a particular level are granted in a specific order, there is nothing in the rules that actually specifies that order in this case, so it's equally valid to rule that it happens in the order that gives you another spell.
Upon Gaining a Level 3, Spellcasting is a feature you already have that gives you a new level of spell slots when at step 3 you get to Record New Class Features: Wizard Subclass & Illusion Savant meaning it will only give you a free Illusion spell when you gain access to a new level of spell slots at level 5.
Shouldn't you choose the order of simultaneous effects?
Not really, Simultaneous Effects is for when two or more things happen at the same time on a turn, such as game effects, not when you level up and upgrade existing class feature or gain new class feature.
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Illusion Savant:
"Choose two Wizard spells from the Illusion school, each of which must be no higher than level 2, and add them to your spellbook for free.
In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Wizard spell from the Illusion school to your spellbook for free. The chosen spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots."
So, you get two Illusion spells of 1st or 2nd level as per the first sentence. And then, having just gained a new level of spells (2nd), you get to add another illusion spell to your spellbook? So three total?
I can assume it's just two, since the intent seems to be one freebie per level. I have no idea what's actually intended, though.
My understanding: when you reach level 3, you add four spells to your spellbook, two of them thanks to the Savant feature.
From then on, thanks to the Savant feature, Wizards can add a spell from their chosen school to their spellbook whenever they gain access to a new level of spell slots in the Wizard class:
The pre-release article 2024 Wizard vs. 2014 Wizard: What’s New has also the next explanation:
Yeah, I would assume the two at character level 3 are the "catchup" for your 1st level slots in addition to your newly gained 2nd level ones, and from then on you gain them at the listed rate.
Their pre-release article doesn't help, because it says exactly what i said. You get two free spells at level 3, and a free spell each time you unlock a new level of spell slot, ... but that also triggers at level 3.
Getting 3 illusion spells at level 3 (+ the normal 2 for gaining a wizard level) would appear to be RAW? They never say 'each time they unlock a new level of spell slot after this level.
The language is plain. You get two spells of a specific school from your Savant feature at level 3. In addition to those, you gain two Wizard spells from any school. You do not gain 3 illusion spells plus two from any school.
No, because that's not the order of events; by the time you are picking a subclass you are already a 3rd level wizard and thus already have 2nd level spells.
I'm going to need a rules citation on that. All of new spell slots, new spells from gaining a wizard level, and choosing a subclass would seem to fall under 'class features', which is step 3 of gaining a level, so they'd all happen at the same time.
Do you gain a new level of spell slots at 3rd wizard level level?
I agree, the language is plain, but it gives you two outright, and then gives you a third from gaining 2nd level spell slots. What's special about gaining 2nd level spell slots that's different from gaining 3rd level spell slots?
All the same time has the same effect. You only get the bonus known spell if you gained the subclass feature before gaining the new level of spells.
Shouldn't you choose the order of simultaneous effects?
Edit: if you were right, that would mean a 3rd level wizard couldn't actually choose 2nd level spells for his spellbook that level, because gaining new spells and gaining spell slots were simultaneous = doesn't have the slots when he chooses spells. Since that's obviously false, the wizard must be able to choose the sequence he gains class features OR simultaneous means you count as having all of the features for all the other choices already (rather than not having any of them for the other features).
I think not. That also seems to be the consensus in the thread.
No. You cannot choose your subclass before you are a 3rd level Wizard. You have to advance as a Wizard and gain all the effects of your new Wizard level. This includes spells and class features. At level 3 the class feature is a subclass feature. You choose and apply the subclass feature, but you have already gained 2nd level spells because you were first a 3rd level Wizard.
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My houserulings.
Your Spelllbook starts with six level 1 Wizard spells of your choice and whenever you gain a Wizard level after 1, add two Wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook.
At level 3, you choose two Wizard spells from the Illusion school, each of which must be no higher than level 2, and add them to your spellbook for free.In addition, whenever you gain access to a new level of spell slots in this class, you can add one Wizard spell from the Illusion school to your spellbook for free. The chosen spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
Level 1: 6 spells (+6 any school)
Level 2: 8 spells (+2 any school)
Level 3: 12 spells (+2 any school + 2 Illusion)
Level 4: 15 spells (+2 any school)
Level 5: 17 spells (+2 any school + 1 Illusion)
Level 6: 19 spells (+2 any school)
Level 7: 22 spells (+2 any school + 1 Illusion)
etc.
EDIT to correct
You wouldn't gain an extra Illusion spell at level 4, because you don't gain access to a new level of spell slots at level 4.
The idea that you don't gain a third extra Illusion spell at level 3 seems like a reasonable ruling but doesn't seem to be super well supported in the actual rules.
pronouns: he/she/they
Yea I have to agree with that.
A lvl 3 Wizard gains a new spell slot level and have a feature that says that when that happens he gets to add a spell to his spellbook. Saying that you somehow gain your level 3 features in a certain order and thus one of those features doesn't work as specified seems like a bad argument to me.
Of course I can see the poor writing in the rules and realise that it is very possible that this allows for gaining one spell more than the designers intended. But this is a wizard so I really don't see the problem, it doesn't effect the number of spells he can prepare.
I think it's also worth pointing out that even if you accept the idea that the features at a particular level are granted in a specific order, there is nothing in the rules that actually specifies that order in this case, so it's equally valid to rule that it happens in the order that gives you another spell.
pronouns: he/she/they
Oh yeah your right, you only get a free Illusion spell you gain access to a new level of spell slots meaning Level 5/7/9/11/13/15/17
Upon Gaining a Level 3, Spellcasting is a feature you already have that gives you a new level of spell slots when at step 3 you get to Record New Class Features: Wizard Subclass & Illusion Savant meaning it will only give you a free Illusion spell when you gain access to a new level of spell slots at level 5.
Not really, Simultaneous Effects is for when two or more things happen at the same time on a turn, such as game effects, not when you level up and upgrade existing class feature or gain new class feature.