I'm rolling a Swashbuckler and wanted a way to move enemies to help enable sneak attacks. I was looking at Magic Initiate for Lightning Lure or Thorn Whip, but they wouldn't use Charisma for the spellcasting modifier. Are there any other options? Telekinetic would allow for 5 ft., but I don't think that would necessarily split enemies up enough to reliably create that necessary distance.
Consider Booming blade and your choice of Lighting lure (Wizard) or Thorn Whip (Artificer).
Booming blade works well with Fancy Footwork and either spell. Thorn whip is more often to do the damage (attack rather than strength save), but does less damage (1d6 vs 1d8) and does not work on Huge + creatures.
But neither of those use Charisma.
If you really want the Charisma, then consider Booming Blade (Sorcerer) and get Thunderwave as a first level spell via Sorceror. That spell pushes people and you can use Charisma for the Sorcerer spells.
I've taken both of your advice and landed on Warlock for Booming Blade, Lightning Lure and Hex!
Go hexblade for the curse.
You could also consider sorcerer. 3 levels for metamagic and you can quicken the cantrips to still get a melee attack same turn.
Absolutely WORST advice around. He is NOT trying to multi-class, he wants to spend a feat and go full Rogue.
Mult-classing from Rogue into Warlock is a huge waste after you already took Magic Initiate (Warlock spells). Stupidest Idea around.
As for forgetting about the feat and simply multi-classing into Warlock, spending 3 levels to get either Hexblade or Sorceror is not worth the loss of 2d6 sneak attack, delaying all the great rogue abilities, and certainly is NOT worth Elusive, extra feat, nor the Stroke of Luck.
I've taken both of your advice and landed on Warlock for Booming Blade, Lightning Lure and Hex!
Go hexblade for the curse.
You could also consider sorcerer. 3 levels for metamagic and you can quicken the cantrips to still get a melee attack same turn.
Absolutely WORST advice around. He is NOT trying to multi-class, he wants to spend a feat and go full Rogue.
Mult-classing from Rogue into Warlock is a huge waste after you already took Magic Initiate (Warlock spells). Stupidest Idea around.
As for forgetting about the feat and simply multi-classing into Warlock, spending 3 levels to get either Hexblade or Sorceror is not worth the loss of 2d6 sneak attack, delaying all the great rogue abilities, and certainly is NOT worth Elusive, extra feat, nor the Stroke of Luck.
Oh. Yeah, I may have misunderstood him. And obviously you would multiclass instead of taking the feat. You are right about taking both being a waste.
For warlock, just 1 level would get him everything he wanted and more. Stroke of luck is cool, but with expertise and reliable talent, I'm sure any rogue can make due (it is only once per rest anyway). The rogue gets an extra ASI so 2-3 level dips are safer than most other classes (and they were going to take a feat instead anyway). And elusive is nice, not required, and if we are talking about multiclassing, there are level 2 spells that more than make up for it.
Lastly, about the 1-2d6 sneak attack damage, since the suggestion was to make getting sneak attacks easier plus bonus damage, it more than balances out.
I'm a big advocate for 1-3 level multiclass dips as the low level features are very easy to justify against (relatively mediocre) high level features. The last good class feature is usually gotten between 14-18 level (in this case subclass capstone as evasion and reliable talent are gotten much earlier) and every thing that comes after is bonus (and an ASI).
But, you should only multiclass early if you know you really want to.
I'm rolling a Swashbuckler and wanted a way to move enemies to help enable sneak attacks. I was looking at Magic Initiate for Lightning Lure or Thorn Whip, but they wouldn't use Charisma for the spellcasting modifier. Are there any other options? Telekinetic would allow for 5 ft., but I don't think that would necessarily split enemies up enough to reliably create that necessary distance.
Lightning Lure is both a Sorcerer and a Warlock spell, so it should be fine.
It would require multi-classing, but Eldritch Blast with Repelling and Pulling invocations would also achieve that effect.
However, if you just want to trigger Sneak Attack, you may consider Find Familiar for the Help action.
Consider Booming blade and your choice of Lighting lure (Wizard) or Thorn Whip (Artificer).
Booming blade works well with Fancy Footwork and either spell. Thorn whip is more often to do the damage (attack rather than strength save), but does less damage (1d6 vs 1d8) and does not work on Huge + creatures.
But neither of those use Charisma.
If you really want the Charisma, then consider Booming Blade (Sorcerer) and get Thunderwave as a first level spell via Sorceror. That spell pushes people and you can use Charisma for the Sorcerer spells.
I've taken both of your advice and landed on Warlock for Booming Blade, Lightning Lure and Hex!
Go hexblade for the curse.
You could also consider sorcerer. 3 levels for metamagic and you can quicken the cantrips to still get a melee attack same turn.
Very interesting suggestion! I'll give that a look, thank you!
Yeah, he is not multi-classing, and I strongly suggest you do NO
Absolutely WORST advice around. He is NOT trying to multi-class, he wants to spend a feat and go full Rogue.
Mult-classing from Rogue into Warlock is a huge waste after you already took Magic Initiate (Warlock spells). Stupidest Idea around.
As for forgetting about the feat and simply multi-classing into Warlock, spending 3 levels to get either Hexblade or Sorceror is not worth the loss of 2d6 sneak attack, delaying all the great rogue abilities, and certainly is NOT worth Elusive, extra feat, nor the Stroke of Luck.
Oh. Yeah, I may have misunderstood him. And obviously you would multiclass instead of taking the feat. You are right about taking both being a waste.
For warlock, just 1 level would get him everything he wanted and more. Stroke of luck is cool, but with expertise and reliable talent, I'm sure any rogue can make due (it is only once per rest anyway). The rogue gets an extra ASI so 2-3 level dips are safer than most other classes (and they were going to take a feat instead anyway). And elusive is nice, not required, and if we are talking about multiclassing, there are level 2 spells that more than make up for it.
Lastly, about the 1-2d6 sneak attack damage, since the suggestion was to make getting sneak attacks easier plus bonus damage, it more than balances out.
I'm a big advocate for 1-3 level multiclass dips as the low level features are very easy to justify against (relatively mediocre) high level features. The last good class feature is usually gotten between 14-18 level (in this case subclass capstone as evasion and reliable talent are gotten much earlier) and every thing that comes after is bonus (and an ASI).
But, you should only multiclass early if you know you really want to.