Just turned level 3 with an aberrant mind sorc and am planning level 4. I'm planning on picking up telekinetic feat, the question I have is if the extra range on mage hand is worth it or would a different cantrip be better?
Right now he has a 19 Cha and the telekinetic feat fits nicely with the aberrant mind so I'm committed to that. His current cantrip list is Fire Bolt, Light, Mind Sliver, Minor Illusion, Mold Earth and Shape Water. The other main options I'm considering are Prestidigitation or Mending. The party has a warlock with Prestidigitation and a cleric but I'm not sure if they have Mending or not. I'm also playing with the idea of Gust or Control Flames simply because I like the idea of having telekinetic control of the elements. Prestidigitation sounds fun because with Shape Water he could make popsicles!
Anyway, is the extra range really that helpful over the added cantrip?
The teleknethic feat give's mage hand cantrip or increase its range if you already have it. It didn't let you choose for another cantrip by RAW, since giving that cantrip to your character is a mechanical mean to the telekinese you are having access. And since your list does not have it, you should just get access to without need on components but with no 30ft. extra range.
If your DM allow you to choose other than this cantrip, thats up to him/her to say how it would work (if it would increase the renge or what) but I don't see fit on having "telekinesis" without that mage hand.
Edit
Or you meant to choose a cantrip and the feat and wants to know if its worth to choose the mage hand just to improve its range? In that case, I think it doesn't worth the extra range if you can choose to get two different cantrips that would give you "tools" for different situations.
You’re going to find that you have more Cantrips than you’ll use and there are a few traps that have a 30’ radius. The extra 30’ for Mage Hand will let you trigger those traps from safety without risking taking damage or being poisoned. I’d go with the extra range.
Currently using this feat as well and the 60' has come up quite a bit. I also really enjoy the push/pull mechanic to rearrange the battlefield just enough to help with action economy for other characters. I have pushed a fighter off of the other caster so they did not have to disengage, pulled a target into a better position so Dissonant Whispers triggered a couple extra AoO, and in general carried a torch far enough away to be an actual distraction so we could evade a very dangerous encounter with a party of orcs that were hunting us by our light allowing us to flank and ambush a lot easier.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Or you meant to choose a cantrip and the feat and wants to know if its worth to choose the mage hand just to improve its range? In that case, I think it doesn't worth the extra range if you can choose to get two different cantrips that would give you "tools" for different situations.
Yeah, I guess I could have spelled that out in the OP. Sorcerers get a cantrip at 4th level. So the question was to take mage hand as my level 4 cantrip then increase the distance with telekinetic or take a different cantrip.
Or you meant to choose a cantrip and the feat and wants to know if its worth to choose the mage hand just to improve its range? In that case, I think it doesn't worth the extra range if you can choose to get two different cantrips that would give you "tools" for different situations.
Yeah, I guess I could have spelled that out in the OP. Sorcerers get a cantrip at 4th level. So the question was to take mage hand as my level 4 cantrip then increase the distance with telekinetic or take a different cantrip.
Without a house rule, doubling Mage Hand's range does nothing, whether you do it with the Distant Spell metamagic or the Telekinetic feat, because the hand evaporates at more than 30 feet from you, regardless of the spell's range.
If your DM house-rules this to be different, you should be able to work out for yourself what's most valuable to you by considering the utility of applying Distant Spell to Mage Hand all the time, as opposed to whatever other cantrip you were considering.
You already have 6 cantrips, so I'm assuming one of them is racial. I don't know the constraints of your racial cantrip, but Message is one of the more useful cantrips you haven't got. For some reason you have 6 sorcerer cantrips. Are you a high elf? If you are, Toll the Dead is better than Fire Bolt - but also, why are you taking Light? If you're any other race, your cantrip is probably static and can't be changed, so we have to work with what you have.
Gust is easily the worst of the four elemental control cantrips and Prestidigitation doesn't do most of the things people think it can do. Mending is also a source of widespread confusion - it's really just Sovereign Glue in cantrip form and fundamentally can't repair things on its own beyond that, even if you do encounter broken objects.
Or you meant to choose a cantrip and the feat and wants to know if its worth to choose the mage hand just to improve its range? In that case, I think it doesn't worth the extra range if you can choose to get two different cantrips that would give you "tools" for different situations.
Yeah, I guess I could have spelled that out in the OP. Sorcerers get a cantrip at 4th level. So the question was to take mage hand as my level 4 cantrip then increase the distance with telekinetic or take a different cantrip.
Without a house rule, doubling Mage Hand's range does nothing, whether you do it with the Distant Spell metamagic or the Telekinetic feat, because the hand evaporates at more than 30 feet from you, regardless of the spell's range.
The feat literally say it increases the mage hand range by 30 ft. It it didn't actually do that then it wouldn't say it.
Having a 60 ft range invisible mage hand is blinking awesome, there is so much you can do with it.
Or you meant to choose a cantrip and the feat and wants to know if its worth to choose the mage hand just to improve its range? In that case, I think it doesn't worth the extra range if you can choose to get two different cantrips that would give you "tools" for different situations.
Yeah, I guess I could have spelled that out in the OP. Sorcerers get a cantrip at 4th level. So the question was to take mage hand as my level 4 cantrip then increase the distance with telekinetic or take a different cantrip.
Without a house rule, doubling Mage Hand's range does nothing, whether you do it with the Distant Spell metamagic or the Telekinetic feat, because the hand evaporates at more than 30 feet from you, regardless of the spell's range.
If your DM house-rules this to be different, you should be able to work out for yourself what's most valuable to you by considering the utility of applying Distant Spell to Mage Hand all the time, as opposed to whatever other cantrip you were considering.
You already have 6 cantrips, so I'm assuming one of them is racial. I don't know the constraints of your racial cantrip, but Message is one of the more useful cantrips you haven't got. For some reason you have 6 sorcerer cantrips. Are you a high elf? If you are, Toll the Dead is better than Fire Bolt - but also, why are you taking Light? If you're any other race, your cantrip is probably static and can't be changed, so we have to work with what you have.
Gust is easily the worst of the four elemental control cantrips and Prestidigitation doesn't do most of the things people think it can do. Mending is also a source of widespread confusion - it's really just [magicitem]Sovereign Glue[/spell] in cantrip form and fundamentally can't repair things on its own beyond that, even if you do encounter broken objects.
Yeah, light is from Aasimar, mind sliver is from Aberrant mind. And then Aberrant mind has something similar to message, though fairly different in its specific mechanics.
Telepathic Speech
You can form a telepathic connection between your mind and the mind of another. As a bonus action, choose one creature you can see within 30 feet of you. You and the chosen creature can speak telepathically with each other while the two of you are within a number of miles of each other equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of 1 mile). To understand each other, you each must speak mentally in a language the other knows.
The telepathic connection lasts for a number of minutes equal to your sorcerer level. It ends early if you are incapacitated or die or if you use this ability to form a connection with a different creature
I am leaning towards the extended mage hand right now. But I think I should check with the DM just to be sure he's not going to RAW the fairly obvious oversight on the range.
It is so silly to focus on the line of text that is only written due to the base abilities range only being 30 feet.
"The hand vanishes if it is ever more than 30 feet away from you or if you cast this spell again."
It would make the extended ability impossible to use to its full effects. The 30 foot text would be expanded to 60 feet based on the special adjustment of the telekinetic feat.
"If you already know this spell, its range increases by 30 feet when you cast it."
This line of text from the telekinetic feat extends ALL ranges by 30 feet allowing you to use the 60 foot range. The only effect I would question is the bonus action shove having an extended range as well. My questions have always been whether a player needs to have a mage hand active and that is what causes the push or is it a different force acting as a sudden expulsion of force conjured by manipulating the cantrips effects. If it is the second method, does that mean you would be casting Mage Hand at that moment which would cancel an existing Mage Hand you may be using?
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
It is so silly to focus on the line of text that is only written due to the base abilities range only being 30 feet.
"The hand vanishes if it is ever more than 30 feet away from you or if you cast this spell again."
It would make the extended ability impossible to use to its full effects. The 30 foot text would be expanded to 60 feet based on the special adjustment of the telekinetic feat.
"If you already know this spell, its range increases by 30 feet when you cast it."
This line of text from the telekinetic feat extends ALL ranges by 30 feet allowing you to use the 60 foot range. The only effect I would question is the bonus action shove having an extended range as well. My questions have always been whether a player needs to have a mage hand active and that is what causes the push or is it a different force acting as a sudden expulsion of force conjured by manipulating the cantrips effects. If it is the second method, does that mean you would be casting Mage Hand at that moment which would cancel an existing Mage Hand you may be using?
By that logic, Distant Spell would also let Acid Splash hit two targets within ten feet of each other. That's just not how spells work - modifying a spell's range only modifies its range, and anything it does which depends on that range will necessarily also change. Mage Hand could have been worded to have the Hand dissipate if out of range, but it wasn't. Neither Mage Hand nor Acid Splash have their rules which require measuring distances independently of their range be modified when the spell's range changes.
This is also why e.g. range modifiers won't do anything to Misty Step. Mage Hand targets a point in space within range to manifest the hand, and Misty Step targets the caster. Then, once that's done, both spells have a rule requiring you to measure 30 feet, which just isn't dependent on the spell's range.
While it is indeed RAW that the Mage Hand vanishes beyond 30 feet, it is an antagonistic reading of the rules and certainly not RAI.
Explicitly granting an increased range to the spell, only to have the Mage Hand vanish the instant it appears, is just silly to me. Your mileage may vary, though.
Or you meant to choose a cantrip and the feat and wants to know if its worth to choose the mage hand just to improve its range? In that case, I think it doesn't worth the extra range if you can choose to get two different cantrips that would give you "tools" for different situations.
Yeah, I guess I could have spelled that out in the OP. Sorcerers get a cantrip at 4th level. So the question was to take mage hand as my level 4 cantrip then increase the distance with telekinetic or take a different cantrip.
Without a house rule, doubling Mage Hand's range does nothing, whether you do it with the Distant Spell metamagic or the Telekinetic feat, because the hand evaporates at more than 30 feet from you, regardless of the spell's range.
If your DM house-rules this to be different, you should be able to work out for yourself what's most valuable to you by considering the utility of applying Distant Spell to Mage Hand all the time, as opposed to whatever other cantrip you were considering.
You already have 6 cantrips, so I'm assuming one of them is racial. I don't know the constraints of your racial cantrip, but Message is one of the more useful cantrips you haven't got. For some reason you have 6 sorcerer cantrips. Are you a high elf? If you are, Toll the Dead is better than Fire Bolt - but also, why are you taking Light? If you're any other race, your cantrip is probably static and can't be changed, so we have to work with what you have.
Gust is easily the worst of the four elemental control cantrips and Prestidigitation doesn't do most of the things people think it can do. Mending is also a source of widespread confusion - it's really just Sovereign Glue in cantrip form and fundamentally can't repair things on its own beyond that, even if you do encounter broken objects.
Create Bonfire is a decent spell, but the Aberrant Mind sorcerer is already pretty heavy on concentration spells. And while Prestidigitation and Mending aren't mechanically that great, from a roleplaying perspective they're both fantastic.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Acid Splash's effect area is 5 ft, the spells range is 60. Yes its range would increase to 120 ft, but its AoE would not. That is indeed how spells work. Mage hand has a range of 30 ft and an effect of moving 30 ft after cast, lifting 10 lbs, etc. It would not allow the caster to lift 20 lbs. or move 60 ft after cast.
This is a pedantic discussion between RAW and RAI. Here have a feat with a nifty little add-on using implied language without realizing that every single thing needs to be spelled out perfectly.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
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Just turned level 3 with an aberrant mind sorc and am planning level 4. I'm planning on picking up telekinetic feat, the question I have is if the extra range on mage hand is worth it or would a different cantrip be better?
Right now he has a 19 Cha and the telekinetic feat fits nicely with the aberrant mind so I'm committed to that. His current cantrip list is Fire Bolt, Light, Mind Sliver, Minor Illusion, Mold Earth and Shape Water. The other main options I'm considering are Prestidigitation or Mending. The party has a warlock with Prestidigitation and a cleric but I'm not sure if they have Mending or not. I'm also playing with the idea of Gust or Control Flames simply because I like the idea of having telekinetic control of the elements. Prestidigitation sounds fun because with Shape Water he could make popsicles!
Anyway, is the extra range really that helpful over the added cantrip?
The teleknethic feat give's mage hand cantrip or increase its range if you already have it. It didn't let you choose for another cantrip by RAW, since giving that cantrip to your character is a mechanical mean to the telekinese you are having access. And since your list does not have it, you should just get access to without need on components but with no 30ft. extra range.
If your DM allow you to choose other than this cantrip, thats up to him/her to say how it would work (if it would increase the renge or what) but I don't see fit on having "telekinesis" without that mage hand.
Edit
Or you meant to choose a cantrip and the feat and wants to know if its worth to choose the mage hand just to improve its range? In that case, I think it doesn't worth the extra range if you can choose to get two different cantrips that would give you "tools" for different situations.
You’re going to find that you have more Cantrips than you’ll use and there are a few traps that have a 30’ radius. The extra 30’ for Mage Hand will let you trigger those traps from safety without risking taking damage or being poisoned. I’d go with the extra range.
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Currently using this feat as well and the 60' has come up quite a bit. I also really enjoy the push/pull mechanic to rearrange the battlefield just enough to help with action economy for other characters. I have pushed a fighter off of the other caster so they did not have to disengage, pulled a target into a better position so Dissonant Whispers triggered a couple extra AoO, and in general carried a torch far enough away to be an actual distraction so we could evade a very dangerous encounter with a party of orcs that were hunting us by our light allowing us to flank and ambush a lot easier.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Yeah, I guess I could have spelled that out in the OP. Sorcerers get a cantrip at 4th level. So the question was to take mage hand as my level 4 cantrip then increase the distance with telekinetic or take a different cantrip.
Without a house rule, doubling Mage Hand's range does nothing, whether you do it with the Distant Spell metamagic or the Telekinetic feat, because the hand evaporates at more than 30 feet from you, regardless of the spell's range.
If your DM house-rules this to be different, you should be able to work out for yourself what's most valuable to you by considering the utility of applying Distant Spell to Mage Hand all the time, as opposed to whatever other cantrip you were considering.
You already have 6 cantrips, so I'm assuming one of them is racial. I don't know the constraints of your racial cantrip, but Message is one of the more useful cantrips you haven't got. For some reason you have 6 sorcerer cantrips. Are you a high elf? If you are, Toll the Dead is better than Fire Bolt - but also, why are you taking Light? If you're any other race, your cantrip is probably static and can't be changed, so we have to work with what you have.
Other cantrips to consider, besides Message, are Create Bonfire, Dancing Lights, and Booming Blade, depending on your build.
Gust is easily the worst of the four elemental control cantrips and Prestidigitation doesn't do most of the things people think it can do. Mending is also a source of widespread confusion - it's really just Sovereign Glue in cantrip form and fundamentally can't repair things on its own beyond that, even if you do encounter broken objects.
Yeah, light is from Aasimar, mind sliver is from Aberrant mind. And then Aberrant mind has something similar to message, though fairly different in its specific mechanics.
I am leaning towards the extended mage hand right now. But I think I should check with the DM just to be sure he's not going to RAW the fairly obvious oversight on the range.
It is so silly to focus on the line of text that is only written due to the base abilities range only being 30 feet.
"The hand vanishes if it is ever more than 30 feet away from you or if you cast this spell again."
It would make the extended ability impossible to use to its full effects. The 30 foot text would be expanded to 60 feet based on the special adjustment of the telekinetic feat.
"If you already know this spell, its range increases by 30 feet when you cast it."
This line of text from the telekinetic feat extends ALL ranges by 30 feet allowing you to use the 60 foot range. The only effect I would question is the bonus action shove having an extended range as well. My questions have always been whether a player needs to have a mage hand active and that is what causes the push or is it a different force acting as a sudden expulsion of force conjured by manipulating the cantrips effects. If it is the second method, does that mean you would be casting Mage Hand at that moment which would cancel an existing Mage Hand you may be using?
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
The push/pull Bonus Action part is a separate ability that is not tied to Mage Hand. Otherwise it would state that you need to use the Mage Hand.
By that logic, Distant Spell would also let Acid Splash hit two targets within ten feet of each other. That's just not how spells work - modifying a spell's range only modifies its range, and anything it does which depends on that range will necessarily also change. Mage Hand could have been worded to have the Hand dissipate if out of range, but it wasn't. Neither Mage Hand nor Acid Splash have their rules which require measuring distances independently of their range be modified when the spell's range changes.
This is also why e.g. range modifiers won't do anything to Misty Step. Mage Hand targets a point in space within range to manifest the hand, and Misty Step targets the caster. Then, once that's done, both spells have a rule requiring you to measure 30 feet, which just isn't dependent on the spell's range.
While it is indeed RAW that the Mage Hand vanishes beyond 30 feet, it is an antagonistic reading of the rules and certainly not RAI.
Explicitly granting an increased range to the spell, only to have the Mage Hand vanish the instant it appears, is just silly to me. Your mileage may vary, though.
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Create Bonfire is a decent spell, but the Aberrant Mind sorcerer is already pretty heavy on concentration spells. And while Prestidigitation and Mending aren't mechanically that great, from a roleplaying perspective they're both fantastic.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Acid Splash's effect area is 5 ft, the spells range is 60. Yes its range would increase to 120 ft, but its AoE would not. That is indeed how spells work. Mage hand has a range of 30 ft and an effect of moving 30 ft after cast, lifting 10 lbs, etc. It would not allow the caster to lift 20 lbs. or move 60 ft after cast.
This is a pedantic discussion between RAW and RAI. Here have a feat with a nifty little add-on using implied language without realizing that every single thing needs to be spelled out perfectly.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.