In preparation for an upcoming campaign I am participating in, I went ahead and did some planning out for levels for the character I intend to be using (A Pact of the Chain Warlock with a Djinni Genie Patron.) I've never played a Warlock before, and did this due to Warlock's notoriously limited spell slots and spells learned, and was curious to see if anyone had any recommendations or changes they'd make to the build? At the end of the day I'm not trying to min-max by any means and just looking to have some fun, however would still like to remain viable at least to some degree. In tandem with that last mention, I'm trying not to venture too far into the Eldritch Horror-land of things like Hunger of Hadar, as my character is a bit too pure for magic like that I feel. That being said some more dubious morals spells are included on the list especially at later levels, as overall it's a very loose rule, I'd say. Also, their enhanced familiar is taking the form of a Pseudodragon, which is something I'd like to have it stick to being throughout the campaign.
(We're starting at level 3, so to summarize choices made up until that point...) Variant Human with the prodigy feat with stats of 8 Str, 14 Dex, 12 Con, 14 Int, 10 Wis, 16 Cha along with the noble background. The two Eldritch Invocations chosen so far are Voice and Investment of the Chain Master. (While technically not allowed as per RAW since we're starting at 3 the DM allowed both Chain Master invocations at base)
The following levels are roughly planned out as such (included with are my own personal notations at a few points of varying helpfulness)
Level 4: Charisma Increase to 18, Take Misty Step 2 level Spell, take prestidigitation cantrip
Level 5: Take Agonizing Blast Eldritch Invocation, Take Hypnotic Pattern 3 Level spell, Prof Increase to 3
Level 6: Gain Elemental Gift, Take Counterspell 3 level spell
Level 7: Take Gift of the Ever-Living Ones Eldritch Invocation, Take Greater Invisibility 4 Level Spell
Level 8: Charisma Increase to 20, Take Sickening Radiance 4 Level Spell
Level 9: Take Devil’s Sight Eldritch Invocation, Take Contact Other Plane 5 Level Spell, Prof Increases to 4
Level 10: Gain Sanctuary Vessel, Take Mage Hand Cantrip. (That’s it, but 11’s hype as hell)
Level 11: Gain Mystic Arcanum (Mass Suggestion), Take Scrying 5 Level Spell, Spell Slots increase to 3!
Level 12: Charisma Increase to 20, Take Eldritch Mind Eldritch Invocation. Re-evaluate life choices.
Level 13: Gain Mystic Arcanum (Plane Shift), Take Darkness 2 Level Spell, Prof Increases to 5.
Level 14: Gain Limited Wish (POG)
Level 15: Gain Mystic Arcanum (Feeblemind), Gain Seeming 5 Level Spell, Take Chains of Carceri Eldritch Invocation
Level 16: Gain Inspiring Leader Feat, re-evaluate life choices again and brace for Wish.
Level 17: Gain Mystic Arcanum (Wish), Gain Tongues 3 Level Spell, Spell Slots Increase to 4, Prof Increase to 6.
Level 18: Take Ghostly Gaze Eldritch Invocation.
Level 19: Intelligence Increase to 16, Take Dispel Magic 3 level spell. Prepare for the end by re-evaluating life choices.
Not sure what sort of advice you're looking for - e.g. you chose a suboptimal race, a suboptimal feat, and a suboptimal statline, and strictly speaking a suboptimal familiar, suboptimal invocations, and a suboptimal patron (this last is particularly unimportant - if you prefer the Djinn spells to the Dao ones and are willing to accept a slightly worse damage type, you do you; this is a game about having fun your way). Of course, you're still a Genielock, so as of level 17 you're the most powerful character in the game.
What sort of advice did you want? In terms of "viability", I'm not clear on your starting spell loadout, but I'll admit I have no clear idea of what role you're trying to fill in the party - you don't seem to have leaned into doing anything particularly well. Possibly the best advice I can give you is to pick something for your character to be good at - like all ttrpgs, 5E is more fun when there are situations where your character has a chance to be the most competent in the party at doing a job.
My current list of spells is Eldritch Blast, and Minor Illusion for cantrips.
Comprehend Languages, Thunderwave, and Hex for 1st Level.
Suggestion for 2nd Level.
I liked the idea of going Var. Human and taking a non-combat centered feat like Prodigy simply because it fit the character, this is also why Int is so high versus something like con, which would arguably be more valuable.
I probably should have clarified a bit better what I was looking for!
Overall I'm looking to mostly play around the idea of her desiring to meet her patron (A Noble Air Djinni living in a massive castle/library, which is also why the int's so high and why I have things like Contact Other Plane and the like on the list.) I think as a whole I'd like to mostly play out of combat support, while at least still having some viability in combat as a magical DPS. And yeah, I'm aware the Pseudodragon's suboptimal and cannot even go invisible, but I felt the Quasit or Imp didn't fit too well, and the idea of a Pseudodragon just seemed conceptually more interesting then a fey.
You mentioned taking Suboptimal Invocations and feats, while I'm definitely keeping prodigy as I think it fits the character well, do you think I'd be better off say...swapping Inspiring Leader to something like Spell Sniper? Also if you've any Eldritch Invocation recommendations I'd most certainly appreciate those too.
Overall I'm just looking for some fun spell, feat, or just general level up recommendations to see if anything may seem like fun without leaning too hard into the meta, but still remaining a party member viable within combat and out. I'm not too worried about being in meta by any means, which I think is quite obvious given my choices so far.
Unless you are the only caster who can take counterspell in your party, I wouldn’t learn that or dispel magic at all. You don’t have many spell slots, even if they do recharge on a short rest, so you aren’t going to be able to do much besides counterspell with your slots if you are in a situation where you can use it. The one advantage warlocks do have is always casting at their max level, so you’ll at least cast it at 5th level after level 9. There are some other spell choices you made that seem thematically interesting, though I’m not sure I understand the theme either.
I would suggest taking Darkness at level 9 with Devils Sight invocation for the classic darkness only you can see through combo. Take Darkness as soon as you can with or after getting Devils Sight. But talk to your group about it first so they know you are going black out areas routinely - not everyone likes that.
You may want to consider pushing Voice of the Chain Master back and pushing Agonizing Blast or Devils Sight up to 2. Which one depends on whether you plan to be mostly a ranged blaster or in melee early on, respectively.
Yeah...I was kind of hesitant on counterspell/dispell magic from the start, but they were so good I just kind of threw them on there. At the moment I'm the first to create a character for the campaign in question, so I don't know what the team comp will look like yet either.
As of now I'm thinking swapping the starting invocations to Devil's Sight, Investment of the Chain Master. Darkness is getting grabbed at level 4, Misty Step at 6 instead of 4. I bumped Voice of the Chain Master to 7.
Also, I'm loosely sticking to the theme of windy/thunder spells as per the Djinni patron, with the only real restriction being I'm trying not to delve too deep into the land of Eldritch Horrors, though I'd not object to a handful of them if there was some particularly interesting ones. I'd say I'd definitely also lean more towards buffing allies then de-buffing enemies (Hex being one of the few exceptions to this.) Given the idea of the Djinni patron being a bit of a closer pact/bond then a power stemming from a god I also found spells which would allow interaction with such an entity to be quite neat too, which is why I took things such as Plane Shift and Contact Other Plane. Plane Shift also being particularly interesting as it has combat usage as well. So the TLDR: The theme is a Magical DPS with some Djinni flair (Lightning/Thunder/Force damage) with a healthy dosage of buffing and fun out of combat options.
That’s helpful characterization, and I like all your changes. I get the planar spells now.
Purely for flavor, you could describe your Darkness spell as a dust devil that completely obscures vision in the same area. As long as it’s mechanically the same, it shouldn’t matter. That will go along with your theme. And it also makes sense that you can see through it then.
I liked the idea of going Var. Human and taking a non-combat centered feat like Prodigy simply because it fit the character, this is also why Int is so high versus something like con, which would arguably be more valuable.
FYI Variant Human is Tasha's Custom Lineage but strictly worse and Prodigy is Skill Expert but strictly worse, no matter what your intended design is. I'm not, like, telling you what to do, just explaining what I meant when I called your choices suboptimal. Changing to those choices will result in an identical character except that it's better at what you want it to be good at.
If it fits the character, you might consider asking your DM for a house rule (seeing as you already have at least one on you) allowing you to play Warlocks as Int-based. I've heard of other DMs allowing it, as it's a net nerf mechanically. If your character is supposed to be more smart than charismatic, this could let you make a "viable" Intlock. If you go with this, as per WOTC's class design philosophy, you should also change Warlocks to being proficient in Int saves (losing Cha saves). Do not change any other proficiencies. You'll also need to modify all of your invocations that specify "Charisma" to instead specify spellcasting ability.
Overall I'm looking to mostly play around the idea of her desiring to meet her patron (A Noble Air Djinni living in a massive castle/library, which is also why the int's so high and why I have things like Contact Other Plane and the like on the list.) I think as a whole I'd like to mostly play out of combat support, while at least still having some viability in combat as a magical DPS. And yeah, I'm aware the Pseudodragon's suboptimal and cannot even go invisible, but I felt the Quasit or Imp didn't fit too well, and the idea of a Pseudodragon just seemed conceptually more interesting then a fey.
Drop Voice of the Chain Master (your scout isn't invisible, so infinite range senses aren't nearly as valuable support) and Thunderwave, replacing them with Devil's Sight and Darkness, respectively. You'll be significantly better at Scouting, Tanking, and DPR.
You mentioned taking Suboptimal Invocations and feats, while I'm definitely keeping prodigy as I think it fits the character well, do you think I'd be better off say...swapping Inspiring Leader to something like Spell Sniper? Also if you've any Eldritch Invocation recommendations I'd most certainly appreciate those too.
Partially addressed above in my post, and I just realized you're missing a feat entirely (your choice at level 12 is invalid, as you plan to be CHA 20 at Level 8), but overall my recommendations for your 6 ASIs would be (I'll also modify your statline slightly); the order these happen in isn't particularly important if you decide you want a different order:
Custom Lineage: Cha 15->17, Int 14, Dex 13, Con 12, Wis 10, Str 8
Level 1: Skill Expert, not Prodigy. Charisma 18.
Level 4: Fey Touched or Telekinetic, Charisma 19.
Level 8: The other choice from level 4, Charisma 20.
Level 12: Moderately Armored, Dexterity 14.
Level 16: Inspiring Leader.
Level 19: You beat the game at level 17, so anything you want.
A slightly more extensive change to your statline lets me specify an additional feat productively:
Custom Lineage: Cha 15->17, Int 14, Dex 13, Con 13, Wis 8, Str 8
Level 1: Skill Expert, not Prodigy. Charisma 18.
Level 4: Fey Touched or Telekinetic, Charisma 19.
Level 8: The other choice from level 4, Charisma 20.
Level 12: Moderately Armored, Dexterity 14 or Resilient Constitution, Con 14.
Level 16: The other choice from level 12.
Level 19: Inspiring Leader.
I left Intelligence entirely intact since you emphasized it was important to you. A chainlock genielock should absolutely try their hardest to get their hands on Inspiring Leader.
Overall I'm just looking for some fun spell, feat, or just general level up recommendations to see if anything may seem like fun without leaning too hard into the meta, but still remaining a party member viable within combat and out. I'm not too worried about being in meta by any means, which I think is quite obvious given my choices so far.
I have no idea what the meta is, but I'll point out that 3 levels of Sorcerer mixed in can change your Warlock in some drastic and potentially fun ways, and you don't miss out on a lot from a level 20 perspective.
You’re an “archer” with a lot of magical tricks, not a spell caster. Eldritch Blast is your “bow”, but you’ll find that my description of what you do in combat is pretty accurate.
Invisibility so that you can turn your familiar invisible is very useful for the way you’ve built your warlock. Much more useful than Greater Invisibility in my opinion.
Unless you have a way to push/pull opponents into the Sickening Radiance, Banishment will be more useful as soon as you hit 9th level and it affects 2 opponents instead of 1 opponent.
You’ll be much more effective if you build your character with the other players. For example, Sickening Radiance and 2 PCs pushing opponents into the Sickening Radiance is much more powerful than you casting that spell by itself.
You can swap out one spell every time you level up. You’re not stuck with your initial spells. Use that to trade Misty Step for Thunder Step and later for Dimension Door. You’ll find other spells that you want to replace after you’ve been playing your warlock for a level or two.
Quindraco had lots of good points for mechanical improvements. But I will suggest a change from his order.
Since you want to go with a more support-oriented role, I recommend Inspiring Leader before Moderately Armored. At level 12 you’ll be dishing out 17 THP per short rest to up to six creatures (presumably you, your familiar, and up to four other party members). That’s a substantial support effect. It’s going to be really appreciated unless your party includes a replenishing THP subclass like Artillerist Artificer or Twilight Cleric that can’t stack with it.
I greatly appreciate all the advice! I'll definitely be looking into making most of the changes everyone mentioned, as the addition of feats such as Fey Touched, Telekentic, and Medium Armored open up quite a few fun possibilities and in-lore potential. I've also never really looked into Custom Lineage, so the discovery of that's also most certainly a welcome buff. While I enjoy the extra language and tool proficiency Prodigy gives it's hard to pass up Skill Expert's +1 in a stat.
The Choice between Moderately Armored and Leader is a tough one, as loosing the +1 to dex does mean I'll be out of a higher AC for quite a long while, though that is made up rather significantly for party-wide Temp. HP. I'll have to give it some thought.
I'd honestly forgotten about being able to replace spells each level, and somehow completely missed that I'd doubled up on my Charisma at 20.
In preparation for an upcoming campaign I am participating in, I went ahead and did some planning out for levels for the character I intend to be using (A Pact of the Chain Warlock with a Djinni Genie Patron.) I've never played a Warlock before, and did this due to Warlock's notoriously limited spell slots and spells learned, and was curious to see if anyone had any recommendations or changes they'd make to the build? At the end of the day I'm not trying to min-max by any means and just looking to have some fun, however would still like to remain viable at least to some degree. In tandem with that last mention, I'm trying not to venture too far into the Eldritch Horror-land of things like Hunger of Hadar, as my character is a bit too pure for magic like that I feel. That being said some more dubious morals spells are included on the list especially at later levels, as overall it's a very loose rule, I'd say. Also, their enhanced familiar is taking the form of a Pseudodragon, which is something I'd like to have it stick to being throughout the campaign.
(We're starting at level 3, so to summarize choices made up until that point...) Variant Human with the prodigy feat with stats of 8 Str, 14 Dex, 12 Con, 14 Int, 10 Wis, 16 Cha along with the noble background. The two Eldritch Invocations chosen so far are Voice and Investment of the Chain Master. (While technically not allowed as per RAW since we're starting at 3 the DM allowed both Chain Master invocations at base)
The following levels are roughly planned out as such (included with are my own personal notations at a few points of varying helpfulness)
Level 4: Charisma Increase to 18, Take Misty Step 2 level Spell, take prestidigitation cantrip
Level 5: Take Agonizing Blast Eldritch Invocation, Take Hypnotic Pattern 3 Level spell, Prof Increase to 3
Level 6: Gain Elemental Gift, Take Counterspell 3 level spell
Level 7: Take Gift of the Ever-Living Ones Eldritch Invocation, Take Greater Invisibility 4 Level Spell
Level 8: Charisma Increase to 20, Take Sickening Radiance 4 Level Spell
Level 9: Take Devil’s Sight Eldritch Invocation, Take Contact Other Plane 5 Level Spell, Prof Increases to 4
Level 10: Gain Sanctuary Vessel, Take Mage Hand Cantrip. (That’s it, but 11’s hype as hell)
Level 11: Gain Mystic Arcanum (Mass Suggestion), Take Scrying 5 Level Spell, Spell Slots increase to 3!
Level 12: Charisma Increase to 20, Take Eldritch Mind Eldritch Invocation. Re-evaluate life choices.
Level 13: Gain Mystic Arcanum (Plane Shift), Take Darkness 2 Level Spell, Prof Increases to 5.
Level 14: Gain Limited Wish (POG)
Level 15: Gain Mystic Arcanum (Feeblemind), Gain Seeming 5 Level Spell, Take Chains of Carceri Eldritch Invocation
Level 16: Gain Inspiring Leader Feat, re-evaluate life choices again and brace for Wish.
Level 17: Gain Mystic Arcanum (Wish), Gain Tongues 3 Level Spell, Spell Slots Increase to 4, Prof Increase to 6.
Level 18: Take Ghostly Gaze Eldritch Invocation.
Level 19: Intelligence Increase to 16, Take Dispel Magic 3 level spell. Prepare for the end by re-evaluating life choices.
Level 20: Gain Eldritch Master
Not sure what sort of advice you're looking for - e.g. you chose a suboptimal race, a suboptimal feat, and a suboptimal statline, and strictly speaking a suboptimal familiar, suboptimal invocations, and a suboptimal patron (this last is particularly unimportant - if you prefer the Djinn spells to the Dao ones and are willing to accept a slightly worse damage type, you do you; this is a game about having fun your way). Of course, you're still a Genielock, so as of level 17 you're the most powerful character in the game.
What sort of advice did you want? In terms of "viability", I'm not clear on your starting spell loadout, but I'll admit I have no clear idea of what role you're trying to fill in the party - you don't seem to have leaned into doing anything particularly well. Possibly the best advice I can give you is to pick something for your character to be good at - like all ttrpgs, 5E is more fun when there are situations where your character has a chance to be the most competent in the party at doing a job.
I knew I'd forget something.
My current list of spells is Eldritch Blast, and Minor Illusion for cantrips.
Comprehend Languages, Thunderwave, and Hex for 1st Level.
Suggestion for 2nd Level.
I liked the idea of going Var. Human and taking a non-combat centered feat like Prodigy simply because it fit the character, this is also why Int is so high versus something like con, which would arguably be more valuable.
I probably should have clarified a bit better what I was looking for!
Overall I'm looking to mostly play around the idea of her desiring to meet her patron (A Noble Air Djinni living in a massive castle/library, which is also why the int's so high and why I have things like Contact Other Plane and the like on the list.) I think as a whole I'd like to mostly play out of combat support, while at least still having some viability in combat as a magical DPS. And yeah, I'm aware the Pseudodragon's suboptimal and cannot even go invisible, but I felt the Quasit or Imp didn't fit too well, and the idea of a Pseudodragon just seemed conceptually more interesting then a fey.
You mentioned taking Suboptimal Invocations and feats, while I'm definitely keeping prodigy as I think it fits the character well, do you think I'd be better off say...swapping Inspiring Leader to something like Spell Sniper? Also if you've any Eldritch Invocation recommendations I'd most certainly appreciate those too.
Overall I'm just looking for some fun spell, feat, or just general level up recommendations to see if anything may seem like fun without leaning too hard into the meta, but still remaining a party member viable within combat and out. I'm not too worried about being in meta by any means, which I think is quite obvious given my choices so far.
Unless you are the only caster who can take counterspell in your party, I wouldn’t learn that or dispel magic at all. You don’t have many spell slots, even if they do recharge on a short rest, so you aren’t going to be able to do much besides counterspell with your slots if you are in a situation where you can use it. The one advantage warlocks do have is always casting at their max level, so you’ll at least cast it at 5th level after level 9. There are some other spell choices you made that seem thematically interesting, though I’m not sure I understand the theme either.
I would suggest taking Darkness at level 9 with Devils Sight invocation for the classic darkness only you can see through combo. Take Darkness as soon as you can with or after getting Devils Sight. But talk to your group about it first so they know you are going black out areas routinely - not everyone likes that.
You may want to consider pushing Voice of the Chain Master back and pushing Agonizing Blast or Devils Sight up to 2. Which one depends on whether you plan to be mostly a ranged blaster or in melee early on, respectively.
Yeah...I was kind of hesitant on counterspell/dispell magic from the start, but they were so good I just kind of threw them on there. At the moment I'm the first to create a character for the campaign in question, so I don't know what the team comp will look like yet either.
As of now I'm thinking swapping the starting invocations to Devil's Sight, Investment of the Chain Master. Darkness is getting grabbed at level 4, Misty Step at 6 instead of 4. I bumped Voice of the Chain Master to 7.
Also, I'm loosely sticking to the theme of windy/thunder spells as per the Djinni patron, with the only real restriction being I'm trying not to delve too deep into the land of Eldritch Horrors, though I'd not object to a handful of them if there was some particularly interesting ones. I'd say I'd definitely also lean more towards buffing allies then de-buffing enemies (Hex being one of the few exceptions to this.) Given the idea of the Djinni patron being a bit of a closer pact/bond then a power stemming from a god I also found spells which would allow interaction with such an entity to be quite neat too, which is why I took things such as Plane Shift and Contact Other Plane. Plane Shift also being particularly interesting as it has combat usage as well. So the TLDR: The theme is a Magical DPS with some Djinni flair (Lightning/Thunder/Force damage) with a healthy dosage of buffing and fun out of combat options.
That’s helpful characterization, and I like all your changes. I get the planar spells now.
Purely for flavor, you could describe your Darkness spell as a dust devil that completely obscures vision in the same area. As long as it’s mechanically the same, it shouldn’t matter. That will go along with your theme. And it also makes sense that you can see through it then.
FYI Variant Human is Tasha's Custom Lineage but strictly worse and Prodigy is Skill Expert but strictly worse, no matter what your intended design is. I'm not, like, telling you what to do, just explaining what I meant when I called your choices suboptimal. Changing to those choices will result in an identical character except that it's better at what you want it to be good at.
If it fits the character, you might consider asking your DM for a house rule (seeing as you already have at least one on you) allowing you to play Warlocks as Int-based. I've heard of other DMs allowing it, as it's a net nerf mechanically. If your character is supposed to be more smart than charismatic, this could let you make a "viable" Intlock. If you go with this, as per WOTC's class design philosophy, you should also change Warlocks to being proficient in Int saves (losing Cha saves). Do not change any other proficiencies. You'll also need to modify all of your invocations that specify "Charisma" to instead specify spellcasting ability.
Drop Voice of the Chain Master (your scout isn't invisible, so infinite range senses aren't nearly as valuable support) and Thunderwave, replacing them with Devil's Sight and Darkness, respectively. You'll be significantly better at Scouting, Tanking, and DPR.
Partially addressed above in my post, and I just realized you're missing a feat entirely (your choice at level 12 is invalid, as you plan to be CHA 20 at Level 8), but overall my recommendations for your 6 ASIs would be (I'll also modify your statline slightly); the order these happen in isn't particularly important if you decide you want a different order:
A slightly more extensive change to your statline lets me specify an additional feat productively:
I left Intelligence entirely intact since you emphasized it was important to you. A chainlock genielock should absolutely try their hardest to get their hands on Inspiring Leader.
I have no idea what the meta is, but I'll point out that 3 levels of Sorcerer mixed in can change your Warlock in some drastic and potentially fun ways, and you don't miss out on a lot from a level 20 perspective.
A couple of random thoughts.
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Quindraco had lots of good points for mechanical improvements. But I will suggest a change from his order.
Since you want to go with a more support-oriented role, I recommend Inspiring Leader before Moderately Armored. At level 12 you’ll be dishing out 17 THP per short rest to up to six creatures (presumably you, your familiar, and up to four other party members). That’s a substantial support effect. It’s going to be really appreciated unless your party includes a replenishing THP subclass like Artillerist Artificer or Twilight Cleric that can’t stack with it.
I greatly appreciate all the advice! I'll definitely be looking into making most of the changes everyone mentioned, as the addition of feats such as Fey Touched, Telekentic, and Medium Armored open up quite a few fun possibilities and in-lore potential. I've also never really looked into Custom Lineage, so the discovery of that's also most certainly a welcome buff. While I enjoy the extra language and tool proficiency Prodigy gives it's hard to pass up Skill Expert's +1 in a stat.
The Choice between Moderately Armored and Leader is a tough one, as loosing the +1 to dex does mean I'll be out of a higher AC for quite a long while, though that is made up rather significantly for party-wide Temp. HP. I'll have to give it some thought.
I'd honestly forgotten about being able to replace spells each level, and somehow completely missed that I'd doubled up on my Charisma at 20.