Currently I am playing a twilight cleric that started with one level in fighter for the con proficiency. My campaign is supposed to run to level 14.
I am trying to decide whether or not I should take a second level in fighter for action surge. Taking action search though Will cost me one sixth level spell slot. I have never played a campaign to this high of a level so I am not sure which one would be more beneficial. An extra action every short rest or 1 6th level spell spell per long rest.
note: I am the co tank with the barbarian, as everyone else is a squishy. Heavy armor, shield and defensive fighting style
I will say that 6th level Cleric spells don't have anything that's too terribly game changing that you're going to be missing out on. I'd say read through the spells available and decide if any of them feel like they would be particularly important in your game... if you're dealing with a lot of trickery and illusions, then it might be worth it to be able to cast Truesight. Dealing with a lot of vampires or anything weak to radiant damage? Sunbeam is a great spell, especially because you can fire it for multiple rounds. Got a lot of money to burn and regularly dealing with creatures outputting frightened or charmed conditions? Then it could be worth it to get Heroes' Feast.
If none of the 6th level Cleric spells feel like they'll be particularly impactful on your specific group's adventure, then I think you'll get more out of Action Surge.
You also have to think about 7th level spells. Because you can't get to 7th without passing through 6th. Likewise, the ASI and the improvement to your Divine Intervention aren't nothing, and you're delaying those.
Edit: Or casting your lower level spells using a 6th level slot?
I don't really have an answer. Action Surge is pretty sweet.
If the game goes to 14th level and you have 2 levels of fighter then you will miss out on 7th level spells and slots completely. That’s quite a big loss. Action surge can be really good if you can make full use of it, otherwise it’s the poor cousin.
Sunbeam is a wonderful attack spell, sunlight, damage and blinding, concentration but it costs you an action every round, but it is not a spell every round. So that means you can use Bonus Action spells every round.
Word of Recall is a more game friendly version of Teleport. Takes you home, but does not let you skip the trip to the bad guys place.
Sunbeam isn't a cleric spell. It's limited to druids, sorcerers, and wizards.
The optional rules in Tasha's Cauldron Of Everything include additions to each class' spell list. Under those rules, Sunbeam gets added to the Cleric list.
Action surge wouldn't let you cast extra spells in battle; that being said, even if there were no great options for 6th level cleric spells, I'd still take cleric over another level of fighter. Getting behind on spell progression for casters can really hurt them, though I'm sure starting as fighter 1 you know that already.
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Action surge wouldn't let you cast extra spells in battle
Sure it would. You'd just have to be selective about which spells you cast, because casting two concentration spells wouldn't be a good move. I don't know all the Cleric spells, but popping off two Inflict Wounds seems pretty deadly.
Action surge wouldn't let you cast extra spells in battle; that being said, even if there were no great options for 6th level cleric spells, I'd still take cleric over another level of fighter. Getting behind on spell progression for casters can really hurt them, though I'm sure starting as fighter 1 you know that already.
Action Surge, to my knowledge, is actually unusual because it's the only means to cast two leveled spells on the same turn. I'm not sure if it was a deliberate design choice, or just one of those weird rules things where the specific language doesn't explicitly prevent it... Action Surge has a lot of weird interactions like that.
Action surge wouldn't let you cast extra spells in battle; that being said, even if there were no great options for 6th level cleric spells, I'd still take cleric over another level of fighter. Getting behind on spell progression for casters can really hurt them, though I'm sure starting as fighter 1 you know that already.
Action Surge, to my knowledge, is actually unusual because it's the only means to cast two leveled spells on the same turn. I'm not sure if it was a deliberate design choice, or just one of those weird rules things where the specific language doesn't explicitly prevent it... Action Surge has a lot of weird interactions like that.
There has never been a rule against casting two leveled spells in one turn. Anyone can do it with Counterspell or Shield, if they happen to get the triggering condition on their own turn.
Action surge wouldn't let you cast extra spells in battle; that being said, even if there were no great options for 6th level cleric spells, I'd still take cleric over another level of fighter. Getting behind on spell progression for casters can really hurt them, though I'm sure starting as fighter 1 you know that already.
Action Surge, to my knowledge, is actually unusual because it's the only means to cast two leveled spells on the same turn. I'm not sure if it was a deliberate design choice, or just one of those weird rules things where the specific language doesn't explicitly prevent it... Action Surge has a lot of weird interactions like that.
There has never been a rule against casting two leveled spells in one turn. Anyone can do it with Counterspell or Shield, if they happen to get the triggering condition on their own turn.
Oh, I've been looking into it more and realized the specific wording is that you can't do a leveled spell as both an action and a bonus action... there's no language that prevents a player from casting two leveled spells in a turn outside of that specific limitation. So if a character has access to action surge, they can use the distinct action from both their built-in action and the surge to each cast a leveled spell, but they can't cast a leveled spell as a bonus action on that same turn. At the same time, if they instead cast a bonus action spell, they can only use both actions to cast cantrips.
I disagree with a couple of people. Warlocks have so few spell slots that taking situational spells that they don’t use very often doesn’t hurt them much. Take both Counterspell and Dispel Magic. You probably have spells now that you almost never cast because you only have w spell slots. My warlock does.
Action Surge, to my knowledge, is actually unusual because it's the only means to cast two leveled spells on the same turn. I'm not sure if it was a deliberate design choice, or just one of those weird rules things where the specific language doesn't explicitly prevent it... Action Surge has a lot of weird interactions like that.
There has never been a rule against casting two leveled spells in one turn. Anyone can do it with Counterspell or Shield, if they happen to get the triggering condition on their own turn.
Oh, I've been looking into it more and realized the specific wording is that you can't do a leveled spell as both an action and a bonus action... there's no language that prevents a player from casting two leveled spells in a turn outside of that specific limitation. So if a character has access to action surge, they can use the distinct action from both their built-in action and the surge to each cast a leveled spell, but they can't cast a leveled spell as a bonus action on that same turn. At the same time, if they instead cast a bonus action spell, they can only use both actions to cast cantrips.
That's wack. I guess you learn something new every day. Here's a lesson to be had about posting with confidence - there's always room to grow. I guess if it really is true, then that opens up a whole bunch of interesting multi class options.
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Back to topic, lol, based on what the OP says their role, is, I feel the Action Surge might get more mileage, as they seem to be more melee that spell slinger. While I agree that higher level spells usually are more optimal, I also feel the Optimal Ship has sailed with the MC, so now it's time to best suit the character to the role. Action Surge will grant you a second round of attacks, OR, a spell as you wish, giving you more options as you stand face-to-face with the enemies.
Higher spells and more high end spell slots would be better for any character NOT engaging in melee (IMO) but will have less effect for the character bonking their foes with weaponry. It's a situation where neither choice is a BAD choice and depending on your playstyle, one will hold a slight edge over the other. I would personally be considering how often I am relying on my spells to do things compared to how much swinging I am doing of weapons. If I find I am swinging weapons mostly and using my spells to buff/debff or even patch us all up after fights, then Action Surge is a MUCH better choice. If, however, I have found I am standing in melee range but casting spells and cantrips a lot, then maybe a couple more slots and/or higher level spells would serve me nest.
Good luck whichever way you go, friend, it sounds like you're having fun, which is the MOST important part to keep in mind.
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Currently I am playing a twilight cleric that started with one level in fighter for the con proficiency. My campaign is supposed to run to level 14.
I am trying to decide whether or not I should take a second level in fighter for action surge. Taking action search though Will cost me one sixth level spell slot. I have never played a campaign to this high of a level so I am not sure which one would be more beneficial. An extra action every short rest or 1 6th level spell spell per long rest.
note: I am the co tank with the barbarian, as everyone else is a squishy. Heavy armor, shield and defensive fighting style
Thoughts?
I will say that 6th level Cleric spells don't have anything that's too terribly game changing that you're going to be missing out on. I'd say read through the spells available and decide if any of them feel like they would be particularly important in your game... if you're dealing with a lot of trickery and illusions, then it might be worth it to be able to cast Truesight. Dealing with a lot of vampires or anything weak to radiant damage? Sunbeam is a great spell, especially because you can fire it for multiple rounds. Got a lot of money to burn and regularly dealing with creatures outputting frightened or charmed conditions? Then it could be worth it to get Heroes' Feast.
If none of the 6th level Cleric spells feel like they'll be particularly impactful on your specific group's adventure, then I think you'll get more out of Action Surge.
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You also have to think about 7th level spells. Because you can't get to 7th without passing through 6th. Likewise, the ASI and the improvement to your Divine Intervention aren't nothing, and you're delaying those.
Edit: Or casting your lower level spells using a 6th level slot?
I don't really have an answer. Action Surge is pretty sweet.
If the game goes to 14th level and you have 2 levels of fighter then you will miss out on 7th level spells and slots completely. That’s quite a big loss. Action surge can be really good if you can make full use of it, otherwise it’s the poor cousin.
Really good 6th level clerical spells:
Sunbeam, Word of Recall, True Seeing.
Sunbeam is a wonderful attack spell, sunlight, damage and blinding, concentration but it costs you an action every round, but it is not a spell every round. So that means you can use Bonus Action spells every round.
Word of Recall is a more game friendly version of Teleport. Takes you home, but does not let you skip the trip to the bad guys place.
True Seeing is often necessary.
Sunbeam isn't a cleric spell. It's limited to druids, sorcerers, and wizards.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The optional rules in Tasha's Cauldron Of Everything include additions to each class' spell list. Under those rules, Sunbeam gets added to the Cleric list.
Just to add...You miss 7th level spells as well as upcasting existing spells for more damage potential.
Action surge is also sweet if you find that your additional action is more beneficial than those 7th level or upcasted spells.
Action surge wouldn't let you cast extra spells in battle; that being said, even if there were no great options for 6th level cleric spells, I'd still take cleric over another level of fighter. Getting behind on spell progression for casters can really hurt them, though I'm sure starting as fighter 1 you know that already.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Sure it would. You'd just have to be selective about which spells you cast, because casting two concentration spells wouldn't be a good move. I don't know all the Cleric spells, but popping off two Inflict Wounds seems pretty deadly.
Action Surge, to my knowledge, is actually unusual because it's the only means to cast two leveled spells on the same turn. I'm not sure if it was a deliberate design choice, or just one of those weird rules things where the specific language doesn't explicitly prevent it... Action Surge has a lot of weird interactions like that.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
There has never been a rule against casting two leveled spells in one turn. Anyone can do it with Counterspell or Shield, if they happen to get the triggering condition on their own turn.
Oh, I've been looking into it more and realized the specific wording is that you can't do a leveled spell as both an action and a bonus action... there's no language that prevents a player from casting two leveled spells in a turn outside of that specific limitation. So if a character has access to action surge, they can use the distinct action from both their built-in action and the surge to each cast a leveled spell, but they can't cast a leveled spell as a bonus action on that same turn. At the same time, if they instead cast a bonus action spell, they can only use both actions to cast cantrips.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I disagree with a couple of people. Warlocks have so few spell slots that taking situational spells that they don’t use very often doesn’t hurt them much. Take both Counterspell and Dispel Magic. You probably have spells now that you almost never cast because you only have w spell slots. My warlock does.
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That's wack. I guess you learn something new every day. Here's a lesson to be had about posting with confidence - there's always room to grow. I guess if it really is true, then that opens up a whole bunch of interesting multi class options.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Back to topic, lol, based on what the OP says their role, is, I feel the Action Surge might get more mileage, as they seem to be more melee that spell slinger. While I agree that higher level spells usually are more optimal, I also feel the Optimal Ship has sailed with the MC, so now it's time to best suit the character to the role. Action Surge will grant you a second round of attacks, OR, a spell as you wish, giving you more options as you stand face-to-face with the enemies.
Higher spells and more high end spell slots would be better for any character NOT engaging in melee (IMO) but will have less effect for the character bonking their foes with weaponry. It's a situation where neither choice is a BAD choice and depending on your playstyle, one will hold a slight edge over the other. I would personally be considering how often I am relying on my spells to do things compared to how much swinging I am doing of weapons. If I find I am swinging weapons mostly and using my spells to buff/debff or even patch us all up after fights, then Action Surge is a MUCH better choice. If, however, I have found I am standing in melee range but casting spells and cantrips a lot, then maybe a couple more slots and/or higher level spells would serve me nest.
Good luck whichever way you go, friend, it sounds like you're having fun, which is the MOST important part to keep in mind.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.