Correct, though whether it is a good idea or not depends on your class. If you are taking 16 levels in a full caster for example you will be missing out on 9th level spells.
If someone really wants 2 epic feats that badly and they're playing up to 20, they can probably just convince the DM to hand out epic feats every 355K EXP after hitting level 20 like the game suggests.
If someone really wants 2 epic feats that badly and they're playing up to 20, they can probably just convince the DM to hand out epic feats every 355K EXP after hitting level 20 like the game suggests.
True, but things like lv20 one shot characters would probably appreciate the option
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
If someone really wants 2 epic feats that badly and they're playing up to 20, they can probably just convince the DM to hand out epic feats every 355K EXP after hitting level 20 like the game suggests.
True, but things like lv20 one shot characters would probably appreciate the option
And the 16/4 character can get a third epic boon at level 20 plus 355k XP
The core challenge here is coming up with an actually good 16/4 (or 12/8) character. Maybe fighter-12/rogue-8.
I haven't thought things through taking a 3 level dip to get sub class features was quite common pre 2024 PHB. Now whatever the dip you need 3 levels to get the subclass feature. Getting a 4th level means you foregot the level 17 feature of your main so I think the best thing to look for is:
A dip subclass which is front loaded with lots of stuff at level 3
A main class which goes with it, ideally one with a level 17 feature which isn't great.
The core challenge here is coming up with an actually good 16/4 (or 12/8) character. Maybe fighter-12/rogue-8.
Fighter-12/Rogue-8 is a pretty good option, also:
Fighter-12/Barbarian-8 - Adv on initiative, high mobility, Weapon Mastery Juggling options, 3 attacks per action, Rage bonus damage, damage resistance and Reckless + Action Surge.
Paladin-12/Fighter-8 (EK) -> Combine War-Magic cantrip with Radiant Strikes(and optionally Divine Favor) and Weapon Mastery Juggling for lots of damage, plus all the defensive spells of EK plus the aura bonus to saves of Paladin to be unkillable.
Warlock-12 (Archfey)/Paladin- 8 (Devotion) - teleport all over the place taunting enemies then reflecting damage you take back at them (using 1st level spell slots from paladin) with +5 to all saves and immunity to charm and making 3 attacks per action with a massive bonus to hit: (CHA+CHA+prof), and Eldritch Smite whenever you Crit. Plus Fighting style and Weapon Mastery and decent armour from Paladin.
Monk-16/Fighter-4 (Psionic or Battlemaster) - most of the good stuff from monk, plus Weapon Mastery, Fighting Style, Action Surge, and a bunch more battlefield control options.
Fighter 6 isn't an option, as the only class that gets an ASI at 14 is a fighter and you can't multiclass a class with itself.
If I was for some reason doing a fighter/barbarian I'd probably go with 16/4, the level 13-16 fighter features (extra indomitable, studied attacks, subclass feature (the level 15 features are actually quite good), 2xASI) are more appealing than the level 5-8 barbarian features (redundant extra attack that does nothing, fast movement, feral instinct, feral pounce, 1xASI, 1 extra rage use). 16/4 also has potential on fighter/rogue, but the rogue level 5-8 features are more desirable (mostly because the biggest feature that barbarians get in the 5-8 range is extra attack... which doesn't do anything if you're multiclassed with another class that already has it).
A quick note on the EK x Charisma based char build, Valour bard could be a better choice here if you want to be depending on less stats. (Valour is specifically better with warlock as the Valour bard cantrip replace allows any cantrip meaning eldritch blast is valid, while the eldritch knight feature only allows wizard cantrips where true strike is still admittedly very good.) You do however give up the armour and shields and other benefits of fighter (action surge, indomitable etc.) and if you take Magic Initiate for your true strike you can make it based on charisma too.
I call it the Superhero build. Wild Heart Barbarian 3/Warrior of Elements Monk 15/ Barbarian 4/Monk 16. As an Aasimar. Aasimar gets you resistance to necrotic and radiant damage. Wild Heart Barbarian gets you resistance to all elemental damage and poison. That leaves only force and psychic as non-resisted damage types. After Barb3, move to Monk to build your unarmed damage and movement and defenses (patient defense, deflect attack, evasion). True, you have to wait until Barb3/Monk 5 to get extra attack, but monk1 gets you martial arts and a bonus action attack. Depending on your build, you can go with the barb unarmored defense instead of the monk's. Most of the monk abilities will work with Rage, thus ensuring you can unarmed strike with Str, getting the Rage bonus (every bit helps), along with flurry of blows and bonus reach + substitute elemental damage. At Monk 11, you get a fly and swim speed to match your walking speed. Saving throws proficiency, deflect energy, all good stuff. Since your flight is non-concentration and not a spell, you can fly while raging. If you went Sage instead of Farmer, like I did, you can get fire bolt (heat vision) and frostbite (cold breath) as cantrips that will scale with your character level. (First level, I'd take jump)
As for which epic feats- I'd go with boon of speed (+30 to movement, now at 90) and boon of fortitude (+40 hp, gain con mod bonus to hp regained (once /long rest)), especially if you didn't go farmer for the tough feat at level 1.
If you are a lv40 character… surely you have them all anyway right? It’s less superhero and more lesser god.
Also, if you are making attacks Boon of Combat Prowess is always worth consideration
I think they’re just lv20 but it’s definitely formatted weirdly.
It's giving the level 18 (barbarian 3/monk 15) and level 20 (barbarian 4/monk 16) versions, but yes, it took me a couple passes to figure out what it was saying.
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If you aim for a lv4 dip and a lv16 main class and go to 15/3 first you can take those final two ASI/ at lv19 and 20 to get two epic boons
Correct, though whether it is a good idea or not depends on your class. If you are taking 16 levels in a full caster for example you will be missing out on 9th level spells.
If someone really wants 2 epic feats that badly and they're playing up to 20, they can probably just convince the DM to hand out epic feats every 355K EXP after hitting level 20 like the game suggests.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
True, but things like lv20 one shot characters would probably appreciate the option
And the 16/4 character can get a third epic boon at level 20 plus 355k XP
The core challenge here is coming up with an actually good 16/4 (or 12/8) character. Maybe fighter-12/rogue-8.
I haven't thought things through taking a 3 level dip to get sub class features was quite common pre 2024 PHB. Now whatever the dip you need 3 levels to get the subclass feature. Getting a 4th level means you foregot the level 17 feature of your main so I think the best thing to look for is:
Fighter-12/Rogue-8 is a pretty good option, also:
Fighter-12/Barbarian-8 - Adv on initiative, high mobility, Weapon Mastery Juggling options, 3 attacks per action, Rage bonus damage, damage resistance and Reckless + Action Surge.
Paladin-12/Fighter-8 (EK) -> Combine War-Magic cantrip with Radiant Strikes(and optionally Divine Favor) and Weapon Mastery Juggling for lots of damage, plus all the defensive spells of EK plus the aura bonus to saves of Paladin to be unkillable.
Warlock-12 (Archfey)/Paladin- 8 (Devotion) - teleport all over the place taunting enemies then reflecting damage you take back at them (using 1st level spell slots from paladin) with +5 to all saves and immunity to charm and making 3 attacks per action with a massive bonus to hit: (CHA+CHA+prof), and Eldritch Smite whenever you Crit. Plus Fighting style and Weapon Mastery and decent armour from Paladin.
Fighter-12 (EK)/Warlock-8(Celestial) - 1x True Strike which adds your weapon modifier + charisma modifier + 2 additional attacks, rechargable 4th level Eldritch Smites, Action Surge, Indomitable.
Monk-16/Fighter-4 (Psionic or Battlemaster) - most of the good stuff from monk, plus Weapon Mastery, Fighting Style, Action Surge, and a bunch more battlefield control options.
Good job! Thank you Agile for thinking those through!
Fighter 6 is also an option (to get extra attack)
Fighter 6 isn't an option, as the only class that gets an ASI at 14 is a fighter and you can't multiclass a class with itself.
If I was for some reason doing a fighter/barbarian I'd probably go with 16/4, the level 13-16 fighter features (extra indomitable, studied attacks, subclass feature (the level 15 features are actually quite good), 2xASI) are more appealing than the level 5-8 barbarian features (redundant extra attack that does nothing, fast movement, feral instinct, feral pounce, 1xASI, 1 extra rage use). 16/4 also has potential on fighter/rogue, but the rogue level 5-8 features are more desirable (mostly because the biggest feature that barbarians get in the 5-8 range is extra attack... which doesn't do anything if you're multiclassed with another class that already has it).
But you can multi-class twice 6 10 4 or 6 12 2 etc. (was just mentioning it was a possibility)
A quick note on the EK x Charisma based char build, Valour bard could be a better choice here if you want to be depending on less stats. (Valour is specifically better with warlock as the Valour bard cantrip replace allows any cantrip meaning eldritch blast is valid, while the eldritch knight feature only allows wizard cantrips where true strike is still admittedly very good.) You do however give up the armour and shields and other benefits of fighter (action surge, indomitable etc.) and if you take Magic Initiate for your true strike you can make it based on charisma too.
You could just make a "dumb" EK. Lots of good spells for an EK that don't require INT at all.
I call it the Superhero build. Wild Heart Barbarian 3/Warrior of Elements Monk 15/ Barbarian 4/Monk 16. As an Aasimar. Aasimar gets you resistance to necrotic and radiant damage. Wild Heart Barbarian gets you resistance to all elemental damage and poison. That leaves only force and psychic as non-resisted damage types. After Barb3, move to Monk to build your unarmed damage and movement and defenses (patient defense, deflect attack, evasion). True, you have to wait until Barb3/Monk 5 to get extra attack, but monk1 gets you martial arts and a bonus action attack. Depending on your build, you can go with the barb unarmored defense instead of the monk's. Most of the monk abilities will work with Rage, thus ensuring you can unarmed strike with Str, getting the Rage bonus (every bit helps), along with flurry of blows and bonus reach + substitute elemental damage. At Monk 11, you get a fly and swim speed to match your walking speed. Saving throws proficiency, deflect energy, all good stuff. Since your flight is non-concentration and not a spell, you can fly while raging. If you went Sage instead of Farmer, like I did, you can get fire bolt (heat vision) and frostbite (cold breath) as cantrips that will scale with your character level. (First level, I'd take jump)
As for which epic feats- I'd go with boon of speed (+30 to movement, now at 90) and boon of fortitude (+40 hp, gain con mod bonus to hp regained (once /long rest)), especially if you didn't go farmer for the tough feat at level 1.
If you are a lv40 character… surely you have them all anyway right? It’s less superhero and more lesser god.
Also, if you are making attacks Boon of Combat Prowess is always worth consideration
I think they’re just lv20 but it’s definitely formatted weirdly.
It's giving the level 18 (barbarian 3/monk 15) and level 20 (barbarian 4/monk 16) versions, but yes, it took me a couple passes to figure out what it was saying.