So, many of you have probably noticed that with the exception of Orcus and the Githyanki, enemies that used to deal magical weapon damage in the past are increasingly dealing force damage. This is not good for the Barbarian, since they do not have resistance to that. I have a solution.
Make it so that once Barbarians reach a certain level, their Rage resistance applies to any attack that is labelled a "weapon" attack. Now, before you say this would nerf the Totem Warrior, keep in mind they would still be the king of resistance at lower levels. And at higher levels, they would still be able to apply their Rage resistance to spell attacks and various AoEs, which the regular Barbarian would not be.
I think this is intentional. I pretty sure they are moving alway from “magical damage.” They are also intentionally not giving Barbarians resistance to Force. They didn’t even allow Bear to choose Force as a resistance. I need to see the new Monster Manual to know if it’s a slight nerf or they if killed rage and the Barbarian.
I honestly think the "magical weapon" problem will be much less than we assume. It is more common for players to have magical weapons than monsters. Usually you are fighting creatures that use natural weapons.
But many monsters have a feature called "Magic Weapons" which makes ANY weapon attack made by them (including with a random rusty pipe or their hands) magical.
I always thought that the Barbarian's resistance to physical damage was the counterpoint to their vulnerability through Reckless Attacks. Now, when Force damage is apparently becoming a common damage type, the primary reason for rage (because those couple of points of extra damage is mostly icing on the cake) seems to be greatly diminished.
I'm honestly puzzled at this direction of development. The martial classes were given some means of sustaining themselves: paladin lay on hands and fighter second wind, monk's bonus action dodge, for instance. Barbarians instead made their HP last a bit longer through resistance. But now when that is effectively restricted to low levels, what's the plan for mid to high tier play? It feels like this isn't conductive to the courageous (ie reckless) playstyle of the barbarian class; the safety net might not be entirely gone, but it has an alarmingly big hole in it.
So, yeah. Force damage proliferation? Starting to look mighty problematic from where I'm standing...
Has there been a Q&A or video where the developers discuss their overall thoughts behind the forcifying initiative?
I think Force should be one of the options for Bear Totem barb, even if that choice ends up with fewer options overall. I agree that Force damage for monsters is rare in D&D, but it will undoubtedly be more common in 1DnD than it is now.
I don't see a problem with it, at least not yet. It seems that force damage type now has a role of "almighty" damage - the type of damage that is seldom, if ever, resisted, and likely there's not going to be anything vulnerable to it. Just pure damage that bypasses everything, with no side effects like setting things on fire.
Well... seeing as how dealing Force damage is as easy as casting the Shillelagh cantrip as of the most recent UA, and how there's strong indications suggesting that anything that was previously associated with damage from magical weapons (or equivalently eldritch natural weaponry) will now deal Force damage, it wouldn't seem like it is going to be rare. Or even uncommon, past a certain level-bracket.
But, yeah, we won't know for sure until we see a few samples of creatures from low, mid, and high-tier play. I'll just hope for the best, and fret for the worst :)
Thinking on it further... maybe Force resistance could be added to base rage. That would restore every Barbarians' resistance to magical weapon attacks, and also give them a solid defensive buff against various casters.
Thinking on it further... maybe Force resistance could be added to base rage. That would restore every Barbarians' resistance to magical weapon attacks, and also give them a solid defensive buff against various casters.
There's just something absolutely tickling to me about how a person could be so plain upset they shrug off the brunt of disintegrate :)
I think this would be a bad idea. Everyone needs a vulnerability.
They still would - Psychic, which no Barbarian (not even Bear Wildhearts) would be able to resist. And they would still be weaker than today's Bearbarians.
Honestly, as a DM, I think their d12 hit dice is enough.
They have, by far, the most hit points in the game. They don't need any more help.
The d12 Hit Die and their ability to resist B/P/S damage when Raging was part of the class balance. Now when fighting some of the toughest foes in the game, that balance has shifted quite a bit.
According to DDB, there are 496 monsters in the current Monster Manual; including a wide number of variants. Only 23 of them have the Magic Weapon trait, so we aren't even talking five percent. The lowest level offender is the couatl; followed closely by the flesh golem, mezzoloth, and unicorn. The remaining CR <10 entries are the oni, gray slaad, and nycaloth.
That's not a lot, and while this number could go up (I'd personally love to see the vampire get some love), it's good that there are some special monsters you can't just rage your way past.
I don't see a problem with it, at least not yet. It seems that force damage type now has a role of "almighty" damage - the type of damage that is seldom, if ever, resisted, and likely there's not going to be anything vulnerable to it. Just pure damage that bypasses everything, with no side effects like setting things on fire.
It all depends on just how common it becomes.
Assuming it is how they deal with magic weapons as well, then basically all humanoids in tier 3&4 will deal primarily force damage.
The one thing about moving everything to force is that a brooch of shielding will literally make all magic weapons kind of useless and lame. Since a Brooch of shielding is an uncommon item, it's not exactly like they are rare and if so many magic items use force damage, it'll become a must have item. If Barbarians could also resist force, then perhaps it'd be less sort after for them at least.
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So, many of you have probably noticed that with the exception of Orcus and the Githyanki, enemies that used to deal magical weapon damage in the past are increasingly dealing force damage. This is not good for the Barbarian, since they do not have resistance to that. I have a solution.
Make it so that once Barbarians reach a certain level, their Rage resistance applies to any attack that is labelled a "weapon" attack. Now, before you say this would nerf the Totem Warrior, keep in mind they would still be the king of resistance at lower levels. And at higher levels, they would still be able to apply their Rage resistance to spell attacks and various AoEs, which the regular Barbarian would not be.
Thoughts?
I think this is intentional. I pretty sure they are moving alway from “magical damage.” They are also intentionally not giving Barbarians resistance to Force. They didn’t even allow Bear to choose Force as a resistance. I need to see the new Monster Manual to know if it’s a slight nerf or they if killed rage and the Barbarian.
It's definitely going to be a problem at higher levels.
It will be good. 5e became too easy with damage resistance becoming meaningless. I am looking forward to the changes.
I honestly think the "magical weapon" problem will be much less than we assume. It is more common for players to have magical weapons than monsters. Usually you are fighting creatures that use natural weapons.
But many monsters have a feature called "Magic Weapons" which makes ANY weapon attack made by them (including with a random rusty pipe or their hands) magical.
I always thought that the Barbarian's resistance to physical damage was the counterpoint to their vulnerability through Reckless Attacks. Now, when Force damage is apparently becoming a common damage type, the primary reason for rage (because those couple of points of extra damage is mostly icing on the cake) seems to be greatly diminished.
I'm honestly puzzled at this direction of development. The martial classes were given some means of sustaining themselves: paladin lay on hands and fighter second wind, monk's bonus action dodge, for instance. Barbarians instead made their HP last a bit longer through resistance. But now when that is effectively restricted to low levels, what's the plan for mid to high tier play? It feels like this isn't conductive to the courageous (ie reckless) playstyle of the barbarian class; the safety net might not be entirely gone, but it has an alarmingly big hole in it.
So, yeah. Force damage proliferation? Starting to look mighty problematic from where I'm standing...
Has there been a Q&A or video where the developers discuss their overall thoughts behind the forcifying initiative?
I think Force should be one of the options for Bear Totem barb, even if that choice ends up with fewer options overall. I agree that Force damage for monsters is rare in D&D, but it will undoubtedly be more common in 1DnD than it is now.
I don't see a problem with it, at least not yet. It seems that force damage type now has a role of "almighty" damage - the type of damage that is seldom, if ever, resisted, and likely there's not going to be anything vulnerable to it. Just pure damage that bypasses everything, with no side effects like setting things on fire.
It all depends on just how common it becomes.
Agree 100%
Well... seeing as how dealing Force damage is as easy as casting the Shillelagh cantrip as of the most recent UA, and how there's strong indications suggesting that anything that was previously associated with damage from magical weapons (or equivalently eldritch natural weaponry) will now deal Force damage, it wouldn't seem like it is going to be rare. Or even uncommon, past a certain level-bracket.
But, yeah, we won't know for sure until we see a few samples of creatures from low, mid, and high-tier play. I'll just hope for the best, and fret for the worst :)
Thinking on it further... maybe Force resistance could be added to base rage. That would restore every Barbarians' resistance to magical weapon attacks, and also give them a solid defensive buff against various casters.
There's just something absolutely tickling to me about how a person could be so plain upset they shrug off the brunt of disintegrate :)
I think this would be a bad idea. Everyone needs a vulnerability.
They still would - Psychic, which no Barbarian (not even Bear Wildhearts) would be able to resist. And they would still be weaker than today's Bearbarians.
Honestly, as a DM, I think their d12 hit dice is enough.
They have, by far, the most hit points in the game. They don't need any more help.
The d12 Hit Die and their ability to resist B/P/S damage when Raging was part of the class balance. Now when fighting some of the toughest foes in the game, that balance has shifted quite a bit.
According to DDB, there are 496 monsters in the current Monster Manual; including a wide number of variants. Only 23 of them have the Magic Weapon trait, so we aren't even talking five percent. The lowest level offender is the couatl; followed closely by the flesh golem, mezzoloth, and unicorn. The remaining CR <10 entries are the oni, gray slaad, and nycaloth.
That's not a lot, and while this number could go up (I'd personally love to see the vampire get some love), it's good that there are some special monsters you can't just rage your way past.
Assuming it is how they deal with magic weapons as well, then basically all humanoids in tier 3&4 will deal primarily force damage.
The one thing about moving everything to force is that a brooch of shielding will literally make all magic weapons kind of useless and lame. Since a Brooch of shielding is an uncommon item, it's not exactly like they are rare and if so many magic items use force damage, it'll become a must have item. If Barbarians could also resist force, then perhaps it'd be less sort after for them at least.