If confirmed the new Sorcerer gets Chaos Bolt for free as class spell, I've thought about some points so it could fit better:
- With Elemental Adept we can increase to chance to bounce, if we roll 1 and 2 with the d8 dice, can convert the 1 into a 2 as the spell could be considered as the damage type for 2 that would be our choice for Elemental Adept.
- Metamagic.
- Chaos Bolt fixed damage type table. OK it is in alphabetical order for easier usage, but then always the same damage types are the higher and the lower ones.
With this, I think a good thing could be allow the character to customize the damage types table when learning the spell. So you could put at 2 the one you would want for bouncing if thinking about getting Elemental Adept, and could put what types of damages wants higher for specialization and Empowered Spell, for when you want to reach higher damages to not be always attached to that alphabetical order. In addition maybe allow to change it again at level up, like if relearning it.
* The combo with Elemental Adept increases the chance to bounce from 12.5% to 15.625%. Doesn't seem relevant to me.
* Empowered spell gives you an additional 12.5% on the reroll for a total of 23.4375%. also not too hot for a sorcery point.
* Combining both yields roughly 30% assuming that if one of the dice shows a 1 or 2 you only reroll the other one. But I still think theres way more powerfull applications for Empowered Spell (e.g. Fireball).
Making the ordering of the table customizable just seems unnecessarily complicated. Especially when considering that it would just give the false impression of having influence on the outcome. I think though that the ordering of damage types should be the reversed ordering of the chance that the target has resistance to the damage, i.e. Force should do the least damage, Poison the highest etc.
It is not about what seems relevant to each of us because that is at the end subjective, but for giving options to character. If you like more some kind of damage and want to use Empowered Spell, why not?. Specially if you rolled low values for the d6 too in an upcasted CB.
Sure, there's nothing wrong with playing the game the way that is fun for you. And if you like those kinds of interactions and it makes you happy whenever you hit a second target with CB, go for it. I just provided the numbers to show that, if you want to maximize the damage output, combining CB with Metamagic and Elemental Adept is likely not the most efficient way. Especially if you go for Elemental Adept, the fire spells simply do more damage without Empowered spell. E.g., instead of upcasting CB you could just cast Scorching Ray.
But I didn't mean to take away the fun of finding nice little interactions like these and playing around with them. I simply enjoy math ;)
There was only examples, but can get many, and allow players to try and choose.
Probably the pyromancer would want to put fire into the 8, instead 3, so if rolling in d8 3 and 8, and on d6 1-2, and decide to Empower it, reroll the 3 instead the 8 to try to maximize its preferred damage type. Another option is that, put your elemental adept at 2, so is not only for the chance of bouncing, but also to inflict your type of damage ignoring resistances, doing a bouncing bolt of ignoring resistance damage with 1-1, 1-2 and 2-2, and leave the damaging usage of Elemental Adept for the other spells. And allow to change later (level up or even long rest like seems now very popular at 1D&D) if the player is not convinced with that and prefer to put at 8 to maximize that damage type. Even ignoring the previous, you would want to put your preferred damage at 8 so you could choose it when rolling a 2 and 8, even without Metamagic or anything.
Of course can be done with homebrew, what I say is that could be that way to set as base in the core rules. Being Acid or Cold the always the lower, and Thunder the higher just because their letters, is not good, forces characters (if a player likes the acid damage, why not?), and is anything but a solid way to set the values.
The pyromancer probably would cast a spell that deals fire damage rather than one with a 23% chance of doing so. Same ist true for Elemental Adept. That is, if the player optimizes for damage. If not, the ordering of the list ist irrelevant. Therefore, imo, the benefit would not justify the additional complication of the spell and associated bookkeeping.
It is not about what seems relevant to each of us because that is at the end subjective, but for giving options to character. If you like more some kind of damage and want to use Empowered Spell, why not?. Specially if you rolled low values for the d6 too in an upcasted CB.
The alphabetical order is just so arbitrary.
I think it is about what is relevant, because given that elemental adept is already not a very good metamagic option than the choice to use the limited resources of sorcery points on using elemental adept to try and fish for a bounce when chaos bolt is already a lackluster spell.
It's not even doubling down on a bad spell it's tripling down. 1- Using a poor spell, 2- picking a poor metamagic to boost said spell, 3- using said metamagic on said spell instead of using sorcery points on other options going for a minor increased chance to try and make poor spell a little better. OR we could just use a spell that's better and pick metamagics that enhance our abilities more than elemental adept does
In fact that could help to balance the “poor spell”. If you know are going to fight against creatures with resistance/immunity you could put that damage at 1, the same for weakness and put it at 8.
The probability is the same but at least you set a priority. Against undead you put poison at 1, against frost salamander you put cold at 1 and fire at 8, etc.
In addition, checked that the tables changes depending the language, so in original English poison is at 6 while in Spanish is veneno at 8, then is a clear symptom that needs a fix.
If confirmed the new Sorcerer gets Chaos Bolt for free as class spell, I've thought about some points so it could fit better:
- With Elemental Adept we can increase to chance to bounce, if we roll 1 and 2 with the d8 dice, can convert the 1 into a 2 as the spell could be considered as the damage type for 2 that would be our choice for Elemental Adept.
- Metamagic.
- Chaos Bolt fixed damage type table. OK it is in alphabetical order for easier usage, but then always the same damage types are the higher and the lower ones.
With this, I think a good thing could be allow the character to customize the damage types table when learning the spell. So you could put at 2 the one you would want for bouncing if thinking about getting Elemental Adept, and could put what types of damages wants higher for specialization and Empowered Spell, for when you want to reach higher damages to not be always attached to that alphabetical order. In addition maybe allow to change it again at level up, like if relearning it.
* The combo with Elemental Adept increases the chance to bounce from 12.5% to 15.625%. Doesn't seem relevant to me.
* Empowered spell gives you an additional 12.5% on the reroll for a total of 23.4375%. also not too hot for a sorcery point.
* Combining both yields roughly 30% assuming that if one of the dice shows a 1 or 2 you only reroll the other one. But I still think theres way more powerfull applications for Empowered Spell (e.g. Fireball).
Making the ordering of the table customizable just seems unnecessarily complicated. Especially when considering that it would just give the false impression of having influence on the outcome. I think though that the ordering of damage types should be the reversed ordering of the chance that the target has resistance to the damage, i.e. Force should do the least damage, Poison the highest etc.
It is not about what seems relevant to each of us because that is at the end subjective, but for giving options to character. If you like more some kind of damage and want to use Empowered Spell, why not?. Specially if you rolled low values for the d6 too in an upcasted CB.
The alphabetical order is just so arbitrary.
Sure, there's nothing wrong with playing the game the way that is fun for you. And if you like those kinds of interactions and it makes you happy whenever you hit a second target with CB, go for it. I just provided the numbers to show that, if you want to maximize the damage output, combining CB with Metamagic and Elemental Adept is likely not the most efficient way. Especially if you go for Elemental Adept, the fire spells simply do more damage without Empowered spell. E.g., instead of upcasting CB you could just cast Scorching Ray.
But I didn't mean to take away the fun of finding nice little interactions like these and playing around with them. I simply enjoy math ;)
There was only examples, but can get many, and allow players to try and choose.
Probably the pyromancer would want to put fire into the 8, instead 3, so if rolling in d8 3 and 8, and on d6 1-2, and decide to Empower it, reroll the 3 instead the 8 to try to maximize its preferred damage type. Another option is that, put your elemental adept at 2, so is not only for the chance of bouncing, but also to inflict your type of damage ignoring resistances, doing a bouncing bolt of ignoring resistance damage with 1-1, 1-2 and 2-2, and leave the damaging usage of Elemental Adept for the other spells. And allow to change later (level up or even long rest like seems now very popular at 1D&D) if the player is not convinced with that and prefer to put at 8 to maximize that damage type. Even ignoring the previous, you would want to put your preferred damage at 8 so you could choose it when rolling a 2 and 8, even without Metamagic or anything.
Of course can be done with homebrew, what I say is that could be that way to set as base in the core rules. Being Acid or Cold the always the lower, and Thunder the higher just because their letters, is not good, forces characters (if a player likes the acid damage, why not?), and is anything but a solid way to set the values.
The pyromancer probably would cast a spell that deals fire damage rather than one with a 23% chance of doing so. Same ist true for Elemental Adept. That is, if the player optimizes for damage. If not, the ordering of the list ist irrelevant. Therefore, imo, the benefit would not justify the additional complication of the spell and associated bookkeeping.
I think it is about what is relevant, because given that elemental adept is already not a very good metamagic option than the choice to use the limited resources of sorcery points on using elemental adept to try and fish for a bounce when chaos bolt is already a lackluster spell.
It's not even doubling down on a bad spell it's tripling down. 1- Using a poor spell, 2- picking a poor metamagic to boost said spell, 3- using said metamagic on said spell instead of using sorcery points on other options going for a minor increased chance to try and make poor spell a little better. OR we could just use a spell that's better and pick metamagics that enhance our abilities more than elemental adept does
In fact that could help to balance the “poor spell”. If you know are going to fight against creatures with resistance/immunity you could put that damage at 1, the same for weakness and put it at 8.
The probability is the same but at least you set a priority. Against undead you put poison at 1, against frost salamander you put cold at 1 and fire at 8, etc.
In addition, checked that the tables changes depending the language, so in original English poison is at 6 while in Spanish is veneno at 8, then is a clear symptom that needs a fix.