In our current campaign, our group is about to reach level 4. I am a bit overwhelmed with the options I have when leveling up and would like to get your opinion on what will be particularly fun and also help the group. Our group consists of a Paladin (Oath of Conquest), a Monk (Way of the Drunken Master), a Ranger (Swarmkeeper) and my Warlock. My Warlock (Beyond Character Sheet) is a Fiend - Tomelock, previous Invocations are Devil's Sight and Agonizing Blast. My Dex and Charisma stats are 16 each, Con is at 14.
For the level up, the question I have is what to choose: - +2 Charisma - Feat: - Elemental Adept - Lucky - Spell Sniper - Eldritch Adept (with one of the following Invocation): - Book of Ancient Secrets - Aspect of the Moon - Eyes of the Rune Keeper - Eldritch Sight
Man, that link is handy for grabbing relevant info. Thanks! :D
Elemental Adept is particularly bad on you, since you can't choose Force. I also wouldn't burn a precious invocation on Aspect of the Moon - after all, if you really cared about that, you'd be an elf, or maybe a warforged. Eldritch Sight is also not nearly useful enough to warrant an invocation, not when you can take Book of Ancient Secrets and cast Detect Magic at will as a ritual. Eyes of the Rune Keeper has the same problem, since you can use Book of Ancient Secrets to cast Comprehend Languages as a ritual.
This may sound like I'm pushing BoAS as a feat, but I'm not. I think it makes a lot more sense to wait until level 5 and pick it up naturally. Instead, I think you need more Charisma.
Related: I think you should swap Burning Hands out. Its range is bad, and you're a long range blaster (if your GM is willing, I would also swap out Vicious Mockery). Other options for Burning Hands:
Invisibility is also useful for when you're close to the enemy, and will let you vamoose in a hurry.
Spider Climb will make you better at vamoosing.
Command will let you save or suck 2 targets at once, while Suggestion will only happen to one target but be more versatile.
Vicious Mockery is incredibly redundant on you, since you already have both Eldritch Blast and Mind Sliver (especially Mind Sliver). I just don't think you need a third damaging cantrip. I would pitch Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Shape Water, or Message to you before I pitched an offensive cantrip. Your other cantrips are perfectly chosen, though. I approve of your spell selection overall pretty hard. Note that you don't have an actual mechanic for cantrip swapping, so this would be with GM permission only.
Let's get a few things out of the way. The first is every time you level up you can trade out one spell known and one invocation for another. Combining darkness and Devil's Sight is a potent combination, I won't lie, but you also have blindness/deafness on your expanded spell list. Lean into that list. Yes, the aforementioned spell forces a Constitution saving throw. But you have a strong modifier for a high saving throw, it can target multiple creatures when cast at higher levels, and the rewards are greater because blinding the target means everyone has advantage on their attacks while the enemy is at disadvantage.
Right now, you could easily have blindness/deafness, command, and scorching ray as three of your four known spells. And all three of them scale with your Pact Magic. Spells like misty step are great, but you're already reliant on hex. Both compete for your bonus action, and you really don't want to be in a position where you need the quick getaway. Something that uses your reaction, like hellish rebuke would give you more flexibility and synergize with Elemental Adept (Fire); if that's what you elect to take. And it's a good feat since so much of your damage is, or will be, fire-based. But I don't think you're there yet.
Right now, out of all the nine spells your character knows, only two really care about your Charisma modifier: [Tooltip Not Found]. You should probably fix that. Now, if you had Pact of the Blade and were focusing on Dexterity for AC, Initiative, and melee attacks, then you could make a decent melee warlock with a low Charisma score. But right now, and I know you're only at 3rd-level, your current build isn't cohesive.
So, big picture, what do you want them to do? How do you envision them contributing to the party? Because, right now, I don't feel like I have enough information to help you realize your vision.
* Dump Devils Sight for Book of Ancient Secrets. Why be a Tomelock and not take the invocation that lets you be a really good ritual caster?
* Take the ASI in Charisma. That +2 is so much better than adding a feat.
* I'd take Jounichi's advice and swap Darkness for Blindness\Deafness, take either Invisibility or Spider Climb. You would be much more versatile, and an even better blaster.
Man, that link is handy for grabbing relevant info. Thanks! :D
Elemental Adept is particularly bad on you, since you can't choose Force. I also wouldn't burn a precious invocation on Aspect of the Moon - after all, if you really cared about that, you'd be an elf, or maybe a warforged. Eldritch Sight is also not nearly useful enough to warrant an invocation, not when you can take Book of Ancient Secrets and cast Detect Magic at will as a ritual. Eyes of the Rune Keeper has the same problem, since you can use Book of Ancient Secrets to cast Comprehend Languages as a ritual.
This may sound like I'm pushing BoAS as a feat, but I'm not. I think it makes a lot more sense to wait until level 5 and pick it up naturally. Instead, I think you need more Charisma.
Related: I think you should swap Burning Hands out. Its range is bad, and you're a long range blaster (if your GM is willing, I would also swap out Vicious Mockery). Other options for Burning Hands:
Invisibility is also useful for when you're close to the enemy, and will let you vamoose in a hurry.
Spider Climb will make you better at vamoosing.
Command will let you save or suck 2 targets at once, while Suggestion will only happen to one target but be more versatile.
Vicious Mockery is incredibly redundant on you, since you already have both Eldritch Blast and Mind Sliver (especially Mind Sliver). I just don't think you need a third damaging cantrip. I would pitch Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Shape Water, or Message to you before I pitched an offensive cantrip. Your other cantrips are perfectly chosen, though. I approve of your spell selection overall pretty hard. Note that you don't have an actual mechanic for cantrip swapping, so this would be with GM permission only.
@quindraco: I consulted with my DM and was allowed to adjust my cantrips.
Let's get a few things out of the way. The first is every time you level up you can trade out one spell known and one invocation for another. Combining darkness and Devil's Sight is a potent combination, I won't lie, but you also have blindness/deafness on your expanded spell list. Lean into that list. Yes, the aforementioned spell forces a Constitution saving throw. But you have a strong modifier for a high saving throw, it can target multiple creatures when cast at higher levels, and the rewards are greater because blinding the target means everyone has advantage on their attacks while the enemy is at disadvantage.
Right now, you could easily have blindness/deafness, command, and scorching ray as three of your four known spells. And all three of them scale with your Pact Magic. Spells like misty step are great, but you're already reliant on hex. Both compete for your bonus action, and you really don't want to be in a position where you need the quick getaway. Something that uses your reaction, like hellish rebuke would give you more flexibility and synergize with Elemental Adept (Fire); if that's what you elect to take. And it's a good feat since so much of your damage is, or will be, fire-based. But I don't think you're there yet.
Right now, out of all the nine spells your character knows, only two really care about your Charisma modifier: [Tooltip Not Found]. You should probably fix that. Now, if you had Pact of the Blade and were focusing on Dexterity for AC, Initiative, and melee attacks, then you could make a decent melee warlock with a low Charisma score. But right now, and I know you're only at 3rd-level, your current build isn't cohesive.
So, big picture, what do you want them to do? How do you envision them contributing to the party? Because, right now, I don't feel like I have enough information to help you realize your vision.
I didn't know about the fact that I can change invocations on level up, I read over that every time....
If I understand you correctly, I need to know what role I want in our party and what my "vision" is for my warlock so that it can be formed optimally (definitely makes sense). My goal was, or is, to do solid damage from afar and specifically weaken individual enemies or take them out of the fight for the time being. On the other hand, as the only "pure" caster, my intention with the Book of Shadows and with the Invocation Book of Ancient Secrets was to be able to perform the most generally useful rituals. From a purely character point of view, I don't hesitate to summon hell on earth just to protect my sister.
In a nutshell: - Sizzle enemies from afar - weaken stronger opponents/help the team fight them - outside the fights I want to be able to identify unknown artifacts and be useful for the "magic" stuff in other ways (e.g. with the ritutals Detect Magic, Identify, Find Familiar).
Have I been able to explain my intended function somewhat with this information, or is there anything else you would like to know?
+2 Cha -Cha is going to be your + hit, spell save dc, and +damage to EB, and will give you more temp HP on kills from your dark ones blessing as well as upping your social checks. Max this first before considering feats.
Dump devils sight for BoAS, (I know you took human without a which really hurts if you are in the dark. Take mage hand next level and have it carry your torch for you) -Take find familiar and detect magic (use detect magic to sweep areas after you have cleared them, as a DM I can't tell you how many magical items get left behind that this would find) -You can cast your guidance through your familiar, so it will basically have a permanent +d4 to its checks as a scout, or put it in your rangers pocket and give him the +d4. -Rituals casting is going to be super useful for your group since there is no one else that can do it.
The advantage of darkness/devilsight is great, but you are giving up your hex damage for it, and you are putting up a huge area where your party can't see, and that enemies can just walk out of. I generally stay away from it just because giving yourself advantage at the cost of your entire party not being able to see can be really disruptive for everyone else and might end up being a net negative in combat.
I would definitely go with increasing your charisma to 20 ASAP. That’s too useful for almost all spell casters to pick a feat before your casting ability is up to 20. There are some builds where a feat is better, but they’re rare.
I also agree with picking Mage Hand or Mending as your cantrip because you don’t need another damaging cantrip and those are two extremely useful utility cantrips.
I would dump Burning Hands and replace it with Shatter (your only ranged area of effect spell) and I’d pick any other 2nd level spell that appeals to you. You’re a cantrip caster with a couple of spell slots, you’re not using your leveled spells very often. Invisibility isn’t a bad choice to cast on other party members and neither is Charm Person since it automatically hits 2 targets instead of 1 for you.
Let's get a few things out of the way. The first is every time you level up you can trade out one spell known and one invocation for another. Combining darkness and Devil's Sight is a potent combination, I won't lie, but you also have blindness/deafness on your expanded spell list. Lean into that list. Yes, the aforementioned spell forces a Constitution saving throw. But you have a strong modifier for a high saving throw, it can target multiple creatures when cast at higher levels, and the rewards are greater because blinding the target means everyone has advantage on their attacks while the enemy is at disadvantage.
Right now, you could easily have blindness/deafness, command, and scorching ray as three of your four known spells. And all three of them scale with your Pact Magic. Spells like misty step are great, but you're already reliant on hex. Both compete for your bonus action, and you really don't want to be in a position where you need the quick getaway. Something that uses your reaction, like hellish rebuke would give you more flexibility and synergize with Elemental Adept (Fire); if that's what you elect to take. And it's a good feat since so much of your damage is, or will be, fire-based. But I don't think you're there yet.
Right now, out of all the nine spells your character knows, only two really care about your Charisma modifier: [Tooltip Not Found]. You should probably fix that. Now, if you had Pact of the Blade and were focusing on Dexterity for AC, Initiative, and melee attacks, then you could make a decent melee warlock with a low Charisma score. But right now, and I know you're only at 3rd-level, your current build isn't cohesive.
So, big picture, what do you want them to do? How do you envision them contributing to the party? Because, right now, I don't feel like I have enough information to help you realize your vision.
I didn't know about the fact that I can change invocations on level up, I read over that every time....
If I understand you correctly, I need to know what role I want in our party and what my "vision" is for my warlock so that it can be formed optimally (definitely makes sense). My goal was, or is, to do solid damage from afar and specifically weaken individual enemies or take them out of the fight for the time being. On the other hand, as the only "pure" caster, my intention with the Book of Shadows and with the Invocation Book of Ancient Secrets was to be able to perform the most generally useful rituals. From a purely character point of view, I don't hesitate to summon hell on earth just to protect my sister.
In a nutshell: - Sizzle enemies from afar - weaken stronger opponents/help the team fight them - outside the fights I want to be able to identify unknown artifacts and be useful for the "magic" stuff in other ways (e.g. with the ritutals Detect Magic, Identify, Find Familiar).
Have I been able to explain my intended function somewhat with this information, or is there anything else you would like to know?
Yes, and here are my suggestions going forward. At 4th-level:
A new cantrip from the Warlock spell list. If your DM is friendly to the optional rules presented in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, see if they'll allow your minor illusion to fill this niche and pick a cantrip that's not on the warlock spell list. I suggest light.
Trade out...
The darkness for [spell]blindness/deafness[/item].
The Devil's Sight invocation for Book of Ancient Secrets and learn two 1st-level spells with the Ritual tag. But be mindful of material components. I won't lie, [identify], but it won't help you without a pearl worth at least 100 gp.
With these changes, instead of having only 1/4 leveled spells that make use of your Spell Attack Bonus or Saving Throw DC, you'll have 3/5. And start working with your DM to find what you need to expand your repetoir of ritual spells. Some will have to be found or bought as spell scrolls. As far as invocations go, Devil's Sight is pretty good. But it also has a glaring weakness: it only works in Darkness. If you don't have Darkvision, then the invocation won't help you see in Dim Light.
###
Things will be a lot better once you hit 5th-level. Comboing eldritch blast with hex is highly effective; dealing potentially (19) 2d10+8 force damage and 7 (2d6) necrotic damage per round against a single target. But it will also leave you with, at most, only one other spell slot per fight. You may not always want to do that. Still, work with your party to capitalize on that disadvantage to ability checks. Wisdom was already recommended, because it disadvantages Perception, but also look at Strength and/or Dexterity. You can make getting out of a grapple or net very difficult. And if you disadvantage an enemy spellcaster's spellcasting ability, then a hypothetical counterspell becomes less of a problem for you.
Consider learning the Mire the Mind invocation so you can cast slow with a warlock spell slot. Also, learn command and trade out burning hands for [/spell]fireball[/spell].
Hello all
In our current campaign, our group is about to reach level 4.
I am a bit overwhelmed with the options I have when leveling up and would like to get your opinion on what will be particularly fun and also help the group.
Our group consists of a Paladin (Oath of Conquest), a Monk (Way of the Drunken Master), a Ranger (Swarmkeeper) and my Warlock.
My Warlock (Beyond Character Sheet) is a Fiend - Tomelock, previous Invocations are Devil's Sight and Agonizing Blast. My Dex and Charisma stats are 16 each, Con is at 14.
For the level up, the question I have is what to choose:
- +2 Charisma
- Feat: - Elemental Adept
- Lucky
- Spell Sniper
- Eldritch Adept (with one of the following Invocation):
- Book of Ancient Secrets
- Aspect of the Moon
- Eyes of the Rune Keeper
- Eldritch Sight
What do you think is the most sensible choice?
Thanks for your feedback.
Man, that link is handy for grabbing relevant info. Thanks! :D
Elemental Adept is particularly bad on you, since you can't choose Force. I also wouldn't burn a precious invocation on Aspect of the Moon - after all, if you really cared about that, you'd be an elf, or maybe a warforged. Eldritch Sight is also not nearly useful enough to warrant an invocation, not when you can take Book of Ancient Secrets and cast Detect Magic at will as a ritual. Eyes of the Rune Keeper has the same problem, since you can use Book of Ancient Secrets to cast Comprehend Languages as a ritual.
This may sound like I'm pushing BoAS as a feat, but I'm not. I think it makes a lot more sense to wait until level 5 and pick it up naturally. Instead, I think you need more Charisma.
Related: I think you should swap Burning Hands out. Its range is bad, and you're a long range blaster (if your GM is willing, I would also swap out Vicious Mockery). Other options for Burning Hands:
Vicious Mockery is incredibly redundant on you, since you already have both Eldritch Blast and Mind Sliver (especially Mind Sliver). I just don't think you need a third damaging cantrip. I would pitch Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Shape Water, or Message to you before I pitched an offensive cantrip. Your other cantrips are perfectly chosen, though. I approve of your spell selection overall pretty hard. Note that you don't have an actual mechanic for cantrip swapping, so this would be with GM permission only.
Let's get a few things out of the way. The first is every time you level up you can trade out one spell known and one invocation for another. Combining darkness and Devil's Sight is a potent combination, I won't lie, but you also have blindness/deafness on your expanded spell list. Lean into that list. Yes, the aforementioned spell forces a Constitution saving throw. But you have a strong modifier for a high saving throw, it can target multiple creatures when cast at higher levels, and the rewards are greater because blinding the target means everyone has advantage on their attacks while the enemy is at disadvantage.
Right now, you could easily have blindness/deafness, command, and scorching ray as three of your four known spells. And all three of them scale with your Pact Magic. Spells like misty step are great, but you're already reliant on hex. Both compete for your bonus action, and you really don't want to be in a position where you need the quick getaway. Something that uses your reaction, like hellish rebuke would give you more flexibility and synergize with Elemental Adept (Fire); if that's what you elect to take. And it's a good feat since so much of your damage is, or will be, fire-based. But I don't think you're there yet.
Right now, out of all the nine spells your character knows, only two really care about your Charisma modifier: [Tooltip Not Found]. You should probably fix that. Now, if you had Pact of the Blade and were focusing on Dexterity for AC, Initiative, and melee attacks, then you could make a decent melee warlock with a low Charisma score. But right now, and I know you're only at 3rd-level, your current build isn't cohesive.
So, big picture, what do you want them to do? How do you envision them contributing to the party? Because, right now, I don't feel like I have enough information to help you realize your vision.
You should;
* Dump Devils Sight for Book of Ancient Secrets. Why be a Tomelock and not take the invocation that lets you be a really good ritual caster?
* Take the ASI in Charisma. That +2 is so much better than adding a feat.
* I'd take Jounichi's advice and swap Darkness for Blindness\Deafness, take either Invisibility or Spider Climb. You would be much more versatile, and an even better blaster.
Hi there
First of all, thank you for your feedback and your tips, you have already helped me.
@quindraco:
I consulted with my DM and was allowed to adjust my cantrips.
I didn't know about the fact that I can change invocations on level up, I read over that every time....
If I understand you correctly, I need to know what role I want in our party and what my "vision" is for my warlock so that it can be formed optimally (definitely makes sense).
My goal was, or is, to do solid damage from afar and specifically weaken individual enemies or take them out of the fight for the time being.
On the other hand, as the only "pure" caster, my intention with the Book of Shadows and with the Invocation Book of Ancient Secrets was to be able to perform the most generally useful rituals.
From a purely character point of view, I don't hesitate to summon hell on earth just to protect my sister.
In a nutshell:
- Sizzle enemies from afar
- weaken stronger opponents/help the team fight them
- outside the fights I want to be able to identify unknown artifacts and be useful for the "magic" stuff in other ways (e.g. with the ritutals Detect Magic, Identify, Find Familiar).
Have I been able to explain my intended function somewhat with this information, or is there anything else you would like to know?
Yeah I agree with what the other said.
+2 Cha
-Cha is going to be your + hit, spell save dc, and +damage to EB, and will give you more temp HP on kills from your dark ones blessing as well as upping your social checks. Max this first before considering feats.
Dump devils sight for BoAS, (I know you took human without a which really hurts if you are in the dark. Take mage hand next level and have it carry your torch for you)
-Take find familiar and detect magic (use detect magic to sweep areas after you have cleared them, as a DM I can't tell you how many magical items get left behind that this would find)
-You can cast your guidance through your familiar, so it will basically have a permanent +d4 to its checks as a scout, or put it in your rangers pocket and give him the +d4.
-Rituals casting is going to be super useful for your group since there is no one else that can do it.
The advantage of darkness/devilsight is great, but you are giving up your hex damage for it, and you are putting up a huge area where your party can't see, and that enemies can just walk out of. I generally stay away from it just because giving yourself advantage at the cost of your entire party not being able to see can be really disruptive for everyone else and might end up being a net negative in combat.
I would definitely go with increasing your charisma to 20 ASAP. That’s too useful for almost all spell casters to pick a feat before your casting ability is up to 20. There are some builds where a feat is better, but they’re rare.
I also agree with picking Mage Hand or Mending as your cantrip because you don’t need another damaging cantrip and those are two extremely useful utility cantrips.
I would dump Burning Hands and replace it with Shatter (your only ranged area of effect spell) and I’d pick any other 2nd level spell that appeals to you. You’re a cantrip caster with a couple of spell slots, you’re not using your leveled spells very often. Invisibility isn’t a bad choice to cast on other party members and neither is Charm Person since it automatically hits 2 targets instead of 1 for you.
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Yes, and here are my suggestions going forward. At 4th-level:
With these changes, instead of having only 1/4 leveled spells that make use of your Spell Attack Bonus or Saving Throw DC, you'll have 3/5. And start working with your DM to find what you need to expand your repetoir of ritual spells. Some will have to be found or bought as spell scrolls. As far as invocations go, Devil's Sight is pretty good. But it also has a glaring weakness: it only works in Darkness. If you don't have Darkvision, then the invocation won't help you see in Dim Light.
###
Things will be a lot better once you hit 5th-level. Comboing eldritch blast with hex is highly effective; dealing potentially (19) 2d10+8 force damage and 7 (2d6) necrotic damage per round against a single target. But it will also leave you with, at most, only one other spell slot per fight. You may not always want to do that. Still, work with your party to capitalize on that disadvantage to ability checks. Wisdom was already recommended, because it disadvantages Perception, but also look at Strength and/or Dexterity. You can make getting out of a grapple or net very difficult. And if you disadvantage an enemy spellcaster's spellcasting ability, then a hypothetical counterspell becomes less of a problem for you.
Consider learning the Mire the Mind invocation so you can cast slow with a warlock spell slot. Also, learn command and trade out burning hands for [/spell]fireball[/spell].