After seeing a video from Treantmonk on high level Warlock spells and that if you wanted a hoard of zombies you could: use Finger of Death to create a zombie that's permanently under your control and Demiplane to store them for when combat comes around. Well you were to use True polymorph you could turn that zombie into an Ancient Brass Dragon that is fully under your control and the Ancient Brass Dragon get's shapechange and can turn into a humanoid. Kobolds are humanoids, so if I were to do this everyday, kill a humanoid with Finger of Death, cast True Polymorph on it and concentrate on the spell for a full minute, tell it to shapechange into a Kobold and chuck it into my demiplane.
How many kobolds (or other small humanoids, too make the best use of the space) can you fit into a Demiplane? For my Hoard of Dragons.
Kobolds should be reptilian race instead of humanoid. It is written yet in their descrition, on the Monsters Manual.
Description
Kobolds are craven reptilian humanoids that commonly infest dungeons. They make up for their physical ineptitude with a cleverness for trap making.
Several reptillian species are still humanoid. That is why kobolds are humanoid. Just like basically all goblinoid races are still humanoid races. this is why humanoids have a varied array of subclassifications and Rangers have to pick subclassifications when they pick humanoid as a favored enemy.
Demiplane creates an empty room 30 feet to a side, so that's 900 sqft; Kobolds are small, so "control" 2.5 sqft of space; that gives a figure of 144, without squeezing, or stacking. Bear in mind that the spell does not specify the climate or breathable air in the room; since True Polymorph and Shapechange both state that you assume the target's game statistics, that might include the need for the dragon and or kobold to breath, or they would eventually begin suffocating, at which point they drop to 0HP, and the spell ends, leaving you with a bunch of Zombies.
Demiplane would presumably specify if it had finite air, as all pocket dimensions with finite air do (see e.g. bags of holding), and it's normal for planes to not mention they're breathable despite being clearly intended as such, like the Feywild. OTOH, it's very clear a Demiplane has no food, no water, and finite volume (so you can't just keep providing them with food and water - they'll be peeing and pooping the whole time).
Also, it's 27000 cubic feet, not 900 square feet. If you assume a kobold is a 2.5 foot on a side cube, that's 1,728 kobolds even. Your kobolds will need some sort of rig to avoid squashing each other - yet another unstated rule of planar mechanics is that you assume about 1g of gravity unless told otherwise (too many planes run into too many problems if you assume 0g, and 2g would actively kill almost all extraplanar entities).
If you went in with wood and fabricate and had the skills you could probably build 5 additional floors for them, basically 5 foot ceilings but since wood and beams have a cetrtian level of thickness that would be a safe bet to fit a kobol, I'd say, A DM might go shorter floors for more total levels but at 5' it would be 6 total levels for 4500 sq feet, at 4 foot floors it adds 1 level. Any ways at 5 foot floors it wold be about 864 of them. Unless you think you can almost stack them like firewood as quindraco is suggesting.
You can theoretically do this a little under three times a day, so it'll take about 6.5(Quindraco) or 3.26 years(MyDudeicus) without time to do anything else. It would realistically take even longer.
You can theoretically do this a little under three times a day, so it'll take about 6.5(Quindraco) or 3.26 years(MyDudeicus) without time to do anything else. It would realistically take even longer.
Well yeah the finger of death zombie horde is always about a long long term plan. At this scale I don't really see it for PCs except maybe as a epilogue. Though in your standard gameplay, you might have a demiplane filled with 100 of them. That could make any end campaign fight a bit different.
Stacking and sqeezing is fine. They were ''recruited'' with Finger of Death so they are already a zombie, but through True Polymorph they have the stats and abilities of an Ancient Brass Dragon (which has the shapechange ability) or so I would assume. So you can just stockpile them like the zombies in the movie World War Z.
When you then need them you cast Demiplane (my quick calculations that I did later gave me the following. 30x30x30=27000ft³ devided by kobold space 3ft (or maybe more)=9000 and at adding 1 kobold a day (warlocks can only cast their Mystic Arcana once a day) devided by 365=24+ years.
When these kobolds then flock out of the Demiplane you have what at first sight looks like an unimpressive army of kobolds (or other small creatures) and then they all turn into Ancient Brass Dragons at your command. I don't care how many hitpoints your BBEG has, having to fight 9000+ lvl 20 dragons is going to end the fight quickly. Afterwards you of course send them back into the Demiplane
Edit: after looking at the description again it can also be a beast so how many (shapechanged zombie) rats would fit into a Demiplane?
''
Change Shape. The dragon magically polymorphs into a humanoid or beast that has a challenge rating no higher than its own, or back into its true form. It reverts to its true form if it dies. Any equipment it is wearing or carrying is absorbed or borne by the new form (the dragon's choice).
In a new form, the dragon retains its alignment, hit points, Hit Dice, ability to speak, proficiencies, Legendary Resistance, lair actions, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores, as well as this action. Its statistics and capabilities are otherwise replaced by those of the new form, except any class features or legendary actions of that form.''
2 points 1 I am not sure they would still be under your control, they are no longer a zombie so why are they under your control. I get it says permanently under your command, but its transformed into a zombie that is permanently under your command, I'd say the zombie part is a condition of the command part. 2 you can't true polymorph a zombie into a ancient brass dragon, you can transofrm things into less powerful creatures not more powerful creatures. At best and its still powerful you could finger of death small sized enemies and theyd turn into small zombies, and store a shit ton of small zombies in one.
I'm pretty sure the CR rating would based the users level not the targets. A rock doesn't have a CR rating but can still be True Polymorphed into a creature. As for control part, this would depend on your stance regarding implicit versus explicit and I haven't found anything in the description that says that it has to keep the same shape for you to be able to control them. Otherwise you could turn a necromancers zombies against him using polymorph and I have never heard of that being used as a strategy.
I had initially assumed it was based on the casters level, but that is not how its phrased. Why you can turn a rock into anything its size with just a cap of CR 9 but have to worry about CR with creature to creature based on the creature. I don't know and I'll admit it makes no sense so maybe they intend it to be based on caster level.but it says the new form can be any kind you choose whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's. As it specifies target, I can't see a way to read it any other way.
As for the control, sure its a interpretation. And sure we have not heard of such strategies before. Likely because it would be a incredibly inefficient one. Transforming 1 zombie into a t-rex while cool, is probably less effective than just fireball them and killing them en masse. Similarly though, why is it when we hear about necromancers laying assault to places it is with zombies and not with humans who walk into town and then suddenly transform into ancient dragons. You don't even need to waste time with demi plane, they just stroll into town looking innocent and human like and suddenly 1000 ancient dragons blanket the sky and destroy any city in the world in a instant. You'd think if that worked it wold be done more often, as in ever.
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After seeing a video from Treantmonk on high level Warlock spells and that if you wanted a hoard of zombies you could: use Finger of Death to create a zombie that's permanently under your control and Demiplane to store them for when combat comes around. Well you were to use True polymorph you could turn that zombie into an Ancient Brass Dragon that is fully under your control and the Ancient Brass Dragon get's shapechange and can turn into a humanoid. Kobolds are humanoids, so if I were to do this everyday, kill a humanoid with Finger of Death, cast True Polymorph on it and concentrate on the spell for a full minute, tell it to shapechange into a Kobold and chuck it into my demiplane.
How many kobolds (or other small humanoids, too make the best use of the space) can you fit into a Demiplane? For my Hoard of Dragons.
Kobolds should be reptilian race instead of humanoid. It is written yet in their descrition, on the Monsters Manual.
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
Several reptillian species are still humanoid. That is why kobolds are humanoid. Just like basically all goblinoid races are still humanoid races. this is why humanoids have a varied array of subclassifications and Rangers have to pick subclassifications when they pick humanoid as a favored enemy.
Demiplane would presumably specify if it had finite air, as all pocket dimensions with finite air do (see e.g. bags of holding), and it's normal for planes to not mention they're breathable despite being clearly intended as such, like the Feywild. OTOH, it's very clear a Demiplane has no food, no water, and finite volume (so you can't just keep providing them with food and water - they'll be peeing and pooping the whole time).
Also, it's 27000 cubic feet, not 900 square feet. If you assume a kobold is a 2.5 foot on a side cube, that's 1,728 kobolds even. Your kobolds will need some sort of rig to avoid squashing each other - yet another unstated rule of planar mechanics is that you assume about 1g of gravity unless told otherwise (too many planes run into too many problems if you assume 0g, and 2g would actively kill almost all extraplanar entities).
If you went in with wood and fabricate and had the skills you could probably build 5 additional floors for them, basically 5 foot ceilings but since wood and beams have a cetrtian level of thickness that would be a safe bet to fit a kobol, I'd say, A DM might go shorter floors for more total levels but at 5' it would be 6 total levels for 4500 sq feet, at 4 foot floors it adds 1 level. Any ways at 5 foot floors it wold be about 864 of them. Unless you think you can almost stack them like firewood as quindraco is suggesting.
You can theoretically do this a little under three times a day, so it'll take about 6.5(Quindraco) or 3.26 years(MyDudeicus) without time to do anything else. It would realistically take even longer.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
Still, as a DM, it would be insane to have some kind of Evil Mother Ginger miniboss who had this legion of kobolds under her giant skirts.
Well yeah the finger of death zombie horde is always about a long long term plan. At this scale I don't really see it for PCs except maybe as a epilogue. Though in your standard gameplay, you might have a demiplane filled with 100 of them. That could make any end campaign fight a bit different.
Stacking and sqeezing is fine. They were ''recruited'' with Finger of Death so they are already a zombie, but through True Polymorph they have the stats and abilities of an Ancient Brass Dragon (which has the shapechange ability) or so I would assume. So you can just stockpile them like the zombies in the movie World War Z.
When you then need them you cast Demiplane (my quick calculations that I did later gave me the following. 30x30x30=27000ft³ devided by kobold space 3ft (or maybe more)=9000 and at adding 1 kobold a day (warlocks can only cast their Mystic Arcana once a day) devided by 365=24+ years.
When these kobolds then flock out of the Demiplane you have what at first sight looks like an unimpressive army of kobolds (or other small creatures) and then they all turn into Ancient Brass Dragons at your command.
I don't care how many hitpoints your BBEG has, having to fight 9000+ lvl 20 dragons is going to end the fight quickly. Afterwards you of course send them back into the Demiplane
Edit: after looking at the description again it can also be a beast so how many (shapechanged zombie) rats would fit into a Demiplane?
''
Change Shape. The dragon magically polymorphs into a humanoid or beast that has a challenge rating no higher than its own, or back into its true form. It reverts to its true form if it dies. Any equipment it is wearing or carrying is absorbed or borne by the new form (the dragon's choice).
In a new form, the dragon retains its alignment, hit points, Hit Dice, ability to speak, proficiencies, Legendary Resistance, lair actions, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores, as well as this action. Its statistics and capabilities are otherwise replaced by those of the new form, except any class features or legendary actions of that form.''
2 points 1 I am not sure they would still be under your control, they are no longer a zombie so why are they under your control. I get it says permanently under your command, but its transformed into a zombie that is permanently under your command, I'd say the zombie part is a condition of the command part. 2 you can't true polymorph a zombie into a ancient brass dragon, you can transofrm things into less powerful creatures not more powerful creatures. At best and its still powerful you could finger of death small sized enemies and theyd turn into small zombies, and store a shit ton of small zombies in one.
I'm pretty sure the CR rating would based the users level not the targets. A rock doesn't have a CR rating but can still be True Polymorphed into a creature. As for control part, this would depend on your stance regarding implicit versus explicit and I haven't found anything in the description that says that it has to keep the same shape for you to be able to control them. Otherwise you could turn a necromancers zombies against him using polymorph and I have never heard of that being used as a strategy.
I had initially assumed it was based on the casters level, but that is not how its phrased. Why you can turn a rock into anything its size with just a cap of CR 9 but have to worry about CR with creature to creature based on the creature. I don't know and I'll admit it makes no sense so maybe they intend it to be based on caster level.but it says the new form can be any kind you choose whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's. As it specifies target, I can't see a way to read it any other way.
As for the control, sure its a interpretation. And sure we have not heard of such strategies before. Likely because it would be a incredibly inefficient one. Transforming 1 zombie into a t-rex while cool, is probably less effective than just fireball them and killing them en masse. Similarly though, why is it when we hear about necromancers laying assault to places it is with zombies and not with humans who walk into town and then suddenly transform into ancient dragons. You don't even need to waste time with demi plane, they just stroll into town looking innocent and human like and suddenly 1000 ancient dragons blanket the sky and destroy any city in the world in a instant. You'd think if that worked it wold be done more often, as in ever.