I have a third level dwarven fighter (Battle Master). I've been fighting with a glaive, intending to take Polearm Master at 4th level (and possibly sentinel and great weapon mastery at higher levels).
However, I just received a magic sword. I assume it is +1, and it also likely does something else (not sure what - it's from Sunken Citadel, but I don't want to spoil whatever it is, and my PC hasn't discovered what it is yet).
I am the only PC in the entire party that could use a long sword. The other front line melee combatant is a half orc druid who uses shillelagh. We have a warlock and a bard as well, but the warlock cannot use a longsword and the bard does not want to use one. So it's my fighter, or we sell it.
I am not really opposed to the idea of using a londsword and shield. I took Defense as my fighter ability, and wear heavy armor (currently splint mail). I believe my average damage will remain the same (going from 1d10 for the glaive to 1d8+1 for the longsword, which means both have an average of 5.5). And I'd have one of the only magic items in the whole party, so I could do full damage to foes who resist non-magic weapons that we are likely to encounter in the future.
However I lose the flexibility of the reach of the glaive, and the extra attack from Polearm Mast, and the ability to make opportunity attacks when foes enter my reach from polearm mastery.
I could of course take a different feat, like Shield Master. That allows a bonus action to shove a foe, which is nice as I have an 18 strength and athletics training. Once they are on the ground, I'd get advantage attacking them, as would my melee ally.
And of course I'd have a shield, which would bump my AC up to 20 - a very respectable AC.
But I am not sure it's worth the trade-off from Polearm Mastery and the flexibility of reach. I only have a 25 foot move, and so if I drop a foe with my first attack, once I have a second attack (or a bonus action attack) it's often difficult to actually make it to another foe with my remaining movement. Using a polearm often allowed me to reach two targets in a single turn when otherwise I wouldn't have been able to.
So my question is to those of you who have used a sword & board approach in 5e. How did it work out? What do you think the trade offs are between polearm use and a sword and board? What other feats did you choose for your sword and board? Any interesting combinations with Battle Master maneuvers? Other things I should be aware of?
Duelist does a bang-up job of making sword-and-board a solid option. If you go that route, I'd personally focus on maxing STR before taking feats. It's mostly a matter of personal preference. Movement might not be as much of an issue as you think - as long as you keep your marching order such that you're the one who likely gets mobbed.
Keep in mind that regardless of what you decide, you can always hang onto it for attacking foes that resist or ignore nonmagical attacks, or for times you're fighting in close quarters. And while selling magic items isn't straightforward in this edition, it can make a really solid gift, for assistance from NPCs or to convince a monster (e.g., a dragon) to not eat you.
Duelist does a bang-up job of making sword-and-board a solid option. If you go that route, I'd personally focus on maxing STR before taking feats. It's mostly a matter of personal preference. Movement might not be as much of an issue as you think - as long as you keep your marching order such that you're the one who likely gets mobbed.
Keep in mind that regardless of what you decide, you can always hang onto it for attacking foes that resist or ignore nonmagical attacks, or for times you're fighting in close quarters. And while selling magic items isn't straightforward in this edition, it can make a really solid gift, for assistance from NPCs or to convince a monster (e.g., a dragon) to not eat you.
I selected Defense at 1st level and will not get an opportunity to select Duelist as a Fighting Style. I also already maxed strength. As for marching order...we tend to spread out based on initiative order and varying movements. With a 25 move and a dex mod of +0, I do not usually end up where I want to be relative to the rest of the party.
Sorry, I missed bits and pieces in the original post. Honestly, at this point I think it's personal preference - i.e., which do you think is cooler? It sounds to me like you want to stick with polearm, and I do love the idea of a dwarf that goes around kneecapping giants with a halberd. Like I said, it's a good idea to hang onto the longsword anyway - one of the Fighter's main drawbacks is no capacity to bypass weapon resistances, which a simple magic weapon solves entirely. Does no harm to sit in a scabbard as a failsafe.
Just to play devil's advocate, if you do go sword and board, you could look at the Mobile feat. In addition to the +10 bonus to footspeed, it lets you move past opponents and terrain to get yourself into the "monster clump".
I believe my average damage will remain the same (going from 1d10 for the glaive to 1d8+1 for the longsword, which means both have an average of 5.5).
The longsword is versatile too, so you could wield it with two hands and do 1d10 +1. As for the feat choices, a fighter gets a lot of feats so you could plan to acquire shield master and polearm master and be ready for different situations, bearing gear to switch around as needed. At any rate, you got a magic sword, congrats!
I believe my average damage will remain the same (going from 1d10 for the glaive to 1d8+1 for the longsword, which means both have an average of 5.5).
Note that 1d8+1 is generally better than 1d10, as consistency generally in your favor. You can use the "Great Weapon Fighting" fighting style to reroll 1s or 2s with the two-handed weapon, which is roughly equivalent — but nowhere as good as the straight +2 bonus for Dualing with a one-handed weapon (and note that you can use this with a shield).
Polearm master is neat, but remember that the extra attack is a bonus action. Several of the Battle Master maneuvers consume bonus actions (as does second wind), so it's not really as good as another attack.
The PC is 3rd level already. I cannot retroactively change things like Dueling and Great Weapon Fighting. He has Defense, and that's that unless I get to the high level where Fighters can choose another one.
As for Battle Master maneuvers, I have Precision, Riposte, and Trip. Only Commanders Strike, Feint, and Rally use a bonus action, and frankly I don't like any of those and don't imagine I would ever choose them.
The PC is 3rd level already. I cannot retroactively change things like Dueling and Great Weapon Fighting. He has Defense, and that's that unless I get to the high level where Fighters can choose another one.
Only Champion fighters get a second Fighting Style.
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Are you sure you aren't able to make retroactive changes? Many DMs are quite understanding and flexible, especially at low levels. (It's even the Adventurer's League rule that almost *anything* can be changed up to level 4.)
Are you sure you aren't able to make retroactive changes? Many DMs are quite understanding and flexible, especially at low levels. (It's even the Adventurer's League rule that almost *anything* can be changed up to level 4.)
I suppose I could ask.
So far I've been using the longsword two-handed for the slight boost to damage and enjoying it. I have yet to shatter a single object with it though.
If you change back and forth whenever you find new treasure, that's probably less well accepted, but as a DM if events in the campaign inspire my players to take their characters in directions they hadn't anticipated, I try to support that. 5E doesn't offer tons of "slots" for character customization features, so I'm generally flexible with "retraining" those.
I play a sword and shield battlemaster fighter, and there are some really fun and powerful combinations that you can string together. For example:
1. Take Shield Master feat
2. Shove prone with shield (bonus action)
3. Drop shield (donning and doffing a shield consumes one Action, per PHB, so don't doff)
4. Menacing attack with Advantage and d10 damage die (longsword used with both hands), doing extra superiority die damage and imposing Frightened condition)
5. Using Extra Attack, Grapple, which the target is at a disadvantage to contest (Frightened condition causes disadvantage on ability checks)
6. End turn. Target is now prone, and so has disadvantage on attacks. Target is also frightened, and so has disadvantage on attacks and ability rolls. Target must use entire action to escape grapple. Target is also at a disadvantage to escape grapple. If target doesn't attempt to escape grapple, but attacks you and misses, then Riposte.
7. If target doesn't escape grapple, just mercilessly stab it to death with advantage. If target escapes grapple and stands up, use Trip Attack and then Grapple on next turn to maintain grapple, rather than consuming action by donning shield.
Another potent combination is using Disarming Attack on a grappled target, then moving the target away from the object that it has dropped, such as its weapon, Arcane Focus or shield.
Take Magic Initiate feat and Create Bonfire cantrip underneath grappled target.
If your DM is willing to retroactively change things, it seems like it would be easier to change the +1 sword to a +1 glaive than to retroactively rebuild your character.
I prefer the sword and board over two handed weapons. The extra defense a shield provides, plus shield master feat makes up for the little bit of damage you give up as a fighter
For those curious, I did go with sword and board (now level 5). DM did allow me to change to Dueling. I took Shield Master...sometimes useful, sometimes not. I've just found a frostbrand handaxe, which I may switch to instead of the magic sword.
Sivashor I do like your suggestions. I may need to take a second look at Menacing Attack.
I play a sword and shield battlemaster fighter, and there are some really fun and powerful combinations that you can string together. For example:
1. Take Shield Master feat
2. Shove prone with shield (bonus action)
3. Drop shield (donning and doffing a shield consumes one Action, per PHB, so don't doff)
4. Menacing attack with Advantage and d10 damage die (longsword used with both hands), doing extra superiority die damage and imposing Frightened condition)
5. Using Extra Attack, Grapple, which the target is at a disadvantage to contest (Frightened condition causes disadvantage on ability checks)
....
Interesting. I'm new to D&D 5e so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but reading the feat I'm not sure you can play it that way. [feat]Shield master[/feat] states,
If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield.
As a DM, I'd argue that even though the order of -- movement, action, bonus action -- can generally vary, in this case the Feat fixes the order to Action THEN Bonus Action. Is there a rule somewhere that says otherwise?
I have a third level dwarven fighter (Battle Master). I've been fighting with a glaive, intending to take Polearm Master at 4th level (and possibly sentinel and great weapon mastery at higher levels).
However, I just received a magic sword. I assume it is +1, and it also likely does something else (not sure what - it's from Sunken Citadel, but I don't want to spoil whatever it is, and my PC hasn't discovered what it is yet).
I am the only PC in the entire party that could use a long sword. The other front line melee combatant is a half orc druid who uses shillelagh. We have a warlock and a bard as well, but the warlock cannot use a longsword and the bard does not want to use one. So it's my fighter, or we sell it.
I am not really opposed to the idea of using a londsword and shield. I took Defense as my fighter ability, and wear heavy armor (currently splint mail). I believe my average damage will remain the same (going from 1d10 for the glaive to 1d8+1 for the longsword, which means both have an average of 5.5). And I'd have one of the only magic items in the whole party, so I could do full damage to foes who resist non-magic weapons that we are likely to encounter in the future.
However I lose the flexibility of the reach of the glaive, and the extra attack from Polearm Mast, and the ability to make opportunity attacks when foes enter my reach from polearm mastery.
I could of course take a different feat, like Shield Master. That allows a bonus action to shove a foe, which is nice as I have an 18 strength and athletics training. Once they are on the ground, I'd get advantage attacking them, as would my melee ally.
And of course I'd have a shield, which would bump my AC up to 20 - a very respectable AC.
But I am not sure it's worth the trade-off from Polearm Mastery and the flexibility of reach. I only have a 25 foot move, and so if I drop a foe with my first attack, once I have a second attack (or a bonus action attack) it's often difficult to actually make it to another foe with my remaining movement. Using a polearm often allowed me to reach two targets in a single turn when otherwise I wouldn't have been able to.
So my question is to those of you who have used a sword & board approach in 5e. How did it work out? What do you think the trade offs are between polearm use and a sword and board? What other feats did you choose for your sword and board? Any interesting combinations with Battle Master maneuvers? Other things I should be aware of?
Duelist does a bang-up job of making sword-and-board a solid option. If you go that route, I'd personally focus on maxing STR before taking feats. It's mostly a matter of personal preference. Movement might not be as much of an issue as you think - as long as you keep your marching order such that you're the one who likely gets mobbed.
Keep in mind that regardless of what you decide, you can always hang onto it for attacking foes that resist or ignore nonmagical attacks, or for times you're fighting in close quarters. And while selling magic items isn't straightforward in this edition, it can make a really solid gift, for assistance from NPCs or to convince a monster (e.g., a dragon) to not eat you.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
As for marching order...we tend to spread out based on initiative order and varying movements. With a 25 move and a dex mod of +0, I do not usually end up where I want to be relative to the rest of the party.
Sorry, I missed bits and pieces in the original post. Honestly, at this point I think it's personal preference - i.e., which do you think is cooler? It sounds to me like you want to stick with polearm, and I do love the idea of a dwarf that goes around kneecapping giants with a halberd. Like I said, it's a good idea to hang onto the longsword anyway - one of the Fighter's main drawbacks is no capacity to bypass weapon resistances, which a simple magic weapon solves entirely. Does no harm to sit in a scabbard as a failsafe.
Just to play devil's advocate, if you do go sword and board, you could look at the Mobile feat. In addition to the +10 bonus to footspeed, it lets you move past opponents and terrain to get yourself into the "monster clump".
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
The longsword is versatile too, so you could wield it with two hands and do 1d10 +1. As for the feat choices, a fighter gets a lot of feats so you could plan to acquire shield master and polearm master and be ready for different situations, bearing gear to switch around as needed. At any rate, you got a magic sword, congrats!
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The PC is 3rd level already. I cannot retroactively change things like Dueling and Great Weapon Fighting. He has Defense, and that's that unless I get to the high level where Fighters can choose another one.
As for Battle Master maneuvers, I have Precision, Riposte, and Trip. Only Commanders Strike, Feint, and Rally use a bonus action, and frankly I don't like any of those and don't imagine I would ever choose them.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
Are you sure you aren't able to make retroactive changes? Many DMs are quite understanding and flexible, especially at low levels. (It's even the Adventurer's League rule that almost *anything* can be changed up to level 4.)
If you change back and forth whenever you find new treasure, that's probably less well accepted, but as a DM if events in the campaign inspire my players to take their characters in directions they hadn't anticipated, I try to support that. 5E doesn't offer tons of "slots" for character customization features, so I'm generally flexible with "retraining" those.
Another option would be, after leaving this dungeon, to find a master black smith and ask them to reforge the sword into a Glaive ( DM permitting).
I play a sword and shield battlemaster fighter, and there are some really fun and powerful combinations that you can string together. For example:
1. Take Shield Master feat
2. Shove prone with shield (bonus action)
3. Drop shield (donning and doffing a shield consumes one Action, per PHB, so don't doff)
4. Menacing attack with Advantage and d10 damage die (longsword used with both hands), doing extra superiority die damage and imposing Frightened condition)
5. Using Extra Attack, Grapple, which the target is at a disadvantage to contest (Frightened condition causes disadvantage on ability checks)
6. End turn. Target is now prone, and so has disadvantage on attacks. Target is also frightened, and so has disadvantage on attacks and ability rolls. Target must use entire action to escape grapple. Target is also at a disadvantage to escape grapple. If target doesn't attempt to escape grapple, but attacks you and misses, then Riposte.
7. If target doesn't escape grapple, just mercilessly stab it to death with advantage. If target escapes grapple and stands up, use Trip Attack and then Grapple on next turn to maintain grapple, rather than consuming action by donning shield.
Another potent combination is using Disarming Attack on a grappled target, then moving the target away from the object that it has dropped, such as its weapon, Arcane Focus or shield.
Take Magic Initiate feat and Create Bonfire cantrip underneath grappled target.
If your DM is willing to retroactively change things, it seems like it would be easier to change the +1 sword to a +1 glaive than to retroactively rebuild your character.
I prefer the sword and board over two handed weapons. The extra defense a shield provides, plus shield master feat makes up for the little bit of damage you give up as a fighter
For those curious, I did go with sword and board (now level 5). DM did allow me to change to Dueling. I took Shield Master...sometimes useful, sometimes not. I've just found a frostbrand handaxe, which I may switch to instead of the magic sword.
Sivashor I do like your suggestions. I may need to take a second look at Menacing Attack.
As a DM, I'd argue that even though the order of -- movement, action, bonus action -- can generally vary, in this case the Feat fixes the order to Action THEN Bonus Action. Is there a rule somewhere that says otherwise?
EDIT: Really? There's no FEAT tooltips?
You're correct, the bonus action for Shield Master must come after the entire Attack action.
nevermind :)
Perpetually annoyed that Eldritch Knights can't use Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Smite, and Eldritch Sight.