What a joke. There isn't that much to test that this is still in phase one after almost a month.
the coding also takes time these websites use a ton of code that can take months to write up
And it takes time to test internally first. Just what they have so far would take a MASSIVE amount of code and data entry to make it look this good. And there are bugs that have been reported already that take time to fix, on top of the suggestions they decide to act on take time to code. And someone has to write copy for all of it.
Developing just takes a ton of time... tell me about it -_-
I'm always surprised by the volunteer apology crew that appears around anything like this.
I can't blame anyone for wanting to see something we don't already have plentiful access to - prettying up the SRD content isn't particularly compelling. The lack of a character builder and other such tools for 5th edition has been a gaping chasm in the offerings from WotC and they are well past due.
The sad part is that we've been made to wait years for what I'm sure we'll be paying a premium to access, content many of us already own (in multiple formats even!). Anyone who thinks this isn't the case is deluding themselves, because this has always been WotC's business model. I get so frustrated thinking about how WotC treats us, their loyal customers.
"The sad part is that we've been made to wait years for what I'm sure we'll be paying a premium to access"
Are you serious? Nobody is "making" you do anything! If you've been waiting years for something, learn to code and make it yourself. If you are going to complain about what you don't have, but are not willing to work for, then you don't deserve it.
One of the KEY characteristics of D&D is the ability of the players to CHANGE the game to their needs and desires, to build their own adventure and come out with something completely unique and wonderful. For those of you who have trouble in this, WotC sells some supplements and adventures to get you going. THAT is WotC's business model: to SELL books. They encourage you to do whatever you want with them, as they're really more of guidelines than rules.
And as for D&D beyond, if they want to be paid for the WORK they have done to put this website together, then they have a RIGHT to charge for access to their creation. Sure, all the information is out there already, but they did work to bring it to you this way. If you want it for free, build it yourself.
Remember, this is a beta test, not a freeloaders paradise. It's done so their WORK on the project isn't wasted.
Gonna invade your safe space with this one: the main concern of ANY business is profit! The people at D&D beyond saw a need, and are filling it. Sure, there's been a gap, but WotC PURPOSELY left it there, because they learned with 3.5 and 4 that the passionate and capable player network usually comes up with a better product, shares information, and makes the game better for everyone. The main problem that the player base has had is getting around copyright law and has been stuck making the free SRD content the only thing to go off of. If I have to pay money to get their product to work with all of the content, I will. Because, and I feel I need to stress this again, when people do a job they get paid.
Lots of great food being fed to a couple of trolls. Or pearls being cast to swine.
However you want to phrase it.
Some people will complain about anything. If you don't see value in D&D Beyond, why don't you leave the forum and go troll YouTube comments? If you do see value, please be more constructive than, "what a joke, blah blah blah, I'm tired of waiting a WHOLE MONTH," or indicating that anyone with a different opinion is an apologetic fanboy.
Nothing worse than rushing things out and then listening to people ***** about 'why did you release something that wasn't ready?'
Phase 1 requires people to fact check and make sure that what's there is correct and not broken in the mechanics in looking things up. Consider that the 'Testing' portion.
I definitely didn't mean to bait OR flame. I let my aggravation show, and employed fitting euphemisms which were not meant to indicate that anyone is a pig.
Pardon the frustration and the venting. I think the devs are doing a fantastic job, and I am certain they're not twiddling their thumbs or sitting in the corner with dunce hats on, as it seems some may be hinting at.
I get so frustrated thinking about how WotC treats us, their loyal customers.
D&D Beyond are not WotC.
Please repeat, several times.
I understand where you're coming from, but there is money changing hands between Twitch and WotC that is going to force Twitch to charge a minimum price for this service just to break even.
Also, I love your profile pic :D Quokka's are incredible.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but if you read what I wrote I think you'll find that I don't actually disagree with anyone.
Actually, you obviously do disagree with people. The folks you are calling out as "the volunteer apology crew" don't think they are apologizing for anything, and you are saying that they are - that's a clear disagreement.
You also seem to think WotC has done something that counts as treating you poorly, and there are more than a few folks that disagree with that - folks you have, rudely as I previously mentioned, assigned the implied ill behavior of "deluding themselves" to.
"The sad part is that we've been made to wait years for what I'm sure we'll be paying a premium to access"
Are you serious? Nobody is "making" you do anything! If you've been waiting years for something, learn to code and make it yourself. If you are going to complain about what you don't have, but are not willing to work for, then you don't deserve it.
One of the KEY characteristics of D&D is the ability of the players to CHANGE the game to their needs and desires, to build their own adventure and come out with something completely unique and wonderful. For those of you who have trouble in this, WotC sells some supplements and adventures to get you going. THAT is WotC's business model: to SELL books. They encourage you to do whatever you want with them, as they're really more of guidelines than rules.
And as for D&D beyond, if they want to be paid for the WORK they have done to put this website together, then they have a RIGHT to charge for access to their creation. Sure, all the information is out there already, but they did work to bring it to you this way. If you want it for free, build it yourself.
Remember, this is a beta test, not a freeloaders paradise. It's done so their WORK on the project isn't wasted.
Gonna invade your safe space with this one: the main concern of ANY business is profit! The people at D&D beyond saw a need, and are filling it. Sure, there's been a gap, but WotC PURPOSELY left it there, because they learned with 3.5 and 4 that the passionate and capable player network usually comes up with a better product, shares information, and makes the game better for everyone. The main problem that the player base has had is getting around copyright law and has been stuck making the free SRD content the only thing to go off of. If I have to pay money to get their product to work with all of the content, I will. Because, and I feel I need to stress this again, when people do a job they get paid.
I can completely appreciate that others are as enthusiastic about D&D as I, but are you sure you're not reading things into what I said just so you can say something you've been wanting to? I was going to say you're assuming a lot, but I guess we all are right now since there's so very little information available.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but if you read what I wrote I think you'll find that I don't actually disagree with anyone.
Actually, you obviously do disagree with people. The folks you are calling out as "the volunteer apology crew" don't think they are apologizing for anything, and you are saying that they are - that's a clear disagreement.
You also seem to think WotC has done something that counts as treating you poorly, and there are more than a few folks that disagree with that - folks you have, rudely as I previously mentioned, assigned the implied ill behavior of "deluding themselves" to.
I see now where I'm not sufficiently illustrating my point. My comment that WotC are treating us poorly is about the fact that we're being forced to pay retail price multiple times just to access it via a different method (eg Fantasy Grounds, Roll20). Of course, we don't know exactly how the pricing will work with D&D Beyond but based upon previous experience I think it's safe to assume it's going to be similar or the same.
If you're ok with that, good for you.
If you disagree with any other comments I made, that's fine. We don't all have to think the same thing or feel the same way.
If we want to get technical, you're being charged to purchase it from different retailers, whether in print or digital fashion. Nobody is stopping you from personally converting your text documents to digital for personal usage. You're paying these retailers for the convenience of doing it for you.
I see now where I'm not sufficiently illustrating my point. My comment that WotC are treating us poorly is about the fact that we're being forced to pay retail price multiple times just to access it via a different method (eg Fantasy Grounds, Roll20)
Do you also consider it poor treatment from Disney that they ask you to pay multiple times just to, as an example, see one of their films in a theater, own it on DVD/Blu-Ray, and stream it via Netflix? What about Blizzard because they don't ship you a free or discounted console copy of a game that you bought online for your PC?
Because if not, it seems like you've decided there is something inherently different about role-playing game material than other forms of entertainment where there is no expectation that having one form of something entitles you to other forms of the same something at discounted price.
If we want to get technical, you're being charged to purchase it from different retailers, whether in print or digital fashion. Nobody is stopping you from personally converting your text documents to digital for personal usage. You're paying these retailers for the convenience of doing it for you.
Lets call apples, apples.
You're right, I guess I'm just bothered because I can't wait for a sale and I want everything now :D
I see now where I'm not sufficiently illustrating my point. My comment that WotC are treating us poorly is about the fact that we're being forced to pay retail price multiple times just to access it via a different method (eg Fantasy Grounds, Roll20)
Do you also consider it poor treatment from Disney that they ask you to pay multiple times just to, as an example, see one of their films in a theater, own it on DVD/Blu-Ray, and stream it via Netflix? What about Blizzard because they don't ship you a free or discounted console copy of a game that you bought online for your PC?
Because if not, it seems like you've decided there is something inherently different about role-playing game material than other forms of entertainment where there is no expectation that having one form of something entitles you to other forms of the same something at discounted price.
Those are good points.
For the film analogy I think I would say it's not a good example because when I see a film in a cinema there isn't the expectation that I can leave the cinema with the film and have it available and on hand as required.
The game analogy is a good one though and I'm honestly unable to put into words exactly why I think it's different to this. You've made quite a good point.
Also, it's probably a good idea for me to point out that I never suggested I wanted content for free. That's unreasonable and unrealistic, and I wouldn't expect either Twitch or WotC to turn into a charity. I'm willing to pay, I merely feel that consideration should be given for people who have already purchased the content.
Now that I think about it, part of the problem arises from the fact that if I'd known that D&D Beyond would be a thing back in the early days of 5th Edition I might have made different purchasing decisions. I might have decided not to buy all of the content on Fantasy Grounds, or even not to buy the physical books since I'm just going to be paying for them all over again with D&D Beyond (I'm guessing here). The knowledge that D&D Beyond would exist would have informed my purchasing decisions and possibly convinced me to act differently.
This can be applied to the game analogy. When I buy a game that comes out on multiple platforms I usually know what platforms it will be on and using that information can make an informed purchasing decision. There are cases where something comes out later on a platform I didn't know about and in the rare cases where the price is the same as the original (it usually isn't) I feel exactly the same as this situation with the D&D books and other formatted content.
Now that I think about it, part of the problem arises from the fact that if I'd known that D&D Beyond would be a thing back in the early days of 5th Edition I might have made different purchasing decisions.
That may well be true, but you have to stay mindful of the fact that had you known - or even just believed or hoped strongly enough, since you don't actually need to be certain about something coming in order to say "I'll wait and see..." - you might still have made the choice to purchase what you did just so that you would have something, rather than nothing, in the intervening time.
I'm not stressing it, but I'm not relying on DnDBeyond for much, instead using it to augment my books. I already use it as a DM to look up monsters during encounters, and if its not here I still have my Monster Manual and Volos Guide. I plan on continue getting the physical books for our group, although I might get the core books here, and maybe others if they go on sale for a good price.
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I use summon instrument to summon my kettle drum, hold it overhead like Donkey Kong, and chuck it at the nearest kobold.
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I'm always surprised by the volunteer apology crew that appears around anything like this.
I can't blame anyone for wanting to see something we don't already have plentiful access to - prettying up the SRD content isn't particularly compelling. The lack of a character builder and other such tools for 5th edition has been a gaping chasm in the offerings from WotC and they are well past due.
The sad part is that we've been made to wait years for what I'm sure we'll be paying a premium to access, content many of us already own (in multiple formats even!). Anyone who thinks this isn't the case is deluding themselves, because this has always been WotC's business model. I get so frustrated thinking about how WotC treats us, their loyal customers.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
"The sad part is that we've been made to wait years for what I'm sure we'll be paying a premium to access"
it could be worse, you could be on fire.
Lots of great food being fed to a couple of trolls. Or pearls being cast to swine.
However you want to phrase it.
Some people will complain about anything. If you don't see value in D&D Beyond, why don't you leave the forum and go troll YouTube comments? If you do see value, please be more constructive than, "what a joke, blah blah blah, I'm tired of waiting a WHOLE MONTH," or indicating that anyone with a different opinion is an apologetic fanboy.
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InsidersOpinions are fine, but if name calling and baiting/flaming continues, I will lock this thread. Please, play nice. :)
A dwarf with a canoe on his back? What could go wrong?
Take your time.
Make sure it's good to go.
Nothing worse than rushing things out and then listening to people ***** about 'why did you release something that wasn't ready?'
Phase 1 requires people to fact check and make sure that what's there is correct and not broken in the mechanics in looking things up. Consider that the 'Testing' portion.
Because it is.
Keep up the good work! (Now hurry up. hehe)
I definitely didn't mean to bait OR flame. I let my aggravation show, and employed fitting euphemisms which were not meant to indicate that anyone is a pig.
Pardon the frustration and the venting. I think the devs are doing a fantastic job, and I am certain they're not twiddling their thumbs or sitting in the corner with dunce hats on, as it seems some may be hinting at.
I'll be nice from now on :)
If we want to get technical, you're being charged to purchase it from different retailers, whether in print or digital fashion. Nobody is stopping you from personally converting your text documents to digital for personal usage. You're paying these retailers for the convenience of doing it for you.
Lets call apples, apples.
I'm not stressing it, but I'm not relying on DnDBeyond for much, instead using it to augment my books. I already use it as a DM to look up monsters during encounters, and if its not here I still have my Monster Manual and Volos Guide. I plan on continue getting the physical books for our group, although I might get the core books here, and maybe others if they go on sale for a good price.
I use summon instrument to summon my kettle drum, hold it overhead like Donkey Kong, and chuck it at the nearest kobold.