This is just an example of how convenient and useful this tool is, both for players with he already very well made character creator, and for DMs. Already now the tool is worth it, imho, and it's only going to get better.
I absolutely do not disagree with that. I disagree with the fact that after paying i hold onto nothing, if not the access to this site, which is outside of my control to back up and unreachable when i need it. They have shown that they can and have removed a content from which i could have paid. I wish to have a backup for what i pay.
Furthermore, it has been already highlighted that Curse has very little control on the price of the content, but even so right before launch they managed to deal the discounted core books for the first week and the big pack which gives access to everything at 15% discount plus the same discount for all material being release after purchase of the bundle.
I ALSO do NOT disagree neither with the pricing nor with the price itself. BUT ONLY IF they made me keep something for what i pay an encrypted version of the database or a PDF or something of their choosing. If the gave me a coin i would not want it. If they gave me a thank you letter written by hand, neither that. I am buying access to a database containing those books. I do NOT wish to have it NOW AND HERE immediately, i am willing to pay now with a promise to have it in the future. Again, even if they broke such promises in the past i would be willing to pay them in order to believe such a promise. But they promise no such thing.
Also (I can't find he post but it's there) DDB will be continuously update with all errata and possible updates to the manual that is going to come out, same-day release of the manuals etc.
True.
I mean, this amount of work, and design put into this tool is impressive, and it deserve recognition.
I agree.
At least I believe all of the above, and I will repeat it to nausea: DDB is already am extremely powerful toolset, and it's only going to get better, the more support they receive, the more it's going to improve.
And i agree, but also i am voicing my opinion on why i am not CURRENTLY supporting them.
And to reply to your doubts on the mobile app: they are working on it, that implying it won't just be a bulky horrible thing just redirecting you here, there's a nice post from BadEye I believe that explain how they'd like to make it.
Call me St. Thomas, but i'll wait. This is different than releasing a PDF which they already have or a database backup which they already have. They have to build this app from scratch and it is going to require more effort than what they already have put in this. But i am thinking of supporting them for doing that. I do agree that this option is very tempting for me. If i get something like that added to what they ask me to pay at no extra cost, then i might as well buy subscriptions and books. Because that is exactly what i seek.
I would suggest to give a look at the dev post tracker, you're bound to find it.
I'll check onto it. If that is true i might as well buy the subscriptions and books.
Also, sorry if I sound a bit snarky, I am just sad people don't seem to realise the convenience and potentially total.of this toolset, which is already good compared to having to flip.througg a lot of pages and, frankly, not-so-useful indexes and appendices across 4 or 5 manuals to find what you need (in case you don't know, everything you buy gets grouped per.cstegory, so i.e. if you have the phb and the sword coast guide you get all your backgrounds in one place and your clases entry will feature the additional subclasses from both manuals, just saying).
I'm rather hoping that WotC's stand on PDF will change. Fear of Piracy is not a good reason. An archival format like that would be great to have around. Maybe later in the 5e cycle. Hopefully they don't wait until 6e.
I don't' think fear of piracy is their reasoning (although it could be, I haven't really heard) I think it is more about maintaining the value of the brand.
I am sorry, i don't understand your reasoning. By "making people unhappy" for reasons which you do not think are related to a problem related to how people illegally redistribute their IP you think their IP becomes worth more?! An IP is only worth what people are willing to pay. If people are willing to pay for a different version of an IP (be it audiobook, book, PDF or even an "abridged and without pictures" minibook), then by definition you are devaluing your IP of the net worth of the people which you are not satisfying.
There is no such thing as "value in scarcity" for non collectable items. You are applying a reasoning which works for Magic the gathering to a completely different brand with a completely different scope, marketing and end purpose.
And while maybe 99.99% of people will pay that $5 more, we don't know that they would make more money that way. Server hosting and transfers for that amount of data might be incredible, also they may not sell PDFs for every book sold
There are ways to test market elasticity, you know? Like seeing similar products of competing brands and how they fare elsewhere.
Paizo for example, by keeping nearly everything OGL and selling PDFs on day one along with their books, at a reduced (but not "unreasonably" so) price, seem to have basically won the market over and have sold much more than D&D 3.0 and 3.5 ever did. Even though they basically re-sold the very same things over again to the very same people.
Paizo never made an official tool to help DMs and players alike, in that they are deficient. True, there is PCGen, but that is player-driven and free. I think Paizo is missing a market there on their part.
I ALSO do NOT disagree neither with the pricing nor with the price itself. BUT ONLY IF they made me keep something for what i pay an encrypted version of the database or a PDF or something of their choosing. If the gave me a coin i would not want it. If they gave me a thank you letter written by hand, neither that. I am buying access to a database containing those books. I do NOT wish to have it NOW AND HERE immediately, i am willing to pay now with a promise to have it in the future. Again, even if they broke such promises in the past i would be willing to pay them in order to believe such a promise. But they promise no such thing.
First of all, thank you for your reply and for being clear.
Now, as much as I do not have a direct reply to the quoted part, and again, I perfectly understand your concerns and will never tell you to stop voicing them, I have a question for you: did you try to contact Curse directly on "what is going to happen to the material I purchased if/when DDB closes?" to get a direct answer from them? I mean, I guess they will have a plan for that, and they did not make it public because you normally do not openly talk about what will happen when a certain service will end, because it shifts attention away from what the service is and offers now. I am not sure they will, but maybe they could (under assurance you would not divulge such information most probably) at least give an indication of the end-of-life plan.
It's probably wishful thinking, but it's with a shot, I guess.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
You bought the book, not the content. You may own your books, but you don't own the IP within those books. You are not allowed to copy and resell any part of them. If you wish to use the IP in another format you have to get another license. WotC has determined that they believe their IP has a certain value and they wish to maintain that value online, hence having to pay $20-30 for the content online. So in the end you aren't buying anything twice, you are licensing it twice, in two different formats. If you go buy the new Stephen King novel from the store, does the publisher give you the e-reader edition for free? How about the audio book version? Those are the same IP in different formats, and if you want access to each, you pay. Then if you want to subscribe to something like Audible, you get one free book a month but if you want more, or want to access that book after the month, you have to pay for the content on top of a subscription. This is the future of digital toolsets because this is what will allow them to best protect their IP value while also making them the most profit, which will allow them to do more cool things and make more awesome products.
There is value and there is perceived value.
The value of an IP is only worth as much as the perceived value of the people who want to buy the IP.
By saying that if they wish to sell me the "right to make it easier to fill a sheet of paper" at the sound of 30$ per book with which i "wish to use in aid of the filling the sheet of paper"...
(....because let's remember that the whole point of this site is "just" an easier way not to lug 5 books around and not to put a pencil onto the character sheet and fill it by hand....)
...i wish (maybe not IMMEDIATELY, because i understand the financial security risk, but at the very least AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE) to hold onto the thing which they are selling me each time, that is: "some form of the database or the book which i am buying", then i am giving feedback to them onto "why aren't people like this person buying our product".
If they are content with the people already buying or have bought this product, then they might very well disregard my opinion and there is nothing more i can do. If they wish to broaden their buyer base then i am telling them why they are not selling it to me.
I understand what you are saying, but considering what has been said about how successful their launch was and how long they are already funded for, to me it sounds like the perceived value is there for enough people to make it very much worth while for WotC and Curse and, at least for now, they don't need to devalue the product to try to gain market share.
You really want to try to put that absolute onto this? That it is "just" a character sheet builder? Personally they aren't selling me something I need to hang on to, I have the books for that. Nor is it just about me not carrying around 5 (25+ for 3.5) books, or filling out a piece of paper. They are selling me time. The amount of time I have already saved in preparation (being able to see my players character sheets without having to track them down or call them, and for them to know that they are correct without asking me a dozen questions at game) and in running the game (Haven't picked up a single book at game since getting Beyond) have already paid for itself and I've only had it for a few weeks. Also I have had PDFs of every version of every game system I've ever run and not a single one of those PDFs stopped me from opening a book at the table. D&D Beyond is a service that goes well beyond what a PDF could do, and that was the point.
Being able to spend more time playing and less time flipping through pages is what I, personally, needed and Beyond delivers hand over fist. It also makes my players lives easier so they aren't needing books or spell cards out. They have their pads or phones and can easily keep track of everything they need without mistakes.
Less time flipping pages, more time prepping, and more face time with players. That is what D&D Beyond is selling. (Oh yeah, and not having to carry around 5-30 books, which I have, for years, up stairs... through the snow... )
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The most memorable stories always begin with failure.
I'm rather hoping that WotC's stand on PDF will change. Fear of Piracy is not a good reason. An archival format like that would be great to have around. Maybe later in the 5e cycle. Hopefully they don't wait until 6e.
I don't' think fear of piracy is their reasoning (although it could be, I haven't really heard) I think it is more about maintaining the value of the brand.
I am sorry, i don't understand your reasoning. By "making people unhappy" for reasons which you do not think are related to a problem related to how people illegally redistribute their IP you think their IP becomes worth more?! An IP is only worth what people are willing to pay. If people are willing to pay for a different version of an IP (be it audiobook, book, PDF or even an "abridged and without pictures" minibook), then by definition you are devaluing your IP of the net worth of the people which you are not satisfying.
There is no such thing as "value in scarcity" for non collectable items. You are applying a reasoning which works for Magic the gathering to a completely different brand with a completely different scope, marketing and end purpose.
I don't see what you are talking about the making people unhappy comment unless it was something I said before that wasn't quoted.
But I am not talking about scarcity at all. I am talking about the IP being available in several formats and being priced similarly. Offering it in one format at a reduced price only lowers the value of your brand and IP.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The most memorable stories always begin with failure.
And while maybe 99.99% of people will pay that $5 more, we don't know that they would make more money that way. Server hosting and transfers for that amount of data might be incredible, also they may not sell PDFs for every book sold
There are ways to test market elasticity, you know? Like seeing similar products of competing brands and how they fare elsewhere.
Paizo for example, by keeping nearly everything OGL and selling PDFs on day one along with their books, at a reduced (but not "unreasonably" so) price, seem to have basically won the market over and have sold much more than D&D 3.0 and 3.5 ever did. Even though they basically re-sold the very same things over again to the very same people.
Paizo never made an official tool to help DMs and players alike, in that they are deficient. True, there is PCGen, but that is player-driven and free. I think Paizo is missing a market there on their part.
Herein might lie the answer to why WotC does not really like PDF version of their material.
I do not think it's a matter of fear of piracy or the like, I tend more to believe that they want to maintain the focus on the physical version of their products because that is the market they are still leading and want to keep leading. As you highlighted, Paizo made the PDF version of their products their strong and most selling point, effectively becoming leaders in the market. WotC maybe wants to keep the official stuff in a physical format and keep the main focus on that because that's the market they are strongest. It might seem a silly way of making business avoiding an entire section of market this way, but it has his logic in focusing and what one does best. There must be a logic behind it other than "we fear piracy" (which happens anyway, scanners still exist) or "that would cheapen our products". ... or maybe they are just much more a cult than we think and they have a dogmatic no-PDF policy dictated by Vecna himself XD
Admittedly, though, the feeling and looks of a printed products can hardly be fully replaced by a digital version (that is mostly a matter of convenience) [most of the manuals I have on PDF for other systems I also managed to own in physical version over the years].
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
And while maybe 99.99% of people will pay that $5 more, we don't know that they would make more money that way. Server hosting and transfers for that amount of data might be incredible, also they may not sell PDFs for every book sold
There are ways to test market elasticity, you know? Like seeing similar products of competing brands and how they fare elsewhere.
Paizo for example, by keeping nearly everything OGL and selling PDFs on day one along with their books, at a reduced (but not "unreasonably" so) price, seem to have basically won the market over and have sold much more than D&D 3.0 and 3.5 ever did. Even though they basically re-sold the very same things over again to the very same people.
Paizo never made an official tool to help DMs and players alike, in that they are deficient. True, there is PCGen, but that is player-driven and free. I think Paizo is missing a market there on their part.
Paizo was smart to grab market share where they could. They found a niche market that had a brand that was failing due to saturation and grabbed the market by selling what people wanted.
I would like a source on Paizo selling more than 3.0/3.5 before I comment on it.
Paizo, unfortunately, is in the exact situation WotC was at the end of 3.5. Their market is saturated, they have no where to go. Sales are down, there is a competitor that is dominating the market, and if they create a new edition they basically alienate the very core of why people went to them in the first place. Their long term strategy failed because they copied the strategy from a failed edition. WotC is working hard to not do that again, one of the ways they do that is by maintaining their value and getting paid what the system they have created is worth. That means when you license their IP you are going to pay for it each time. It is the future of digital content for the industry.
Also it is easy to say that pathfinder doesn't do things like this, but the fact is they can't. The OGL basically means they can't enforce their own IP and anyone who wants to make an app with their rules is allowed to, so there is little reason for them to try to do it themselves when they won't make money off of it. They sell their PDFs cheap as well, because once again, they basically have to otherwise people will just go online and get it, legally, for free.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The most memorable stories always begin with failure.
But I am not talking about scarcity at all. I am talking about the IP being available in several formats and being priced similarly. Offering it in one format at a reduced price only lowers the value of your brand and IP.
I am sorry. I disagree so much with this particular statement that if i were to reply as i would like to and probably should i would really be banned for life from this forum, the service and everything related to internet.
You're lucky that i don't believe in censorship because this was the best grounds i have ever seen to put you in a "blocked user" list if this forum has one (i did not check, because i don't believe in such things, as i said)
Okay. so. in these figures, obviously Pathfinder sold more copies than D&D during almost all the 4th edition period, and since the market has been constantly growing as stated at the beginning in absolute numbers, even if i did not have exact figures,, it's quite easy to see how i can base my claim.
Also those are physical book sales only. It does not account PDF sales.... soooo....
Then there's the fact that i still see a large amount of pathfinder players that are not going anywhere (yet). But that does not count as it is anecdotal, i'm the first to admit it.
Their long term strategy failed because they copied the strategy from a failed edition. WotC is working hard to not do that again, one of the ways they do that is by maintaining their value and getting paid what the system they have created is worth. That means when you license their IP you are going to pay for it each time. It is the future of digital content for the industry.
My point was not that they have failed. They have (eventually) failed because, as you say, they failed to innovate. However, their strategy proved successful even while not innovating, because they did show how valuable is not locking people out of content and how useful it is to not create a "calculated scarcity in order not to devalue your IP". Again just saying such things makes me rage here. I think i broke the glass in my desk.
If people want to buy a product. And you ALREADY have it. That is: you don't have to produce it anew. Sell it.
Correct me if I am wrong (and I missed it amongst the walls of text whilst reading through the thread) but I believe that Curse are putting together iOS and Android apps that allow offline access to all purchased content. So long as you download the content, and still have possession of the device, you will have offline access even if WoTC/Curse cease access to the online tool.
If the mobile app is anywhere near as searchable as the website, I think it will beat PDFs hands down. But thats just me.
My main concern is voicing my concern. I am voicing it now, one month after release, because last time i kept quiet until the end and it ended badly. If i can steer future months all the better.
I've been casually keeping an eye on this, can't get too involved because you don't seem capable of a concise point, but this caught my eye. You've been a DDB member for SIX months, why did you wait until NOW, after release, to voice your concerns? Don't you think it would've been more productive back in beta?
I've been casually keeping an eye on this, can't get too involved because you don't seem capable of a concise point, but this caught my eye. You've been a DDB member for SIX months, why did you wait until NOW, after release, to voice your concerns? Don't you think it would've been more productive back in beta?
Quite simply: back then everything was fine.
Everything was about content.
Not pricing or what content one would get with which pricing.
Either that or i was able to miss it.
Once pricing came out about one month and an half ago... I was conflicted.
I really wanted to be part of this. It took me a while to understand that i did not.
However, now that the offline builder has been brought to my attention I am now quite sure i will buy the legendary package, even if i've missed the discount window.
But at this time of my life money, luckily, is not a very great issue for my hobbies.
I still have to check in depth, this offline builder and what it will be (right now it's just a voice), but yeah.
Correct me if I am wrong (and I missed it amongst the walls of text whilst reading through the thread) but I believe that Curse are putting together iOS and Android apps that allow offline access to all purchased content. So long as you download the content, and still have possession of the device, you will have offline access even if WoTC/Curse cease access to the online tool.
If the mobile app is anywhere near as searchable as the website, I think it will beat PDFs hands down. But thats just me.
Yes. LeK had already pointed that out to me. And if that is true and confirmed, then i'm in. I don't have any objection. This evening i'll search more in depth about this app that you told me about. Because i had completely missed.
If it's offline
If i don't have to buy the content a third time
and if i can use it both on pc and phone (ok, even if it's just for the phone, but i'd really like something to use on my pc as phones are fiddly and hard to use comfortably)
However, now that the offline builder has been brought to my attention I am now quite sure i will buy the legendary package, even if i've missed the discount window.
But at this time of my life money, luckily, is not a very great issue for my hobbies.
The discount is still there, the only thing you missed are the main 3 books discounted for the founding week, which amount in total at something around 20$ if I am not wrong. So you still get everything discounted by 15% buying the legendary bundle+15% discount for everything coming out after.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Correct me if I am wrong (and I missed it amongst the walls of text whilst reading through the thread) but I believe that Curse are putting together iOS and Android apps that allow offline access to all purchased content. So long as you download the content, and still have possession of the device, you will have offline access even if WoTC/Curse cease access to the online tool.
If the mobile app is anywhere near as searchable as the website, I think it will beat PDFs hands down. But thats just me.
Yes. LeK had already pointed that out to me. And if that is true and confirmed, then i'm in. I don't have any objection. This evening i'll search more in depth about this app that you told me about. Because i had completely missed.
If it's offline
If i don't have to buy the content a third time
and if i can use it both on pc and phone (ok, even if it's just for the phone, but i'd really like something to use on my pc as phones are fiddly and hard to use comfortably)
Then, by all account, i'm in.
The first two points have been confirmed.
The app will be compatible with IOS and Android (however they're supposed to be capitalized). Last I checked, it wasn't going to be compatible with the Windows app-operating-system-thing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Their long term strategy failed because they copied the strategy from a failed edition. WotC is working hard to not do that again, one of the ways they do that is by maintaining their value and getting paid what the system they have created is worth. That means when you license their IP you are going to pay for it each time. It is the future of digital content for the industry.
My point was not that they have failed. They have (eventually) failed because, as you say, they failed to innovate. However, their strategy proved successful even while not innovating, because they did show how valuable is not locking people out of content and how useful it is to not create a "calculated scarcity in order not to devalue your IP". Again just saying such things makes me rage here. I think i broke the glass in my desk.
If people want to buy a product. And you ALREADY have it. That is: you don't have to produce it anew. Sell it.
It's that simple.
If you are raging that bad about your hobby, maybe a new hobby? ;)
The point is they don't need to, nor do they want to. Selling a PDF may not hurt their bottom line directly, it may even help, but it might hurt their relationship with their online partners which then would hurt their bottom line in the long run and make the product less valuable in the process. It is a much bigger picture than just a PDF, they are thinking about the long term future of this edition and doing everything they can to make it a success, and it appears that enough people agree with them that the nae-sayers aren't swaying them. Maybe in the future they will sell the PDFs but I doubt it, D&D beyond is far superior and to make sure they wouldn't be hurting their relationships, they would probably be selling their PDFs for the same price as the content on these other sites. Are you willing to pay $30 for a PDF of each book?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The most memorable stories always begin with failure.
If you are raging that bad about your hobby, maybe a new hobby? ;)
While i agree i have communication skills more or less in the range of untrained 8 charisma, i strongly disagree. It is your argument that enrages me.
Selling a PDF may not hurt their bottom line directly, it may even help, but it might hurt their relationship with their online partners which then would hurt their bottom line in the long run and make the product less valuable in the process.
Please elaborate this point from your knowledge and giving us references.
Are you willing to pay $30 for a PDF of each book?
D&D Beyond is not superior to a PDF. It is completely different. like comparing the "Mona Lisa" and a multi-tool knife. I have bought PDFs for that price from Paizo, i've done it in the past for D&D. True, normally i wait for sales, but on average 30$ for a PDF is not a bad price for the people ruling the industry's standard. And if you really need to compare them, at least it is a lot more portable than this site at this moment. I could actually access it where i play for one thing.
I absolutely do not disagree with that. I disagree with the fact that after paying i hold onto nothing, if not the access to this site, which is outside of my control to back up and unreachable when i need it. They have shown that they can and have removed a content from which i could have paid. I wish to have a backup for what i pay.
I ALSO do NOT disagree neither with the pricing nor with the price itself. BUT ONLY IF they made me keep something for what i pay an encrypted version of the database or a PDF or something of their choosing. If the gave me a coin i would not want it. If they gave me a thank you letter written by hand, neither that. I am buying access to a database containing those books. I do NOT wish to have it NOW AND HERE immediately, i am willing to pay now with a promise to have it in the future. Again, even if they broke such promises in the past i would be willing to pay them in order to believe such a promise. But they promise no such thing.
True.
I agree.
And i agree, but also i am voicing my opinion on why i am not CURRENTLY supporting them.
Call me St. Thomas, but i'll wait. This is different than releasing a PDF which they already have or a database backup which they already have. They have to build this app from scratch and it is going to require more effort than what they already have put in this. But i am thinking of supporting them for doing that. I do agree that this option is very tempting for me. If i get something like that added to what they ask me to pay at no extra cost, then i might as well buy subscriptions and books. Because that is exactly what i seek.
I'll check onto it. If that is true i might as well buy the subscriptions and books.
No problem there i understand fans.
I am sorry, i don't understand your reasoning. By "making people unhappy" for reasons which you do not think are related to a problem related to how people illegally redistribute their IP you think their IP becomes worth more?! An IP is only worth what people are willing to pay. If people are willing to pay for a different version of an IP (be it audiobook, book, PDF or even an "abridged and without pictures" minibook), then by definition you are devaluing your IP of the net worth of the people which you are not satisfying.
There are ways to test market elasticity, you know? Like seeing similar products of competing brands and how they fare elsewhere.
Paizo for example, by keeping nearly everything OGL and selling PDFs on day one along with their books, at a reduced (but not "unreasonably" so) price, seem to have basically won the market over and have sold much more than D&D 3.0 and 3.5 ever did. Even though they basically re-sold the very same things over again to the very same people.
Paizo never made an official tool to help DMs and players alike, in that they are deficient. True, there is PCGen, but that is player-driven and free. I think Paizo is missing a market there on their part.
I am not sure they will, but maybe they could (under assurance you would not divulge such information most probably) at least give an indication of the end-of-life plan.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
You really want to try to put that absolute onto this? That it is "just" a character sheet builder? Personally they aren't selling me something I need to hang on to, I have the books for that. Nor is it just about me not carrying around 5 (25+ for 3.5) books, or filling out a piece of paper. They are selling me time. The amount of time I have already saved in preparation (being able to see my players character sheets without having to track them down or call them, and for them to know that they are correct without asking me a dozen questions at game) and in running the game (Haven't picked up a single book at game since getting Beyond) have already paid for itself and I've only had it for a few weeks. Also I have had PDFs of every version of every game system I've ever run and not a single one of those PDFs stopped me from opening a book at the table. D&D Beyond is a service that goes well beyond what a PDF could do, and that was the point.
Being able to spend more time playing and less time flipping through pages is what I, personally, needed and Beyond delivers hand over fist. It also makes my players lives easier so they aren't needing books or spell cards out. They have their pads or phones and can easily keep track of everything they need without mistakes.
Less time flipping pages, more time prepping, and more face time with players. That is what D&D Beyond is selling. (Oh yeah, and not having to carry around 5-30 books, which I have, for years, up stairs... through the snow... )
The most memorable stories always begin with failure.
The most memorable stories always begin with failure.
As you highlighted, Paizo made the PDF version of their products their strong and most selling point, effectively becoming leaders in the market.
WotC maybe wants to keep the official stuff in a physical format and keep the main focus on that because that's the market they are strongest. It might seem a silly way of making business avoiding an entire section of market this way, but it has his logic in focusing and what one does best. There must be a logic behind it other than "we fear piracy" (which happens anyway, scanners still exist) or "that would cheapen our products".
... or maybe they are just much more a cult than we think and they have a dogmatic no-PDF policy dictated by Vecna himself XD
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
I would like a source on Paizo selling more than 3.0/3.5 before I comment on it.
Paizo, unfortunately, is in the exact situation WotC was at the end of 3.5. Their market is saturated, they have no where to go. Sales are down, there is a competitor that is dominating the market, and if they create a new edition they basically alienate the very core of why people went to them in the first place. Their long term strategy failed because they copied the strategy from a failed edition. WotC is working hard to not do that again, one of the ways they do that is by maintaining their value and getting paid what the system they have created is worth. That means when you license their IP you are going to pay for it each time. It is the future of digital content for the industry.
Also it is easy to say that pathfinder doesn't do things like this, but the fact is they can't. The OGL basically means they can't enforce their own IP and anyone who wants to make an app with their rules is allowed to, so there is little reason for them to try to do it themselves when they won't make money off of it. They sell their PDFs cheap as well, because once again, they basically have to otherwise people will just go online and get it, legally, for free.
The most memorable stories always begin with failure.
I am sorry. I disagree so much with this particular statement that if i were to reply as i would like to and probably should i would really be banned for life from this forum, the service and everything related to internet.
You're lucky that i don't believe in censorship because this was the best grounds i have ever seen to put you in a "blocked user" list if this forum has one (i did not check, because i don't believe in such things, as i said)
http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?1984-Top-5-RPGs-Compiled-Charts-2008-Present#.WURRkWjyuUk
Okay. so. in these figures, obviously Pathfinder sold more copies than D&D during almost all the 4th edition period, and since the market has been constantly growing as stated at the beginning in absolute numbers, even if i did not have exact figures,, it's quite easy to see how i can base my claim.
Also those are physical book sales only. It does not account PDF sales.... soooo....
Then there's the fact that i still see a large amount of pathfinder players that are not going anywhere (yet). But that does not count as it is anecdotal, i'm the first to admit it.
My point was not that they have failed. They have (eventually) failed because, as you say, they failed to innovate. However, their strategy proved successful even while not innovating, because they did show how valuable is not locking people out of content and how useful it is to not create a "calculated scarcity in order not to devalue your IP". Again just saying such things makes me rage here. I think i broke the glass in my desk.
If people want to buy a product. And you ALREADY have it. That is: you don't have to produce it anew. Sell it.
It's that simple.
Correct me if I am wrong (and I missed it amongst the walls of text whilst reading through the thread) but I believe that Curse are putting together iOS and Android apps that allow offline access to all purchased content. So long as you download the content, and still have possession of the device, you will have offline access even if WoTC/Curse cease access to the online tool.
If the mobile app is anywhere near as searchable as the website, I think it will beat PDFs hands down. But thats just me.
How to add Tooltips
I've been casually keeping an eye on this, can't get too involved because you don't seem capable of a concise point, but this caught my eye. You've been a DDB member for SIX months, why did you wait until NOW, after release, to voice your concerns? Don't you think it would've been more productive back in beta?
DM for the Adventures in Erylia Podcast
Where five friends sit around the table and record themselves playing Dungeons and Dragons
Then, by all account, i'm in.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
The most memorable stories always begin with failure.
While i agree i have communication skills more or less in the range of untrained 8 charisma, i strongly disagree. It is your argument that enrages me.
Please elaborate this point from your knowledge and giving us references.
D&D Beyond is not superior to a PDF. It is completely different. like comparing the "Mona Lisa" and a multi-tool knife. I have bought PDFs for that price from Paizo, i've done it in the past for D&D. True, normally i wait for sales, but on average 30$ for a PDF is not a bad price for the people ruling the industry's standard. And if you really need to compare them, at least it is a lot more portable than this site at this moment. I could actually access it where i play for one thing.
So, as a clarification for myself, the only actual complaint of the OP is the fact we are not getting the product without online access?