That isn't even slightly the point of what I wrote and you bloody well know it, Kotath. Please do not get cute with me.
I will say it again without the spoilers this time, for emphasis: pain, stress, and fear is always real. You cannot "falsely" feel pain, stress, and fear. Someone feeling those things is experiencing them just as truly as anyone else experiencing them. People who tell other people that their experience 'isn't real', for any reason, can kindly stop doing that this instant.
I may not see an issue, in my own personal environment and of my own personal experience, in using the term 'madness' in D&D. Other people have said they have felt pain, stress, or fear when that term was used, due to difference between my experience sphere and theirs. Their pain, their stress, their fear? It's real. It deserves resolution. That resolution may be as simple as changing the term out for something less charged. it may require a table-by-table homebrew restructuring of the entire "Madness" system. It may even just be enough that the person's pain, stress, and/or fear is acknowledged and respected, and people move into a game including this system with an open and accepting mind.
Some folks on this forum continue to deny that these experiences are real, however. That, I will not tolerate. I won't tolerate it from Vince, I won't tolerate it from you. I wouldn't tolerate it from Third, Sposta, Pang, Heironymus, or Urth - and I like those guys. I won't tolerate it from me - if someone calls me out as denying their experience, they will earn an apology from me and I will endeavor to change the methods and/or substance of my arguments as required.
Now if it were described purely as a magical condition and the effects were not so clearly taken from both real world mental conditions and stereotypical mentally ill people from popular fiction, I could agree with you. But when the very rules start with a mundane cause, I don't think this argument flies at all.
None of the sources listed in the paragraph about 'going mad' are mundane. The rules in the DMG are mostly intended to interact with certain spells and domain effects, as well as the Sanity optional attribute and the Fear and Horror rules, both of which generally trigger checks on contacts with 'things that should not be', not ordinary stress (not that these rules are particularly good or interesting, it's just trying to make it slightly easier to play Call of Cthulhu in D&D).
Now if it were described purely as a magical condition and the effects were not so clearly taken from both real world mental conditions and stereotypical mentally ill people from popular fiction, I could agree with you. But when the very rules start with a mundane cause, I don't think this argument flies at all.
None of the sources listed in the paragraph about 'going mad' are mundane. The rules in the DMG are mostly intended to interact with certain spells and domain effects, as well as the Sanity optional attribute and the Fear and Horror rules, both of which generally trigger checks on contacts with 'things that should not be', not ordinary stress (not that these rules are particularly good or interesting, it's just trying to make it slightly easier to play Call of Cthulhu in D&D).
Eh?
I quoted the very first sentence of the madness rules: "sometimes the stress of being an adventurer can be too much to bear". The stress of being an adventurer. Not a magical spell or item, not "things that should not be", just the stress of being an adventurer.
Even if additional, magical causes are listed later, the very first cause listed in the rules is exactly the sort of thing which happens in the real world.
This is a reminder to be civil and courteous to each other, as well as respecting each others experiences and not invalidating them.
Some people have suffered mental illness and are affected by the depictions of madness in D&D
Some people have suffered mental illness and are not affected by these depictions
Some people haven't suffered mental illness problems and aren't affected by the depictions
Some people haven't suffered mental illness problems and still are affected by the depictions
All of these are valid personal experiences
However, no one, I must stress this, no one gets to speak for, or invalidate, the experiences of others. That is not in keeping with the respectful, considerate and courteous conduct expected of all users of this site.
I quoted the very first sentence of the madness rules: "sometimes the stress of being an adventurer can be too much to bear". The stress of being an adventurer. Not a magical spell or item, not "things that should not be", just the stress of being an adventure.
Yes, but all the actual examples they give of what this means are supernatural.
I quoted the very first sentence of the madness rules: "sometimes the stress of being an adventurer can be too much to bear". The stress of being an adventurer. Not a magical spell or item, not "things that should not be", just the stress of being an adventure.
Yes, but all the actual examples they give of what this means are supernatural.
So because supernatural causes are listed later, we are to ignore the very first sentence, which correlates very closely with one way people develop real world mental health issues?
I get that there are supernatural causes within the game. But when the section on madness opens with a classic mundane cause, I don't think you can use that to dismiss any possible link to the real world.
To be honest, even if I accepted that there were no mundane causes in the rules, the effects described still match many effects of real world series mental conditions. If the character of someone who had suffered horrific burns in real life was hit by a fireball and the DM described the effects, it's not necessarily going to matter to them that the fire was caused by magic...
So fair question, with how often people ask for tweaks to rules or wishing D&D as a game provided more options or depth and the amount of people that come out and say well just play a different game system if thats what you want than how does that not apply to all the bemoaning over a condition name or label? If it's truly a real issue and not just a backpat "look what I pointed out give me twitter points" issue than theres bounds more systems out there than needing to change everything about D&D
Also, we have massive global cyber attacks hitting buisness' daily, the oil pipeline in the NE is shut down due to ransomware attacks and we're seeing its effects, covids sent inflation into a spiral, have you looked at the price of lumber lately? its up 300% at least. we have people dying in the new Israel/Palestine missile and rocket attacks. By 2050 there will be more plastic by mass than fish in the worlds oceans. People in India are dying to Covid at an insane pace. Asian peoples in the US are getting beat daily due to stigma but THIS, this is the issue?
Seriously.. take a step back and evaluate your life if the biggest hurdle your facing today is that D&D uses the term madness in it, than maybe you can realize how trivial the problem is and move past it and put your focus on something far more deserving
So fair question, with how often people ask for tweaks to rules or wishing D&D as a game provided more options or depth and the amount of people that come out and say well just play a different game system if thats what you want than how does that not apply to all the bemoaning over a condition name or label? If it's truly a real issue and not just a backpat "look what I pointed out give me twitter points" issue than theres bounds more systems out there than needing to change everything about D&D
Also, we have massive global cyber attacks hitting buisness' daily, the oil pipeline in the NE is shut down due to ransomware attacks and we're seeing its effects, covids sent inflation into a spiral, have you looked at the price of lumber lately? its up 300% at least. we have people dying in the new Israel/Palestine missile and rocket attacks. People in India are dying to Covid at an insane pace. Asian peoples in the US are getting beat daily due to stigma but THIS, this is the issue?
Seriously.. take a step back and evaluate your life if the biggest hurdle your facing today is that D&D uses the term madness in it, than maybe you can realize how trivial the problem is and move past it and put your focus on something far more deserving
While I very much appreciate that there are bigger things going on in the world than D&D, this forum is about D&D. If someone has a problem with the rules, the wording, etc for whatever reason, is this not the perfect place to discuss it?
If you are going to criticise people for discussing trivial matters
1) shouldn't DDB just shut down this forum? I mean, there are much more important things to discuss than D&D, so we shouldn't be discussing it, right?
2) aren't you breaking your own maxim? You have joined a thread about a possible issue to complain that people shouldn't be complaining about such a trivial issue....
Nobody here can do anything about all of that, Winterdale. It's not (likely) the job of anyone in this thread to handle global catastrophes. And if it is that person's job, by chance, then they come here in their scant off time to enjoy not doing that job for a few hours.
We can't fix Covid, or cybersecurity, or Big Oil, or the Israeli/Palestine conflict, or any of that other stuff. We can raise awareness of an issue that's potentially hurting folks right here on DDB. Big problems existing doesn't invalidate little problems. The original poster was not 'bemoaning' the question being raised, he was simply raising the question. Other people took it poorly for generally not-good reasons and now we're in the middle of an Internet spitting match. Because nobody can have nice things.
Than I will say that I get offended by people that take offense at trivial things when the world at large is going to hell in a handbasket. Because people can enact change in everything they do. It wasn't that long ago that excess plastic packaging was everywhere in the US but people rallied up to reduce plastic waste. Police actions are under higher scrutiny because of peoples reactions to them vs 4 years ago.
Again if the question is "I think people could find a term offensive" or "race based ASIs are offensive" Than people need to look at something beyond a pen and paper ttrpg and put that energy into something far more productive.
Big issues don't invalidate little issues, but when the little issue is so meaningless it makes it look trite and petty especially in the age of tumblr and twitter where the main reason these issues arise is for a pat on the back and internet points. We're passed the days of slurs and iconography in games and into the age of I need to find something to be upset about, be upset about something that has a real impact and get out there and do something about it.
The OP wasn't bemoaning but raising a question of such little impact, worth and importance which is the hallmark of the internet these days. It's a game with a catchall term based on lovecraftain horror. Again if this is the biggest worry today for the OP...
So fair question, with how often people ask for tweaks to rules or wishing D&D as a game provided more options or depth and the amount of people that come out and say well just play a different game system if thats what you want than how does that not apply to all the bemoaning over a condition name or label? If it's truly a real issue and not just a backpat "look what I pointed out give me twitter points" issue than theres bounds more systems out there than needing to change everything about D&D
Also, we have massive global cyber attacks hitting buisness' daily, the oil pipeline in the NE is shut down due to ransomware attacks and we're seeing its effects, covids sent inflation into a spiral, have you looked at the price of lumber lately? its up 300% at least. we have people dying in the new Israel/Palestine missile and rocket attacks. People in India are dying to Covid at an insane pace. Asian peoples in the US are getting beat daily due to stigma but THIS, this is the issue?
Seriously.. take a step back and evaluate your life if the biggest hurdle your facing today is that D&D uses the term madness in it, than maybe you can realize how trivial the problem is and move past it and put your focus on something far more deserving
While I very much appreciate that there are bigger things going on in the world than D&D, this forum is about D&D. If someone has a problem with the rules, the wording, etc for whatever reason, is this not the perfect place to discuss it?
If you are going to criticise people for discussing trivial matters
1) shouldn't DDB just shut down this forum? I mean, there are much more important things to discuss than D&D, so we shouldn't be discussing it, right?
2) aren't you breaking your own maxim? You have joined a thread about a possible issue to complain that people shouldn't be complaining about such a trivial issue....
1 - Very different to discuss a rule or make a suggestion or discuss a house rule about a game than to seek out being offended about a game for some reason or another. For instance its one thing to go see a movie and critcise it for its lack of whatever. It's another to look through plot synopsis online so you can write on twitter how your upset about it.
2- In a way yeah, Ill just point out its a trivial complaint and move on, I'm not actively reading every TTRPGs forums looking for stuff to be upset about or reading every post on D&D beyond to find a cause to be upset. Or thinking about the implications of each ruling or header to go "i think someone might be upset that wizards only get a d6 hit die becauae that suggests that person is frail and frail people will find that offensive"
edit: and while it might of been just a shower thought from OP that's not how it often comes across lately.
So because supernatural causes are listed later, we are to ignore the very first sentence, which correlates very closely with one way people develop real world mental health issues?
Mostly? I mean, the mechanics are utterly ridiculous if they're supposed to represent traumatic stress/PTSD.
I quoted the very first sentence of the madness rules: "sometimes the stress of being an adventurer can be too much to bear". The stress of being an adventurer. Not a magical spell or item, not "things that should not be", just the stress of being an adventure.
Yes, but all the actual examples they give of what this means are supernatural.
So because supernatural causes are listed later, we are to ignore the very first sentence, which correlates very closely with one way people develop real world mental health issues?
I get that there are supernatural causes within the game. But when the section on madness opens with a classic mundane cause, I don't think you can use that to dismiss any possible link to the real world.
To be honest, even if I accepted that there were no mundane causes in the rules, the effects described still match many effects of real world series mental conditions. If the character of someone who had suffered horrific burns in real life was hit by a fireball and the DM described the effects, it's not necessarily going to matter to them that the fire was caused by magic...
If this was ANYTHING else, would the flavour text be giving the same weight? Or would it be dismissed as flavour text and carrying no weight since the mechanics ignore it?
Ok, even if that is pure flavour text, AND the only possible ways to get "madness" in 5e are supernatural, it still doesn't change the fact that many of the effects are almost identical to the effects of real world serious mental conditions. This, coupled with the fact that our is literally called madness and madness is a word which has been used throughout the ages to point to mental health issues, or would be completely reasonable for someone to associate it with mental health issues.
Please remember that I'm not saying that madness in 5e is offensive, only that dismissing issues that people have with a link between the game effect and a real world issues is a lazy and barely valid argument. "It's just a game" just doesn't cut it.
So fair question, with how often people ask for tweaks to rules or wishing D&D as a game provided more options or depth and the amount of people that come out and say well just play a different game system if thats what you want than how does that not apply to all the bemoaning over a condition name or label? If it's truly a real issue and not just a backpat "look what I pointed out give me twitter points" issue than theres bounds more systems out there than needing to change everything about D&D
Also, we have massive global cyber attacks hitting buisness' daily, the oil pipeline in the NE is shut down due to ransomware attacks and we're seeing its effects, covids sent inflation into a spiral, have you looked at the price of lumber lately? its up 300% at least. we have people dying in the new Israel/Palestine missile and rocket attacks. People in India are dying to Covid at an insane pace. Asian peoples in the US are getting beat daily due to stigma but THIS, this is the issue?
Seriously.. take a step back and evaluate your life if the biggest hurdle your facing today is that D&D uses the term madness in it, than maybe you can realize how trivial the problem is and move past it and put your focus on something far more deserving
While I very much appreciate that there are bigger things going on in the world than D&D, this forum is about D&D. If someone has a problem with the rules, the wording, etc for whatever reason, is this not the perfect place to discuss it?
If you are going to criticise people for discussing trivial matters
1) shouldn't DDB just shut down this forum? I mean, there are much more important things to discuss than D&D, so we shouldn't be discussing it, right?
2) aren't you breaking your own maxim? You have joined a thread about a possible issue to complain that people shouldn't be complaining about such a trivial issue....
1 - Very different to discuss a rule or make a suggestion or discuss a house rule about a game than to seek out being offended about a game for some reason or another. For instance its one thing to go see a movie and critcise it for its lack of whatever. It's another to look through plot synopsis online so you can write on twitter how your upset about it.
2- In a way yeah, Ill just point out its a trivial complaint and move on, I'm not actively reading every TTRPGs forums looking for stuff to be upset about or reading every post on D&D beyond to find a cause to be upset. Or thinking about the implications of each ruling or header to go "i think someone might be upset that wizards only get a d6 hit die becauae that suggests that person is frail and frail people will find that offensive"
edit: and while it might of been just a shower thought from OP that's not how it often comes across lately.
1) If it was just people who "read the synopsis"and took offense on other people's behalf, I could sympathise with your position. But it isn't. People have come on here for several different reasons who have played D&D for a long time, have intimate knowledge of the rules, lore, settings and history, and have explained their own experiences and how they have been made to feel uncomfortable by it. Real people, real problems. Yet they get dismissed with "it's just a game". Yeah, maybe D&D is, but their experiences are not! Try showing the tiniest bit of compassion for your fellow humans!
2) Nobody here is don't that, it's all in your head. I'm not even saying I think madness is offensive (and very few on here have said they think it is), I'm only pointing out a very faulty piece of "reasoning" being used in every one of these discussions.
The OP wasn't bemoaning but raising a question of such little impact, worth and importance which is the hallmark of the internet these days. It's a game with a catchall term based on lovecraftain horror. Again if this is the biggest worry today for the OP...
If he is asking a question of such little importance, then surely you are complaining about something of no greater importance. If people asking whether something in a ttrpg might be insensitive is the biggest worry today for you....
But for there to be relevant link, doesn't it have to be something other than 'Well that condition exists in real life?' Otherwise we have to toss out all elemental damage, all weapon damage... falling damage.
Animals should not be portrayed in game. Humans should not be portrayed in game. Where are you drawing the line here?
The line you are drawing would seem to say every game is linked to real world issues and no game is 'merely a game.'
How relevant a link there is for someone is not for you to decide. It's not for me to decide, either.
What I am saying is that dismissing someone else's life experiences and telling them they should not be offended or find something upsetting because "it's just a game" is callous, insensitive, and generally a horrible way to treat another human being.
Ok, even if that is pure flavour text, AND the only possible ways to get "madness" in 5e are supernatural, it still doesn't change the fact that many of the effects are almost identical to the effects of real world serious mental conditions. This, coupled with the fact that our is literally called madness and madness is a word which has been used throughout the ages to point to mental health issues, or would be completely reasonable for someone to associate it with mental health issues.
That's true but I'm not sure why it's relevant? There is nothing inherently insensitive about having people in a game who have mental health issues. It's maybe worth adding a warning, because it's tricky for the DM to handle well, but I would say to the degree D&D has a sensitivity problem around madness it's with their use as NPCs, not with the rules in the DMG (for example, I'm not enthusiastic about a lot of the NPCs in CoS, because there's a few specifically mad people being used to add color, and a bunch of people not specifically described as mad who still have pretty crippling mental issues).
Ok, even if that is pure flavour text, AND the only possible ways to get "madness" in 5e are supernatural, it still doesn't change the fact that many of the effects are almost identical to the effects of real world serious mental conditions. This, coupled with the fact that our is literally called madness and madness is a word which has been used throughout the ages to point to mental health issues, or would be completely reasonable for someone to associate it with mental health issues.
That's true but I'm not sure why it's relevant? There is nothing inherently insensitive about having people in a game who have mental health issues. It's maybe worth adding a warning, because it's tricky for the DM to handle well, but I would say to the degree D&D has a sensitivity problem around madness it's with their use as NPCs, not with the rules in the DMG (for example, I'm not enthusiastic about a lot of the NPCs in CoS, because there's a few specifically mad people being used to add color, and a bunch of people not specifically described as mad who still have pretty crippling mental issues).
As I've said multiple times, I'm not saying that madness in 5e is offensive or even insensitive.
What I am saying is that, by responding to this question and others like it with "it's just a game", you dismiss the experiences of those who are affected by it. You tell them that their experiences don't matter, that they should not find anything in the game upsetting, because "it's just a game". You tell them that you don't care how they feel, what they have been through.
What I am saying is that, by responding to this question and others like it with "it's just a game", you dismiss the experiences of those who are affected by it. You tell them that their experiences don't matter, that they should not find anything in the game upsetting, because "it's just a game". You tell them that you don't care how they feel, what they have been through.
That isn't even slightly the point of what I wrote and you bloody well know it, Kotath. Please do not get cute with me.
I will say it again without the spoilers this time, for emphasis: pain, stress, and fear is always real. You cannot "falsely" feel pain, stress, and fear. Someone feeling those things is experiencing them just as truly as anyone else experiencing them. People who tell other people that their experience 'isn't real', for any reason, can kindly stop doing that this instant.
I may not see an issue, in my own personal environment and of my own personal experience, in using the term 'madness' in D&D. Other people have said they have felt pain, stress, or fear when that term was used, due to difference between my experience sphere and theirs. Their pain, their stress, their fear? It's real. It deserves resolution. That resolution may be as simple as changing the term out for something less charged. it may require a table-by-table homebrew restructuring of the entire "Madness" system. It may even just be enough that the person's pain, stress, and/or fear is acknowledged and respected, and people move into a game including this system with an open and accepting mind.
Some folks on this forum continue to deny that these experiences are real, however. That, I will not tolerate. I won't tolerate it from Vince, I won't tolerate it from you. I wouldn't tolerate it from Third, Sposta, Pang, Heironymus, or Urth - and I like those guys. I won't tolerate it from me - if someone calls me out as denying their experience, they will earn an apology from me and I will endeavor to change the methods and/or substance of my arguments as required.
Please do not contact or message me.
None of the sources listed in the paragraph about 'going mad' are mundane. The rules in the DMG are mostly intended to interact with certain spells and domain effects, as well as the Sanity optional attribute and the Fear and Horror rules, both of which generally trigger checks on contacts with 'things that should not be', not ordinary stress (not that these rules are particularly good or interesting, it's just trying to make it slightly easier to play Call of Cthulhu in D&D).
Eh?
I quoted the very first sentence of the madness rules: "sometimes the stress of being an adventurer can be too much to bear". The stress of being an adventurer. Not a magical spell or item, not "things that should not be", just the stress of being an adventurer.
Even if additional, magical causes are listed later, the very first cause listed in the rules is exactly the sort of thing which happens in the real world.
This is a reminder to be civil and courteous to each other, as well as respecting each others experiences and not invalidating them.
Some people have suffered mental illness and are affected by the depictions of madness in D&D
Some people have suffered mental illness and are not affected by these depictions
Some people haven't suffered mental illness problems and aren't affected by the depictions
Some people haven't suffered mental illness problems and still are affected by the depictions
All of these are valid personal experiences
However, no one, I must stress this, no one gets to speak for, or invalidate, the experiences of others. That is not in keeping with the respectful, considerate and courteous conduct expected of all users of this site.
Please, be excellent to each other
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Yes, but all the actual examples they give of what this means are supernatural.
So because supernatural causes are listed later, we are to ignore the very first sentence, which correlates very closely with one way people develop real world mental health issues?
I get that there are supernatural causes within the game. But when the section on madness opens with a classic mundane cause, I don't think you can use that to dismiss any possible link to the real world.
To be honest, even if I accepted that there were no mundane causes in the rules, the effects described still match many effects of real world series mental conditions. If the character of someone who had suffered horrific burns in real life was hit by a fireball and the DM described the effects, it's not necessarily going to matter to them that the fire was caused by magic...
So fair question, with how often people ask for tweaks to rules or wishing D&D as a game provided more options or depth and the amount of people that come out and say well just play a different game system if thats what you want than how does that not apply to all the bemoaning over a condition name or label? If it's truly a real issue and not just a backpat "look what I pointed out give me twitter points" issue than theres bounds more systems out there than needing to change everything about D&D
Also, we have massive global cyber attacks hitting buisness' daily, the oil pipeline in the NE is shut down due to ransomware attacks and we're seeing its effects, covids sent inflation into a spiral, have you looked at the price of lumber lately? its up 300% at least. we have people dying in the new Israel/Palestine missile and rocket attacks. By 2050 there will be more plastic by mass than fish in the worlds oceans. People in India are dying to Covid at an insane pace. Asian peoples in the US are getting beat daily due to stigma but THIS, this is the issue?
Seriously.. take a step back and evaluate your life if the biggest hurdle your facing today is that D&D uses the term madness in it, than maybe you can realize how trivial the problem is and move past it and put your focus on something far more deserving
While I very much appreciate that there are bigger things going on in the world than D&D, this forum is about D&D. If someone has a problem with the rules, the wording, etc for whatever reason, is this not the perfect place to discuss it?
If you are going to criticise people for discussing trivial matters
1) shouldn't DDB just shut down this forum? I mean, there are much more important things to discuss than D&D, so we shouldn't be discussing it, right?
2) aren't you breaking your own maxim? You have joined a thread about a possible issue to complain that people shouldn't be complaining about such a trivial issue....
Nobody here can do anything about all of that, Winterdale. It's not (likely) the job of anyone in this thread to handle global catastrophes. And if it is that person's job, by chance, then they come here in their scant off time to enjoy not doing that job for a few hours.
We can't fix Covid, or cybersecurity, or Big Oil, or the Israeli/Palestine conflict, or any of that other stuff. We can raise awareness of an issue that's potentially hurting folks right here on DDB. Big problems existing doesn't invalidate little problems. The original poster was not 'bemoaning' the question being raised, he was simply raising the question. Other people took it poorly for generally not-good reasons and now we're in the middle of an Internet spitting match. Because nobody can have nice things.
Please do not contact or message me.
Than I will say that I get offended by people that take offense at trivial things when the world at large is going to hell in a handbasket. Because people can enact change in everything they do. It wasn't that long ago that excess plastic packaging was everywhere in the US but people rallied up to reduce plastic waste. Police actions are under higher scrutiny because of peoples reactions to them vs 4 years ago.
Again if the question is "I think people could find a term offensive" or "race based ASIs are offensive" Than people need to look at something beyond a pen and paper ttrpg and put that energy into something far more productive.
Big issues don't invalidate little issues, but when the little issue is so meaningless it makes it look trite and petty especially in the age of tumblr and twitter where the main reason these issues arise is for a pat on the back and internet points. We're passed the days of slurs and iconography in games and into the age of I need to find something to be upset about, be upset about something that has a real impact and get out there and do something about it.
The OP wasn't bemoaning but raising a question of such little impact, worth and importance which is the hallmark of the internet these days. It's a game with a catchall term based on lovecraftain horror. Again if this is the biggest worry today for the OP...
1 - Very different to discuss a rule or make a suggestion or discuss a house rule about a game than to seek out being offended about a game for some reason or another. For instance its one thing to go see a movie and critcise it for its lack of whatever. It's another to look through plot synopsis online so you can write on twitter how your upset about it.
2- In a way yeah, Ill just point out its a trivial complaint and move on, I'm not actively reading every TTRPGs forums looking for stuff to be upset about or reading every post on D&D beyond to find a cause to be upset. Or thinking about the implications of each ruling or header to go "i think someone might be upset that wizards only get a d6 hit die becauae that suggests that person is frail and frail people will find that offensive"
edit: and while it might of been just a shower thought from OP that's not how it often comes across lately.
Mostly? I mean, the mechanics are utterly ridiculous if they're supposed to represent traumatic stress/PTSD.
Ok, even if that is pure flavour text, AND the only possible ways to get "madness" in 5e are supernatural, it still doesn't change the fact that many of the effects are almost identical to the effects of real world serious mental conditions. This, coupled with the fact that our is literally called madness and madness is a word which has been used throughout the ages to point to mental health issues, or would be completely reasonable for someone to associate it with mental health issues.
Please remember that I'm not saying that madness in 5e is offensive, only that dismissing issues that people have with a link between the game effect and a real world issues is a lazy and barely valid argument. "It's just a game" just doesn't cut it.
1) If it was just people who "read the synopsis"and took offense on other people's behalf, I could sympathise with your position. But it isn't. People have come on here for several different reasons who have played D&D for a long time, have intimate knowledge of the rules, lore, settings and history, and have explained their own experiences and how they have been made to feel uncomfortable by it. Real people, real problems. Yet they get dismissed with "it's just a game". Yeah, maybe D&D is, but their experiences are not! Try showing the tiniest bit of compassion for your fellow humans!
2) Nobody here is don't that, it's all in your head. I'm not even saying I think madness is offensive (and very few on here have said they think it is), I'm only pointing out a very faulty piece of "reasoning" being used in every one of these discussions.
If he is asking a question of such little importance, then surely you are complaining about something of no greater importance. If people asking whether something in a ttrpg might be insensitive is the biggest worry today for you....
How relevant a link there is for someone is not for you to decide. It's not for me to decide, either.
What I am saying is that dismissing someone else's life experiences and telling them they should not be offended or find something upsetting because "it's just a game" is callous, insensitive, and generally a horrible way to treat another human being.
That's true but I'm not sure why it's relevant? There is nothing inherently insensitive about having people in a game who have mental health issues. It's maybe worth adding a warning, because it's tricky for the DM to handle well, but I would say to the degree D&D has a sensitivity problem around madness it's with their use as NPCs, not with the rules in the DMG (for example, I'm not enthusiastic about a lot of the NPCs in CoS, because there's a few specifically mad people being used to add color, and a bunch of people not specifically described as mad who still have pretty crippling mental issues).
As I've said multiple times, I'm not saying that madness in 5e is offensive or even insensitive.
What I am saying is that, by responding to this question and others like it with "it's just a game", you dismiss the experiences of those who are affected by it. You tell them that their experiences don't matter, that they should not find anything in the game upsetting, because "it's just a game". You tell them that you don't care how they feel, what they have been through.
And that IS insensitive.
"You can be the juiciest, ripest peach in the bowl, and there'll always be someone who doesn't like peaches."
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I don't recall ever saying anything of the sort?