Folks, I didn't start this thread so we could rehash all the same old grumbles about licensing content and paying per platform. I started it because I was miffed as to why WotC was inking another deal for what Curse is already doing with D&D Beyond.
We all know WotC is out to make cash or else this product wouldn't exist and neither would the forthcoming Reader product. I mean, the point of for profit business is, after all, profit.
I just question WotC's wisdom in creating a competing partnership instead of standing behind the "official" offering from Curse. That is all.
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Grant K. Smith A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
Folks, I didn't start this thread so we could rehash all the same old grumbles about licensing content and paying per platform. I started it because I was miffed as to why WotC was inking another deal for what Curse is already doing with D&D Beyond.
We all know WotC is out to make cash or else this product wouldn't exist and neither would the forthcoming Reader product. I mean, the point of for profit business is, after all, profit.
I just question WotC's wisdom in creating a competing partnership instead of standing behind the "official" offering from Curse. That is all.
Based on some of the non-comment comments, and non-denials coming out of the DDB team, it seems like there actually might be some connection between the DDB app and DDR. We will have to see. :-/
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Well, from my point of view it just looks like a different version of viewing the information. DDB has tools and such for creating and managing characters and campaigns (which should get better with time :p ). This looks like it's geared toward specifically having the books in digital format. So I'm thinking it's more like reaching a different set of people that don't want the "bells and whistles".
Well, from my point of view it just looks like a different version of viewing the information. DDB has tools and such for creating and managing characters and campaigns (which should get better with time :p ). This looks like it's geared toward specifically having the books in digital format. So I'm thinking it's more like reaching a different set of people that don't want the "bells and whistles".
The DDB app we have been promised will also be for accessing the books we purchase through DDB, including offline.
If the price for both is the same (ie. $30 for PHB vs $30 for PHB) I do not understand why someone who choose the inferior option?
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Paizo make their money by forcing anyone who wants to use their content digitally to purchase the PDF. The only time customers pay twice is if they only have the physical books and don't own the pdf yet. Again the choice for WOTC not to sell PDF's is a choice.
Paizo obtained it's core from the OGL and I believe that almost all of their rules and mechanics (not stories or artwork) fall under the OGL. Which means no one has to pay to use their content online. Which is why you can find full text of all their rules online and they can't shut them down. Which is why they sell their PDFs so cheap is to make a little extra money, because other than the art and stories, passing around their PDFs isn't illegal. No one -has- to pay to use their mechanics or rules of even fluff that is rules specific for the most part, so they make it easy and work with everyone who wants to work with them because they want what money they can get.
D&D has a license to protect, they don't want to dilute or devalue their brand, so they are working with high quality professionals to make the best tools.
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The most memorable stories always begin with failure.
Paizo make their money by forcing anyone who wants to use their content digitally to purchase the PDF. The only time customers pay twice is if they only have the physical books and don't own the pdf yet. Again the choice for WOTC not to sell PDF's is a choice.
Paizo obtained it's core from the OGL and I believe that almost all of their rules and mechanics (not stories or artwork) fall under the OGL. Which means no one has to pay to use their content online. Which is why you can find full text of all their rules online and they can't shut them down. Which is why they sell their PDFs so cheap is to make a little extra money, because other than the art and stories, passing around their PDFs isn't illegal. No one -has- to pay to use their mechanics or rules of even fluff that is rules specific for the most part, so they make it easy and work with everyone who wants to work with them because they want what money they can get.
D&D has a license to protect, they don't want to dilute or devalue their brand, so they are working with high quality professionals to make the best tools.
If you think Dragon+ is "high quality" or a "best tool" I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you...
Anyway, while your first sentence about Paizo is true, Paizo's core business and money maker is its Adventure Path line (pre-packaged campaigns) which takes place in its own campaign setting, neither of which can be legally reproduced under the OGL. They also have a Community Use Policy which does allow reproducing those protected elements, provided it is freely available, so this is a bit of a false equivalence -- they are giving away their stuff for free online as a business strategy rather than as a necessity. If they removed the CUP, sites like Archive of Nethys could not exist, and you'd be limited to seeing only what is actually available under the OGL (which does not include proper names, much like the SRD for 5th Edition has "Magnificent Mansion" instead of "Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion" as one example). In any case, passing around a PDF from Paizo (or any other game publisher that uses the OGL) is indeed in violation of US Copyright law, and the fact that Paizo uses the OGL is not a cogent counterpoint to why WotC does not offer PDFs.
If I had to guess, the main reason WotC does not offer PDFs is because a) they don't want to piss off brick and mortar game stores and b) they have management with backwards views of the internet and how content sharing/piracy works. While D&D isn't all that big of a money-maker (comparatively speaking; 5e is the #1 best-selling tabletop RPG on the market after all), having many stores suddenly stop carrying and selling and promoting MtG could cause a huge hit on their bottom line. They do not need a webstore in order to sell PDFs, as they already sell a number of PDFs for older editions through DriveThru. They could simply add the 5th edition PDFs there. Maybe 1-2 additional staff need to be hired in order to get the PDFs into shape for the release date, but that's not a huge expenditure and their ROI on it would be nearly instantaneous.
In any case, going back to the topic, I view D&D Reader as affirming that case "b" is more likely than case "a" above. Offering the content via a mobile app and offering a PDF is much the same in the view of store owners -- either way that's a way to get at the content without buying the physical book. What a mobile app offers over a PDF is that it is supposedly harder to pirate or share the contents with others. Whether or not this is true remains to be seen, but giving a platform-locked content is definitely more of a consumer-hostile move than offering something that can be viewed on any of the consumer's devices at their leisure, and for this reason (along with my distrust that the app will be even remotely usable) I will not even be bothering with D&D Reader at all.
Some people just don't care about the other tools DDB provides, or consider it just "fluff" that's useless to them. It becomes opinion at that point.
Even if they're wrong! (Note: It's a joke...)
I understand that some people don't want the added bonuses, but I cannot comprehend buying an inferior product.
If you buy DDR, you only get access to those books on the reader app, on your device.
If you buy DDB for the same price you will get that offline app access, and you will also get online desktop access (that can then be utilized with a VTT like Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds), as well as the "bells and whistles".
Maybe you don't think you will ever have use for those bells and whistles, but if in the future you change your mind, and you bought DDR, you will then have to pay again to get those bells and whistles from DDB, when you could have got what you originally wanted in the first place, for the same price, and be "future-proofed".
Choice for the sake of choice isn't always a beneficial thing.
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Some people just don't care about the other tools DDB provides, or consider it just "fluff" that's useless to them. It becomes opinion at that point.
Even if they're wrong! (Note: It's a joke...)
I understand that some people don't want the added bonuses, but I cannot comprehend buying an inferior product.
If you buy DDR, you only get access to those books on the reader app, on your device.
If you buy DDB for the same price you will get that offline app access, and you will also get online desktop access (that can then be utilized with a VTT like Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds), as well as the "bells and whistles".
Maybe you don't think you will ever have use for those bells and whistles, but if in the future you change your mind, and you bought DDR, you will then have to pay again to get those bells and whistles from DDB, when you could have got what you originally wanted in the first place, for the same price, and be "future-proofed".
Choice for the sake of choice isn't always a beneficial thing.
And my concern is where WotC should be promoting D&D Beyond, it's now pushing yet another product.
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Grant K. Smith A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
I agree with you on most of your points, I wasn't trying to make a perfect equivalency between what Paizo does and D&D selling PDFs or not. As you mentioned above, the community use package covers proper names and artwork, however it doesn't cover mechanics and that was my point. (Also it doesn't allow for commercial use, so isn't really in the scope of what I was talking about at all)
I know nothing of the Dragon+ digital product, and while it may be the worst product in the history of the world, I will wait to see what D&D reader is and has to offer before making a decision if it will work for me or not. For now, I am a legendary subscriber here and have little need for such a reader other than maybe for my Fire Tablet.
As per PDFs not being offered, I believe that it is mostly a case of trying to maintain the value of their product and offering added services for the price. Most people wouldn't pay $30 for a PDF of a core book without added benefit I would guess, but I could be wrong too however the perceived slight of selling, for what most PDF purchasers may consider, is an inflated price, may lead to the opposite effect and create more piracy.
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The most memorable stories always begin with failure.
The piracy thing will always be an issue, no matter how small the cost is. People tried to get around it here on DDB starting on hour 1 with homebrew stuff, using their physical books to try and publish material. I've seen $0.99 cost PDFs being pirated. If there's a PDF, it will be pirated within an hour, a day at most. PDF is pretty much the best thing to ever happen to piracy.
I bought the PHB, DMG and MM on D&D Beyond with the understanding that my purchase would eventually include offline access via a DDB app, because that is what we were told.
You can relax - this hasn't changed! :)
If you have purchased the Player's Handbook for use on D&D Beyond, then you'll be able to access the Player's Handbook via the D&D Beyond mobile app, without paying extra for it.
One disclaimer on that - will there be a cost for the mobile app? I don't know, so I can't comment on that.
I can assure you 100% though that any content you have paid for on D&D Beyond will also be available to you in the D&D mobile app.
I have no info on D&D Reader that I am able to share.
No, we are not requiring anyone to pre-order Xanathar's Guide to Everything in order to access our upcoming mobile app. Everyone will be able to access that as soon as it's available for public release. The app itself will also be free.
We are allowing those that pre-order the book the chance to participate in alpha testing for the mobile app where we can get feedback before releasing to the public.
It's not a money grab because no additional money is being exchanged - Xanathar's will still be the same price after November 10th.
I don't think anyone updated on this, but I found this useful quote
Don't mean to dredge up an older post (only a little over a week since last post) but this was the most recent thread I found and I didn't want to be that guy to start a new thread without searching for an old one.
I am just curious if anything new has developed or if there has been new information about the DND reader and/or the DND beyond app. Getting back into playing in person more with folks and was debating on how I would make my future purchases.
Apparently the D&D Beyond app is in alpha testing now. The first 10,000 or so people to pre-order Zanathars Guide will get to be in said alpha. Unless testing goes really fast and really well, I'm not expecting a full roll-out until Chrstmas.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Apparently the D&D Beyond app is in alpha testing now. The first 10,000 or so people to pre-order Zanathars Guide will get to be in said alpha. Unless testing goes really fast and really well, I'm not expecting a full roll-out until Chrstmas.
Where did you see that it's in alpha? I definitely pre-ordered in the first 10,000 and haven't heard anything
Apparently the D&D Beyond app is in alpha testing now. The first 10,000 or so people to pre-order Zanathars Guide will get to be in said alpha. Unless testing goes really fast and really well, I'm not expecting a full roll-out until Chrstmas.
Where did you see that it's in alpha? I definitely pre-ordered in the first 10,000 and haven't heard anything
In the "Pre-Order Bonuses" section:
Pre-order bonuses include: - Expanded Racial Feats: 16 new racial feats for races outside the Player's Handbook. - New digital character sheet image backgrounds and portrait frame options from the book. - Early alpha access to the D&D Beyond compendium/ reader mobile app release later this year.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Alpha testing of the D&D Beyond mobile app has not commenced.
As I understand it, the plan is still that alpha-test access will be later this year and there will be plenty of notification on these forums when that happens.
Apparently the D&D Beyond app is in alpha testing now. The first 10,000 or so people to pre-order Zanathars Guide will get to be in said alpha. Unless testing goes really fast and really well, I'm not expecting a full roll-out until Chrstmas.
Where did you see that it's in alpha? I definitely pre-ordered in the first 10,000 and haven't heard anything
In the "Pre-Order Bonuses" section:
Pre-order bonuses include: - Expanded Racial Feats: 16 new racial feats for races outside the Player's Handbook. - New digital character sheet image backgrounds and portrait frame options from the book. - Early alpha access to the D&D Beyond compendium/ reader mobile app release later this year.
It's not started yet though. They've said time and time again the pre-order bonuses will be delivered at the same time as the release of Xanathar's Guide to Everything on November 10th and I think they may have even stated that alpha access might not be til after that point.
They are back to their old 4th edition game of nickel and diming a great product down to many small transactions. I thought 5th edition was heading in a positive direction without the multiple player handbooks and massive low quality product push. They should really focus on developing a specific game play strategy and continuing to build excitement about the content. I am willing to drop money on these products but it is ridiculous, tedious, and confusing to have to buy multiple copies of a product over multiple platforms (ie. hardcover, fantasy grounds, dnd beyond, and now this potential reader).
And another thing, does anyone else find the digital Dragon magazine subpar? I am very disappointed in the content compared to the old physical copy of the magazine.
It has yet to be clarified, but to my understanding, these are all just varying platform options. You shouldn't need both DDB and DDR just like you wouldn't need both the Xbox and Playstation versions of the same game.
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Folks, I didn't start this thread so we could rehash all the same old grumbles about licensing content and paying per platform. I started it because I was miffed as to why WotC was inking another deal for what Curse is already doing with D&D Beyond.
We all know WotC is out to make cash or else this product wouldn't exist and neither would the forthcoming Reader product. I mean, the point of for profit business is, after all, profit.
I just question WotC's wisdom in creating a competing partnership instead of standing behind the "official" offering from Curse. That is all.
Grant K. Smith
A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Well, from my point of view it just looks like a different version of viewing the information. DDB has tools and such for creating and managing characters and campaigns (which should get better with time :p ). This looks like it's geared toward specifically having the books in digital format. So I'm thinking it's more like reaching a different set of people that don't want the "bells and whistles".
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Some people just don't care about the other tools DDB provides, or consider it just "fluff" that's useless to them. It becomes opinion at that point.
Even if they're wrong! (Note: It's a joke...)
D&D has a license to protect, they don't want to dilute or devalue their brand, so they are working with high quality professionals to make the best tools.
The most memorable stories always begin with failure.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Grant K. Smith
A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
I agree with you on most of your points, I wasn't trying to make a perfect equivalency between what Paizo does and D&D selling PDFs or not. As you mentioned above, the community use package covers proper names and artwork, however it doesn't cover mechanics and that was my point. (Also it doesn't allow for commercial use, so isn't really in the scope of what I was talking about at all)
I know nothing of the Dragon+ digital product, and while it may be the worst product in the history of the world, I will wait to see what D&D reader is and has to offer before making a decision if it will work for me or not. For now, I am a legendary subscriber here and have little need for such a reader other than maybe for my Fire Tablet.
As per PDFs not being offered, I believe that it is mostly a case of trying to maintain the value of their product and offering added services for the price. Most people wouldn't pay $30 for a PDF of a core book without added benefit I would guess, but I could be wrong too however the perceived slight of selling, for what most PDF purchasers may consider, is an inflated price, may lead to the opposite effect and create more piracy.
The most memorable stories always begin with failure.
The piracy thing will always be an issue, no matter how small the cost is. People tried to get around it here on DDB starting on hour 1 with homebrew stuff, using their physical books to try and publish material. I've seen $0.99 cost PDFs being pirated. If there's a PDF, it will be pirated within an hour, a day at most. PDF is pretty much the best thing to ever happen to piracy.
DM for the Adventures in Erylia Podcast
Where five friends sit around the table and record themselves playing Dungeons and Dragons
Don't mean to dredge up an older post (only a little over a week since last post) but this was the most recent thread I found and I didn't want to be that guy to start a new thread without searching for an old one.
I am just curious if anything new has developed or if there has been new information about the DND reader and/or the DND beyond app. Getting back into playing in person more with folks and was debating on how I would make my future purchases.
Thanks.
Apparently the D&D Beyond app is in alpha testing now. The first 10,000 or so people to pre-order Zanathars Guide will get to be in said alpha. Unless testing goes really fast and really well, I'm not expecting a full roll-out until Chrstmas.
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D&D Beyond FoundersAlpha testing of the D&D Beyond mobile app has not commenced.
As I understand it, the plan is still that alpha-test access will be later this year and there will be plenty of notification on these forums when that happens.
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They are back to their old 4th edition game of nickel and diming a great product down to many small transactions. I thought 5th edition was heading in a positive direction without the multiple player handbooks and massive low quality product push. They should really focus on developing a specific game play strategy and continuing to build excitement about the content. I am willing to drop money on these products but it is ridiculous, tedious, and confusing to have to buy multiple copies of a product over multiple platforms (ie. hardcover, fantasy grounds, dnd beyond, and now this potential reader).
And another thing, does anyone else find the digital Dragon magazine subpar? I am very disappointed in the content compared to the old physical copy of the magazine.
It has yet to be clarified, but to my understanding, these are all just varying platform options. You shouldn't need both DDB and DDR just like you wouldn't need both the Xbox and Playstation versions of the same game.