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I feel you are missing the point... are you trying to de-populate the server? By outright rejecting other people and their line of thinking that's pretty much what you are saying right? Buy it or get lost? That's a fantastic marketing scheme. Curse should hire you... really.
i've followed games where their so called "fans" are basically uncompromising with the buy it or get lost attitude, and more or less try to shut down arguments from other consumers... there are graveyards of dead games - with now empty chat because of that type of thinking. Then those same players are going "what happened? Why did this fail?"
so in a way, I think the people telling curse what they don't like are actually contributing more than say - someone who just tells everyone else to shut up. If you like the game and everything the way it is, that's fine. Great even. But please. Let Curse handle their own marketing and decide what's best for their consumers.
Here's food for thought...this is not an actual Nintendo game, or a PS 4 game...something you can pick up and play anytime you want. This is a game that is based on information; information through books. Books people have already purchased for the most part. They purchased them because this app was not available at the time. Perhaps if it was, people would not be complaining. Comparing this to a video game is like comparing a lemur to a Mini Cooper. I can go home, flick on the PS4 and just start playing. Some would say the app should have come first and would have received far comments and reviews From he people that are unhappy.
Im not saying there is no value to this program, or that it's not any good. I'm saying people don't want to pay for "information" twice. And people are trying. They are throwing options that would be suitable to them out there. Rejecting them out of hand by anyone other than curse is just stupid and ignorant. For a game like this, you want to collect a massive player base. More the merrier.
and yes, people who pay a sub will in the long run pay more... but, they want that option because for them, they realize that they may not get the long term use out of this program that others may. Or next month something better may come along. So to them, dropping more money on books they own... information they own....is folly.
i say - outright telling anyone to suck it up or... that's just the way it is, is folly. Time will tell.
If a person is not thinking they are going to be using this service long-term, and they already have the books, then paying for a hypothetical monthly "all access" subscription is folly for the same reasons that paying the currently offered pricing would be - the person can just spend their time, instead of money, and input the info they need from the books they already have and save all of their money, rather than just most of it.
And if the "get everything ridiculously cheap" option is only going to be picked up by customers that aren't going to stick around long term, that's another item in the "reasons not to offer that kind of pricing" column for Curse.
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Given the release pace of the books and the announced pricing for buying things outright, the only way an "unlock everything" subscription would be worth it if it was like $15/mo at most (including all Master tier features). At $15/mo including Master tier, you're paying $9/mo for content, or $108/year. "Rent everything" subs are only good ideas generally speaking if it works out to less than it would be to buy everything separately, assuming you get literally everything. Now, there is a backlog to consider, which is why I said $15/mo (gives $180/year price).
Consider their product schedule up to this point (using D&D Beyond's prices):
Outside of the frontloaded first year, it looks like Wizards has settled into 2 adventures and 1 sourcebook each year. This would mean an $80 yearly investment to unlock everything permanently. Any subscription to unlock things temporarily would therefore be less than $80 a year should it have started back in 2014. However, considering the backlog, having it higher than $80/year can help "pay down" the backlog, but ends up being more expensive long-term. The long-term would therefore ideally be far enough in the future that the user isn't likely to hit that point. Some more math (assuming $80/year in new releases on top of backlog. To keep the math easy, I'm treating all 2017 releases as "backlog" even though it isn't out yet, i.e. this is for a subscription starting in 2018)
Largely this follows the equation 380 + 80 * t = 12 * x * t, where x is the monthly subscription price (for the content portion only, so not including Master or Hero features or whatnot), and t is time in years.
As can be seen, t=7 is probably a bit too cheap (would be $10/mo incl Hero Tier or $13/mo incl Master Tier), as that gives 95 years before you start paying more for the sub than you would buying the products outright, meaning the margins are probably a bit too low for comfort on Curse/WotC's end. t=9 gives a good balance in my opinion ($12/mo Hero, $15/mo Master). It will probably outlast the lifetime of 5th edition, but not by a lot. This makes the subscription appealing as it's cheaper than buying every book, but still increases revenue versus people only buying books piecemeal. t=12 is on the reasonable side of high given the logic above ($15/mo Hero, $18/mo Master); it will still possibly outlast 5th edition but may end up being bad towards the end of the edition. t=14 ($17/mo Hero, $20/mo Master) is way too high.
Ikerus
Are you talking to me??? Not really clear on this forum from my iPad.
If you are talking to me that's not what I am saying at all. What I'm saying is the exact thing that I said. If you don't want to buy it, don't.
And also stop complaining :)
If you already have the book you bought, you paid for what you get. D&D Beyond is simply another product. You get portions of it for free.
Not really sure what the rest of your long statement says because I really don't have the time or desire to read through the rest, but if you are replying to me then I simply say to you STOP COMPLAINING, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY IT.
And if you're not talking to me well, then yeah have a nice day :)
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― Brandon Sanderson, The Way of Kings
Agree. At the very least, take advantage of the "next staff members post" button. Read the official responses.
I'm paraphrasing on the name of that button. :-) It's located on the top right of any of the official red posts.
Haha point proven. Pretty much the response I've expected. Wonderful player-base you're collecting here curse. I'm sure it'll make people all warm and fuzzy inside - ready to throw piles of money into playing with them to be sure.
I've never said once to cancel the payment options they currently have. I'm saying some people literally might not be able to afford buying the content again up front - no matter what format it's in. Or they just don't want to. So if there was a player base of 200 people let's say... And half of them would purchase the way things are currently set up, and the other half can't or won't purchase it with the current set up... You guys would argue and rather see half the player base diminish? That means a lot of lost revenue for curse. Those same players might purchase more down the road. Or it might be more attractive for people wanting to get in and get their feet wet... Those people also may purchase down the road
So people want to pay a reasonable sub. Whether they are unsure of the future of the product or The upfront cost alone is enough to deter them. Isn't that their choice if the option is there? That still doesn't impact your own purchasing method. You are very much welcome purchase all the content and then own it.
3 months... 5 months down the road, perhaps those players paying subs decides it is in their interest financially or what not to purchase the books and content. Is that not also a win for everyone. Again, in no way does that impact what you have payed or purchased. I might purchase for my group... So why in any which way do you give a rats behind if people want another pay option? Let them ask for it and have it if curse decides it's a good idea. Argue argue argue... It in no way effects you. If they want to pay 4000 dollars more in the long run - let them! If it increases playerbase and gets them comfortable enough to buy...again... What the &@#_ do any of you care?
Unlike a PS4 game or any other console game; you need to find a group to play with for D&D. I've been hearing about the horror stories of finding groups. If you are One of the lucky ones to have found a player base or good DM, then congrats. But for some, that uncertainty is also enhanced by a large paywall of not to invest. The game is fresh. As time goes on, without a good incentive to jump in, the player base might become less and less. A lot of groups will fill up, find their core players and that's that.
As I said, I have a pretty solid group. Some of which can't afford that pay wall I mentioned. So ok, I have a good group, I have the finances to purchase the content and pay the Dm sub so I can play with these players. But some don't. So it might be worth my money and time. .we'll see. I wish it was a bit more of a VTT, but whatever. Most can't and that means less players.
Not everyone has the time to input all the information either. Again, telling people it's free. . Take it or leave it is stupid. I'd rather people take it. No one is telling you not to purchase...so why are you people all up in everyone else's faces about what they want to see as payment options as consumers?
And you totally read my whole post. Just like you read this one.
Now we're done son.
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D&D Beyond FoundersOk everyone, it's time for the regular reminder to calm down a bit please, before we start issuing formal warnings.
All of this feedback is valuable - please don't tell other users that they shouldn't express their opinions or thoughts.
Curse are actively encouraging you all to let them know what you think, so please do so - as long as it's within the forum rules & guidelines.
Many of you will disagree with each other and that is ok - please explain your perspective and that's great, but don't attack other users for their opinions - it won't be tolerated here.
Thank you. :)
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I don't understand the apparent need some have to buy everything all at once. I'm going to stagger my purchases, slowly building my digital library. At launch I'm only buying the core books. I'm sure if WOtC had released a dozen hardbacks at the beginning of 5e, we'd all have sticker shock then too. I'm going to simulate the slow release schedule with my Beyond purchases. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.
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That's also the beauty of piecemeal purchasing. You don't have to get everything, just chip in on the cost of the 3 core books, the module you want to run, and then buy just the races and spells needed. I get times are tough all around, but if my player wants to make a Kenku, surely he can come up with $4 or however much it costs for just that content.
The math for my group to start at launch with everything we need is rougly $10 each. I'll pay for my own Master sub, but they usually buy me dinner on game nights so that evens out in my mind.
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To be honest I don't personally care if it costs more over the long term. That's true of some other services too.
I will be buying all the (paper) books too, so adding a theoretical $15 monthly charge to automatically have access to the digital versions is for convenience and to avoid increasing the height of the spending spike during a release.