People still play Birthright and I'm almost positive that it hasn't seen any real marketing or new content in almost two decades. I'm confident that more popular settings are doing just fine, even if they are not getting a public spotlight.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
But how many people are going around wanting content for Birthright? Id bet that most of those people running it are also people who played Birthright when it came out. But effectively Birthright is dead, especially if a new campaign guide doesn't come out.
I'm not saying FR is going to become extinct in the next ten years, but in the next 20? Without a campaign guide it might be.
People still play Birthright and I'm almost positive that it hasn't seen any real marketing or new content in almost two decades. I'm confident that more popular settings are doing just fine, even if they are not getting a public spotlight.
Yep. Eberron has multiple podcasts and I see threads about it on almost every forum I visit, not to mention on twitter.
A small amount of mention and chatter from wotc would probably do the same for previously popular settings like Dragonlance, imo.
I think a book that updates the mechanics and amonsters and such for a half dozen settings with notes on worldbuilding and on using the multiverse would sell really well, btw, in part bc those old settings haven't died.
Personally, I find "people still playing Birthright" and "effectively Birthright is dead" to be mutually exclusive. If it has fans and people playing it, it's still alive. Besides, doing a quick search shows that there is quite a bit of new content with fans posting 5e Birthright conversions and forum conversations. It may be in a small community, but there is an active community. It looks like Birthright is alive with fans enjoying it and sharing new content for it.
In terms of commercial viability, I'd guess it's pretty low on WotC's list, but that's certainly an awfully narrow and odd definition of "dead setting." It's rare, but in the past 3PP have licensed D&D settings and their bar for commercial viability is dramatically lower. Not to mention, all it would take is one really, really good storyline/adventure idea, and I could see WotC bringing back any of their settings. So it's all very fluid and dynamic, and one thing we don't want to be dynamic and changing is what we claim is "dead." (Even wrote one of my Ph.D. comps on that, but that's neither here not there.) :)
We may see mentions of nautiloids thrown to Spelljammer fanboys in a Yolo's Guide, but we wont' be getting a book that lays out what's been happening, timeline-wise, for Spelljammer, or Dark Sun, or Greyhawk, or Sigil, or Eberron. WotC may come out with entirely new settings, but the old settings are just there to mine useful / profitable chunks of stuff out of, and otherwise are going to just... sit there.
Am I wrong?
I'm not sure if Chris Perkins thinks that the old settings are "effectively dead", but Mike Mearls says that WotC are looking at ways to bring all the settings back..."even Spellammer".
The only thing we really have to go on - at the moment - is Curse of Strahd.
When they get around to doing a product with a tie-in to another campaign setting, we can get a better idea of how much stuff they might be chopping out and how much stuff they are going to build up.
I've quit the "Edition Treadmill" so the campaign setting tie-ins (including the Forgotten Realms ones) are the only things that are making me buy post 3rd Edition products. For me - if not for other people - this stuff is Dungeons & Dragons.
I've had a couple of friends (who like older editions than me) tell me that 3rd Edition has a different play style to AD&D and there is probably some truth to that. I know I've heard people say that about 4th Edition. So, it could be that the 5th Edition rules make some elements of other D&D campaign settings have a greater or lesser focus than before. But that's fine. I think that, if people really like the "old school feel" they could use the new 5th Edition products with the old school D&D rules. And then the feel would be identical to the original feel.
So I'm not too bothered about slight differences. I'm more concerned with two things that might happen:
A radical reboot (that makes it very difficult to use material from multiple editions) or
WotC taking so long to "plan" the 5th Edition return of the "all the settings", that someone decides to nuke 5th Edition and announces that 6th Edition is going to come out.
I've seen the 3rd Edition Era pass without some settings returning and I've seen the 4th Edition Era pass without some settings returning, so I honestly worry about that last thing a lot more than anything else. It's actually made me want to not spend time learning the new rules, because I'm not confident that they are going to be the rules of my D&D setting.
Personally, I find "people still playing Birthright" and "effectively Birthright is dead" to be mutually exclusive. If it has fans and people playing it, it's still alive. Besides, doing a quick search shows that there is quite a bit of new content with fans posting 5e Birthright conversions and forum conversations. It may be in a small community, but there is an active community. It looks like Birthright is alive with fans enjoying it and sharing new content for it.
In terms of commercial viability, I'd guess it's pretty low on WotC's list, but that's certainly an awfully narrow and odd definition of "dead setting." It's rare, but in the past 3PP have licensed D&D settings and their bar for commercial viability is dramatically lower. Not to mention, all it would take is one really, really good storyline/adventure idea, and I could see WotC bringing back any of their settings. So it's all very fluid and dynamic, and one thing we don't want to be dynamic and changing is what we claim is "dead." (Even wrote one of my Ph.D. comps on that, but that's neither here not there.) :)
So how would you define a setting as "dead"?
It is my prediction that the community of Birthright players will continue to shrink until eventually they don't exist. Which is why I am saying it is "effectively" dead. Also while there may be a small community online, how old are the people running those games? How spread out are they? Are there people playing games or are they just talking about it? Can I join a birthright game within my state without having to be the one running it? How many people are playing Birthright because they love it and not because it is the only thing the DM will run?
A lot of questions that I can't really answer, but would be important to answer.
Heck I have a 2 page pdf that explains how to adapt everything from 3.5e and 4e to 5e... using original material.. no need to redo and reprint the same stuff for 5e..
Heck I have a 2 page pdf that explains how to adapt everything from 3.5e and 4e to 5e... using original material.. no need to redo and reprint the same stuff for 5e..
Pretty much this. I've invested so much in old material of my favorite settings (pretty much Nentir Vale and Dark Sun), that I have ideas for at least another ten years worth of campaigns and adventures using those settings. And that pdf allows me to play 5e using just my old material. No need for spending more money in the same product. I can save for a new one.
I've only been interested in D&D since Jan 2017, so have no prior knowledge of Forgotten Realms and its history. However, I'm currently running 3 games set within Forgotten Realms. The first one was based on the back of the Starter Kit, which I've since discovered has plenty of little nods to previous Realms lore and events. The second of which is currently 18 sessions into the adventure, which started back in March. The adventure started in Waterdeep and took the party down to the Black Jungles and Chult (so imagine my surprise when Wizards announced their latest adventure would happen in Chult!).
My third is for a seasoned group of tabletop gamers starting in two weeks time, this is starting in Waterdeep too.
I started blank, with no knowledge, but through a mix of official 5e source books and adventures, reading old AD&D, 3.5e and the FR wiki I've managed to create my own FR to play in. I've enjoyed the world building aspect of it, and it's one I've shared with the players. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I've appreciated the freedom currently available to do my own thing within a framework. The difficult stuff has been done for me - geography, religion, etc. I get to focus on the fun stuff like populating cities, towns and villages with NPCs, quests, adventures, encounters, etc.
I have my own little OneNote file that I'm starting to build up into my own FR Guide. It seems to work. Here's a little link for those interested: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ao8bWqC7-pqnhi-F1LAvFdjUzK3l I won't leave it up too long though, in case my players somehow stumble upon it!
SobekRe linked to a great list. Just to annotate a bit with my opinion on at least which are the "big settings" as opposed to "released 1 product" sort of things.
From first edition AD&D and the BECMI rules, the main settings were:
Greyhawk - Although already starting it's fade into the background
Mystara/Known World (although more BECMI than AD&D) - included Hollow World
Forgotten Realms - included Kara Tur somewhat, but more of that was later if I recall
Ravenloft - although I think more just the original adventure than a full setting yet?
Then in second edition AD&D is when the big Campaign Setting boom happened. On the one hand, it was a great time to have options, but on the other hand, it was likely a contributing factor in TSR's financial problems being spread across so many product lines. Mystara started it's fade into the background, I think, with more focus on AD&D than the BECMI in 2e. But each of these settings below had numerous adventure modules, boxed sets, and in some cases even multiple boxed sets. (And you could easily double this list with the "one-off" and other short term settings. These, however, are the major settings that had ongoing product lines.)
Greyhawk
Forgotten Realms - including several settings that were part of the same world, but separately branded including Al Qadim (a lot of support), Kara Tur/Oriental Adventures (boxed set and decent line of adventures, I think), Maztica (some support to squeak onto this list), Horde (not much at all, but they really tried to make it a full product line, so it gets honorable mention)
Ravenloft - full fledged major setting now
Planescape
Dark Sun
Dragonlance
Spelljammer
Third edition brought a major tightening down on campaign settings to avoid the problems of 2e. Greyhawk even got in a weird state of "the default setting, so mentioned in the all the core rulebooks, but really no actual products of its own." Dragonlance and Ravenloft were supported by third party companies and not even WotC at that point. So, if I recall right the only settings that actually had support of actual product lines and not just a one-off or Dragon mag articles were:
Forgotten Realms - Just FR proper now, all of the sub-settings weren't really supported in 3e.
Eberron
Fourth edition brought us Nentir Vale as the default setting, but like Greyhawk before it, was the "default with no actual product line." And, like 5e, WotC wasn't much into campaign settings as ongoing product lines as opposed to a grouped "event." So, under the idea above of a "major setting" being a product line, then there really haven't been any campaign settings since 3e. Just a few one-offs of older settings. *shrug*
So, really, FR has been the main setting with by far the most support since pretty early on. 2e was really the golden years of campaign settings with all sorts of very imaginative and amazing settings. Thankfully, a lot of that material is available at DMsGuild.com and so much of it is setting flavor and not mechanics that it is all very usable still. 3e setting material tended to be more mechanics-heavy with new prestige classes, feats, etc. but the 2e stuff has far less emphasis on that which makes them still very useful.
Heck I have a 2 page pdf that explains how to adapt everything from 3.5e and 4e to 5e... using original material.. no need to redo and reprint the same stuff for 5e..
Would you be willing to share said .pdf document. Would make old bookstore stops a bit more interesting....
As an Eberron fan (and someone who wants to see more than one setting supported, regardless of which), I highly, highly recommend checking out https://manifest.zone/.
I find a lot of 4e stuff (my 2nd favorite edition after 5th) is a little troublesome to convert over to 5e due to the giant differences in basically everything. Trying to make 4e Dark Sun into 5e by myself to run a game seems...overwhelming. I tried to convert 1 race and it came out kind of bad.
I find a lot of 4e stuff (my 2nd favorite edition after 5th) is a little troublesome to convert over to 5e due to the giant differences in basically everything. Trying to make 4e Dark Sun into 5e by myself to run a game seems...overwhelming. I tried to convert 1 race and it came out kind of bad.
Yes, it might be easier to just go back to the boxed set. Races were simpler then.
Also, there's some fan conversions out there that might work. That link is one decent looking one, but it looks like there's many others.
My personal wishlist for setting updates are, (in order):
Planescape
Darksun
Eberron
Though Im a huge FR fan and have been now running 3 5e campaigns there, I would like to expand my DMing to these 3 settings, particularly Planescape, which really is a portal to all multiverse settings ;-)
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People still play Birthright and I'm almost positive that it hasn't seen any real marketing or new content in almost two decades. I'm confident that more popular settings are doing just fine, even if they are not getting a public spotlight.
But how many people are going around wanting content for Birthright? Id bet that most of those people running it are also people who played Birthright when it came out. But effectively Birthright is dead, especially if a new campaign guide doesn't come out.
I'm not saying FR is going to become extinct in the next ten years, but in the next 20? Without a campaign guide it might be.
We do bones, motherf***ker!
Personally, I find "people still playing Birthright" and "effectively Birthright is dead" to be mutually exclusive. If it has fans and people playing it, it's still alive. Besides, doing a quick search shows that there is quite a bit of new content with fans posting 5e Birthright conversions and forum conversations. It may be in a small community, but there is an active community. It looks like Birthright is alive with fans enjoying it and sharing new content for it.
In terms of commercial viability, I'd guess it's pretty low on WotC's list, but that's certainly an awfully narrow and odd definition of "dead setting." It's rare, but in the past 3PP have licensed D&D settings and their bar for commercial viability is dramatically lower. Not to mention, all it would take is one really, really good storyline/adventure idea, and I could see WotC bringing back any of their settings. So it's all very fluid and dynamic, and one thing we don't want to be dynamic and changing is what we claim is "dead." (Even wrote one of my Ph.D. comps on that, but that's neither here not there.) :)
So how would you define a setting as "dead"?
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
(You can see more of me at the D&D forums at The Piazza.)
I want to believe.
⬐ If you thought I added value to the conversation, please let me know!
I've quit the "Edition Treadmill" so the campaign setting tie-ins (including the Forgotten Realms ones) are the only things that are making me buy post 3rd Edition products. For me - if not for other people - this stuff is Dungeons & Dragons.
I've seen the 3rd Edition Era pass without some settings returning and I've seen the 4th Edition Era pass without some settings returning, so I honestly worry about that last thing a lot more than anything else. It's actually made me want to not spend time learning the new rules, because I'm not confident that they are going to be the rules of my D&D setting.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
(You can see more of me at the D&D forums at The Piazza.)
Heck I have a 2 page pdf that explains how to adapt everything from 3.5e and 4e to 5e... using original material.. no need to redo and reprint the same stuff for 5e..
Time fades even legend...
I've only been interested in D&D since Jan 2017, so have no prior knowledge of Forgotten Realms and its history. However, I'm currently running 3 games set within Forgotten Realms. The first one was based on the back of the Starter Kit, which I've since discovered has plenty of little nods to previous Realms lore and events. The second of which is currently 18 sessions into the adventure, which started back in March. The adventure started in Waterdeep and took the party down to the Black Jungles and Chult (so imagine my surprise when Wizards announced their latest adventure would happen in Chult!).
My third is for a seasoned group of tabletop gamers starting in two weeks time, this is starting in Waterdeep too.
I started blank, with no knowledge, but through a mix of official 5e source books and adventures, reading old AD&D, 3.5e and the FR wiki I've managed to create my own FR to play in. I've enjoyed the world building aspect of it, and it's one I've shared with the players. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I've appreciated the freedom currently available to do my own thing within a framework. The difficult stuff has been done for me - geography, religion, etc. I get to focus on the fun stuff like populating cities, towns and villages with NPCs, quests, adventures, encounters, etc.
I have my own little OneNote file that I'm starting to build up into my own FR Guide. It seems to work. Here's a little link for those interested: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ao8bWqC7-pqnhi-F1LAvFdjUzK3l I won't leave it up too long though, in case my players somehow stumble upon it!
Wikipedia has a pretty good list of settings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_&_Dragons_campaign_settings
SobekRe linked to a great list. Just to annotate a bit with my opinion on at least which are the "big settings" as opposed to "released 1 product" sort of things.
From first edition AD&D and the BECMI rules, the main settings were:
Then in second edition AD&D is when the big Campaign Setting boom happened. On the one hand, it was a great time to have options, but on the other hand, it was likely a contributing factor in TSR's financial problems being spread across so many product lines. Mystara started it's fade into the background, I think, with more focus on AD&D than the BECMI in 2e. But each of these settings below had numerous adventure modules, boxed sets, and in some cases even multiple boxed sets. (And you could easily double this list with the "one-off" and other short term settings. These, however, are the major settings that had ongoing product lines.)
Third edition brought a major tightening down on campaign settings to avoid the problems of 2e. Greyhawk even got in a weird state of "the default setting, so mentioned in the all the core rulebooks, but really no actual products of its own." Dragonlance and Ravenloft were supported by third party companies and not even WotC at that point. So, if I recall right the only settings that actually had support of actual product lines and not just a one-off or Dragon mag articles were:
Fourth edition brought us Nentir Vale as the default setting, but like Greyhawk before it, was the "default with no actual product line." And, like 5e, WotC wasn't much into campaign settings as ongoing product lines as opposed to a grouped "event." So, under the idea above of a "major setting" being a product line, then there really haven't been any campaign settings since 3e. Just a few one-offs of older settings. *shrug*
So, really, FR has been the main setting with by far the most support since pretty early on. 2e was really the golden years of campaign settings with all sorts of very imaginative and amazing settings. Thankfully, a lot of that material is available at DMsGuild.com and so much of it is setting flavor and not mechanics that it is all very usable still. 3e setting material tended to be more mechanics-heavy with new prestige classes, feats, etc. but the 2e stuff has far less emphasis on that which makes them still very useful.
Pain Heals, Chicks Dig Scars, Glory Lasts Forever!
As an Eberron fan (and someone who wants to see more than one setting supported, regardless of which), I highly, highly recommend checking out https://manifest.zone/.
I'd also say that the main settings that are still "alive" are FR, Eberron, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, and Dragonlance.
Also the most supported settings. Each has been very popular at some point in the past, as well, which helps.
We do bones, motherf***ker!
I find a lot of 4e stuff (my 2nd favorite edition after 5th) is a little troublesome to convert over to 5e due to the giant differences in basically everything. Trying to make 4e Dark Sun into 5e by myself to run a game seems...overwhelming. I tried to convert 1 race and it came out kind of bad.
My personal wishlist for setting updates are, (in order):
Though Im a huge FR fan and have been now running 3 5e campaigns there, I would like to expand my DMing to these 3 settings, particularly Planescape, which really is a portal to all multiverse settings ;-)
Forever Dungeon Master & Queer Storyteller