I am sure that this has been covered somewhere in the rule books but it seems to be sorely lacking in the equipment area of the PHB. What abilities are used for the different tools? I can't seem to find any rules on the subject. I am sure that thieves tools use d20 + dex mod+ prof bonus (if proficient), but what about artisan tools? do they use strength or dexterity? or a disguise kit, does it use charisma or dexterity or maybe even wisdom? none of the kits have any information regarding what abilities should be used and have no examples that I have seen.
Also what about mount equipment? is riding an animal a dexterity ability check? a handle animal skill?
Bit & Bridle (2 gp) - Kind of a silly question, but are these actually necessary? PHB says nothing about it other than a price and weight.
Saddlebags (4 gp) - Likewise, there's no information about what the saddlebags do. I'm assuming they just let the horse carry items up to its carrying capacity, minus my character's weight/equipment. what is the volume that a saddlebag can hold? is it the same as a backpack?
Saddles - The Military Saddle (20 gp) has a listed effect. The Pack (5 gp) & Riding (10 gp) Saddles do not. Is there any real difference or point to them?
Generally speaking if there is not some type of saddle, it is generally assumed by DMs everywhere that some type of check would have to be involved. Possibly at disadvantage. I would say that typically a horse who isn't used for military reasons is going to only have a riding saddle. So your PC should buy the military saddle, however horses in the world would that PCs can purchase or rent would have a riding saddle, not a military one.
I'd assume that a Bit & Bridle is required to ride an animal as that is how you tell it which way to go and what you hold on to. For ease of gameplay I'd assume any horse bought would come standard with the Bit & Bridle, and the saddle.
I'd assume the saddle bags can carry small items, probably up to the capacity of the mount. Large + items probably out of the question for the bags themselves. But really the book should have explained all this rather than assume you know. Looks like a place where they were like, no one even looks at this page lets touch on it and then force you to look in an old edition to figure it out.
Since the bags weigh 8 pounds, that would imply they can hold a fix amount and if your mount can carry more, then you would need another bag, but I don't think the rules themselves give any guide here.
So none of my players thus far have engaged in many tool checks but I would just base it on the stat you think most governs the skill. Personally I would use the following:
int - alchemist's supplies, tinker's tools, cartographer's tools, disguise kit wis - brewer's supplies, cook's utensils, forgery kit
cha - painter's supplies (maybe?)
Of course you could argue all day until you are blue in the face that smithing requires dex more than str or that a disguise kit uses wis or cha as much as int. I would say each situation would be unique. So I would ask the player what they are doing while they are using the specific tools. This will help you decide which stat to have them roll. You could also not have them add a stat bonus to the check at all. While the phb does state that it is an ability check, you could homebrew it and just have it be a d20 + prof and then adjust the DC to match this change.
I would agree there, and I suspect this is the reason tool uses in the Handbook are so vague, except for situations that ask for a specific roll.
Your list seems a good guideline for uncertain DMs to follow, though, so I'd keep it in mind.
...with some formatting editing, possibly. When I first saw it, I thought weaver and woodcarver were under Strength, before I realized they have warped from Dexterity.
I have to say I hope WotC never gives details on how to use Artisan Tools or any 5e crafting rules. I like it being open ended for the DM to decide. Like the Disguise Kit example in question. It uses whatever the player think is necessary. Are you trying to look exactly like someone? Are you just trying to fit a certain style of clothing? Are you trying to blend in to a natural environment? Each of these different scenarios can be addressed with 1 Tool Proficiency and a corresponding stat. 1 dice roll to settle a contested moment in a story. It's simple and effective. Don't try to mechanize it too much. Listen to what the player is trying to achieve and pick the right Ability Statistic to allow them to attempt the contest. If they're trying to look like someone from memory, Intelligence. If they're trying to look natural, Wisdom. If they're trying to match a particular fashion of an area, Charisma. Then get creative if the story allows it... Is it a disguise that requires two gnomes standing one each other's shoulders? Dex + Disguise Kit modifier. Do they have to stoop like a dwarf? Con + Disg. Kit. Does it require they wear a set of plate mail when they're only prof in light armor???? Str + Disg. Kit. The tools and kits being so open allows for fast and fun play at the table. Quantify it if you want to, but I hope the writers of the game never do.
I'm perfectly fine with running things this way in my game, but I've been running D&D games for over 30 years, since back before there were skills, so I'm totally comfortable with just picking a relevant stat when someone wants to try something.
I don't think it's helpful for newer DMs or players though and what I think would be beneficial is some good examples on using tools/kits, which are currently missing. Stuff exactly like the examples you've given, I think would be really valuable for newer DMs.
I have to say I hope WotC never gives details on how to use Artisan Tools or any 5e crafting rules.
The Unearthed Arcana downtime rules have expanded it slightly, though they are playtest rules and primarily focus on adding complications & story to downtime.
Without a saddle, technically you can't ride a mount, though the DM may allow it, with Animal Handling skills rolled at disadvantage.
Saddlebags? The carrying capacity varies, depending upon the mount.
Stormknight:
Where does it say you can't ride an animal without a saddle?
All I found is that a military saddle gives Adv to checks to stay in, I found nothing about having a saddle vs not as giving any benefit at all.
Saddles. A military saddle braces the rider, helping you keep your seat on an active mount in battle. It gives you advantage on any check you make to remain mounted. An exotic saddle is required for riding any aquatic or flying mount.
You're right, it doesn't explicitly state it - there really ought to be more text under saddle, but if a saddle does nothing, then there would be zero reason for it to exist!
Given that, "an exotic saddle is required for riding any aquatic or flying mount." it's reasonable to assume the intention is that a normal saddle is required to ride a normal mount.
What kind of Ability checks do you roll for artisan's tools?
What is the character trying to do?
Attempting to make wooden furniture? Probably Dexterity (Woodworker's tools). Attempting to make a wooden bridge to hold the weight of a wagon? Probably Intelligence (Woodworker's tools). Attempting to dismantle a wooden chest so that it can be put together again later? Probably Wisdom (Woodworker's tools), maybe Intelligence (Woodworker's tools). Attempting to break open a wooden chest while not caring about damage to the chest, but wanting to leave the contents undamaged? Probably Strength (Woodworker's tools).
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I am sure that this has been covered somewhere in the rule books but it seems to be sorely lacking in the equipment area of the PHB. What abilities are used for the different tools? I can't seem to find any rules on the subject. I am sure that thieves tools use d20 + dex mod+ prof bonus (if proficient), but what about artisan tools? do they use strength or dexterity? or a disguise kit, does it use charisma or dexterity or maybe even wisdom? none of the kits have any information regarding what abilities should be used and have no examples that I have seen.
Also what about mount equipment? is riding an animal a dexterity ability check? a handle animal skill?
Bit & Bridle (2 gp) - Kind of a silly question, but are these actually necessary? PHB says nothing about it other than a price and weight.
Saddlebags (4 gp) - Likewise, there's no information about what the saddlebags do. I'm assuming they just let the horse carry items up to its carrying capacity, minus my character's weight/equipment. what is the volume that a saddlebag can hold? is it the same as a backpack?
Saddles - The Military Saddle (20 gp) has a listed effect. The Pack (5 gp) & Riding (10 gp) Saddles do not. Is there any real difference or point to them?
The stat involved is up to the DM and the task at hand, but I agree that it's not clear.
The PHB gives examples on p178, including using INT to create a disguise. Once disguised, you'd use your Deception skill to be convincing in the role.
The area of skills and skill usage is something that I feel are a great area for WotC to expand upon in a future book. :)
With regards riding - "You also make a Wisdom (Animal Handling) check to control your mount when you attempt a risky maneuver." (also p178).
Without a saddle, technically you can't ride a mount, though the DM may allow it, with Animal Handling skills rolled at disadvantage.
Saddlebags? The carrying capacity varies, depending upon the mount.
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Generally speaking if there is not some type of saddle, it is generally assumed by DMs everywhere that some type of check would have to be involved. Possibly at disadvantage. I would say that typically a horse who isn't used for military reasons is going to only have a riding saddle. So your PC should buy the military saddle, however horses in the world would that PCs can purchase or rent would have a riding saddle, not a military one.
I'd assume that a Bit & Bridle is required to ride an animal as that is how you tell it which way to go and what you hold on to. For ease of gameplay I'd assume any horse bought would come standard with the Bit & Bridle, and the saddle.
I'd assume the saddle bags can carry small items, probably up to the capacity of the mount. Large + items probably out of the question for the bags themselves. But really the book should have explained all this rather than assume you know. Looks like a place where they were like, no one even looks at this page lets touch on it and then force you to look in an old edition to figure it out.
Since the bags weigh 8 pounds, that would imply they can hold a fix amount and if your mount can carry more, then you would need another bag, but I don't think the rules themselves give any guide here.
So none of my players thus far have engaged in many tool checks but I would just base it on the stat you think most governs the skill. Personally I would use the following:
str - mason's tools, smith's tools, carpenter's tools dex - cobbler's tools, glassblower's tools, jeweler's tools, leatherworker's tools, potter's tools, weaver's tools, woodcarver's tools
int - alchemist's supplies, tinker's tools, cartographer's tools, disguise kit wis - brewer's supplies, cook's utensils, forgery kit
cha - painter's supplies (maybe?)
Of course you could argue all day until you are blue in the face that smithing requires dex more than str or that a disguise kit uses wis or cha as much as int. I would say each situation would be unique. So I would ask the player what they are doing while they are using the specific tools. This will help you decide which stat to have them roll. You could also not have them add a stat bonus to the check at all. While the phb does state that it is an ability check, you could homebrew it and just have it be a d20 + prof and then adjust the DC to match this change.
I would agree there, and I suspect this is the reason tool uses in the Handbook are so vague, except for situations that ask for a specific roll.
Your list seems a good guideline for uncertain DMs to follow, though, so I'd keep it in mind.
...with some formatting editing, possibly. When I first saw it, I thought weaver and woodcarver were under Strength, before I realized they have warped from Dexterity.
I have to say I hope WotC never gives details on how to use Artisan Tools or any 5e crafting rules. I like it being open ended for the DM to decide. Like the Disguise Kit example in question. It uses whatever the player think is necessary. Are you trying to look exactly like someone? Are you just trying to fit a certain style of clothing? Are you trying to blend in to a natural environment? Each of these different scenarios can be addressed with 1 Tool Proficiency and a corresponding stat. 1 dice roll to settle a contested moment in a story. It's simple and effective.
Don't try to mechanize it too much. Listen to what the player is trying to achieve and pick the right Ability Statistic to allow them to attempt the contest. If they're trying to look like someone from memory, Intelligence. If they're trying to look natural, Wisdom. If they're trying to match a particular fashion of an area, Charisma.
Then get creative if the story allows it... Is it a disguise that requires two gnomes standing one each other's shoulders? Dex + Disguise Kit modifier. Do they have to stoop like a dwarf? Con + Disg. Kit. Does it require they wear a set of plate mail when they're only prof in light armor???? Str + Disg. Kit.
The tools and kits being so open allows for fast and fun play at the table. Quantify it if you want to, but I hope the writers of the game never do.
I'm perfectly fine with running things this way in my game, but I've been running D&D games for over 30 years, since back before there were skills, so I'm totally comfortable with just picking a relevant stat when someone wants to try something.
I don't think it's helpful for newer DMs or players though and what I think would be beneficial is some good examples on using tools/kits, which are currently missing. Stuff exactly like the examples you've given, I think would be really valuable for newer DMs.
The Unearthed Arcana downtime rules have expanded it slightly, though they are playtest rules and primarily focus on adding complications & story to downtime.
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If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
For Saddles:
Military Saddle: Advantage on any checks to remain mounted.
Saddle: Normal
No Saddle: Disadvantage on any checks to remain mounted. Also probably would give a chance for exhaustion each hour of riding.
For tools. I like having carpenters tools to use an awl to drill an alternate hole in a wooden chest so I can see what might be in there.
You're right, it doesn't explicitly state it - there really ought to be more text under saddle, but if a saddle does nothing, then there would be zero reason for it to exist!
Given that, "an exotic saddle is required for riding any aquatic or flying mount." it's reasonable to assume the intention is that a normal saddle is required to ride a normal mount.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
What kind of Ability checks do you roll for artisan's tools?
What is the character trying to do?
Attempting to make wooden furniture? Probably Dexterity (Woodworker's tools).
Attempting to make a wooden bridge to hold the weight of a wagon? Probably Intelligence (Woodworker's tools).
Attempting to dismantle a wooden chest so that it can be put together again later? Probably Wisdom (Woodworker's tools), maybe Intelligence (Woodworker's tools).
Attempting to break open a wooden chest while not caring about damage to the chest, but wanting to leave the contents undamaged? Probably Strength (Woodworker's tools).