I am currently a Diviner Wizard and my DM has recently discussed the possibility of multi-classing into Artificer.
Can someone please walk me through what happens when I take the first level of Artificer? How does the spell casting stack? (full or half?) Do I get any proficienc? Any advice on things to take, things to avoid?
Artificer is half rounded up so with a single level dip you don't lose any spell slot progression.
As far as proficiencies you get you get light/medium armor, shields, and thieves and tinkering tools.
The spell list themselves are largely redundant so of you are going to dip for more than the armor boost I'd look at at least 3 levels in artificer for a subclass.
though to be fair infusions kick in at level two, and their are a few useful ones a wizard might appreciate (repulsion shield and enhanced arcane focus come to mind)
I've looked over the spell list and think you gave some bad advice. It is true that the 2-5 level spell levels are redundant, but the first level ones are freaking great. About 1/4 of them are new to Wizard and two of them are fantastic.
Sanctuary
Faerie Fire
Cure Wounds
Purify Food and Drink
Faerie Fire, Cure Wounds, and Sanctuary is also well worth it as a defensive spell. Lets you heal yourself up and cast defensive or escape spells unhindered.
The infusions look good, but the level requirements make them less interesting. Effectively I am making the low level items and unless you are in a low magic campaign, I can buy those things. I am definitely in a high magic campaign and the infusions I can make are not worth it.
How many levels are you planning to dip for? You won't get much apart from the proficiencies unless you're planning to take at least 3 levels to reach the subclass feature. (And preferably 5 for combat stuff) Also be aware that as a Divination wizard the artificer will give you absolutely nothing that works with your Expert Divination feature, whereas abjurers would be more pleased to get their grubby little hands on our spell list.
If you decide to switch to artificer as your mian class at lvl 11 you can put Web in a spell-storing item. 8-10 free web spells per day is pretty nice.
If you decide to switch to artificer as your mian class at lvl 11 you can put Web in a spell-storing item. 8-10 free web spells per day is pretty nice.
... or you could not switch to artificer and instead get infinity free Web spells per day from the wizard Spell Mastery feature.
If you decide to switch to artificer as your mian class at lvl 11 you can put Web in a spell-storing item. 8-10 free web spells per day is pretty nice.
... or you could not switch to artificer and instead get infinity free Web spells per day from the wizard Spell Mastery feature.
At 18th level? Sure. That's just almost half the level progression later though. And you also must have it prepared and it takes 8 hours of active studying to change the spell instead of changing at will at the end of a long rest. I know which one I'd choose. :)
If you decide to switch to artificer as your mian class at lvl 11 you can put Web in a spell-storing item. 8-10 free web spells per day is pretty nice.
... or you could not switch to artificer and instead get infinity free Web spells per day from the wizard Spell Mastery feature.
At 18th level? Sure. That's just almost half the level progression later though. And you also must have it prepared and it takes 8 hours of active studying to change the spell instead of changing at will at the end of a long rest. I know which one I'd choose. :)
I agree with this
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
If you decide to switch to artificer as your mian class at lvl 11 you can put Web in a spell-storing item. 8-10 free web spells per day is pretty nice.
... or you could not switch to artificer and instead get infinity free Web spells per day from the wizard Spell Mastery feature.
At 18th level? Sure. That's just almost half the level progression later though. And you also must have it prepared and it takes 8 hours of active studying to change the spell instead of changing at will at the end of a long rest. I know which one I'd choose. :)
Yeah, but we're not talking about a theoretical character made from scratch, we're talking about a character who has already made an investment of levels into the wizard class, and is talking about taking a dip into artificer rather than changing the entire focus of their character.
If we're looking at a straight up Spell Mastery vs SSI fight where each class feature is as easy to obtain, then I'd definitely pick the former as you also get infinite uses of a 1st level spell, no restriction on the cast time, and a much, much, much better spell list to select from.
If you decide to switch to artificer as your mian class at lvl 11 you can put Web in a spell-storing item. 8-10 free web spells per day is pretty nice.
... or you could not switch to artificer and instead get infinity free Web spells per day from the wizard Spell Mastery feature.
At 18th level? Sure. That's just almost half the level progression later though. And you also must have it prepared and it takes 8 hours of active studying to change the spell instead of changing at will at the end of a long rest. I know which one I'd choose. :)
Yeah, but we're not talking about a theoretical character made from scratch, we're talking about a character who has already made an investment of levels into the wizard class, and is talking about taking a dip into artificer rather than changing the entire focus of their character.
If we're looking at a straight up Spell Mastery vs SSI fight where each class feature is as easy to obtain, then I'd definitely pick the former as you also get infinite uses of a 1st level spell, no restriction on the cast time, and a much, much, much better spell list to select from.
agreed but still........ I think the spell storing item is better because you can give it to the party. imagine the barbarian with the web spell. hilarious
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
If you decide to switch to artificer as your mian class at lvl 11 you can put Web in a spell-storing item. 8-10 free web spells per day is pretty nice.
... or you could not switch to artificer and instead get infinity free Web spells per day from the wizard Spell Mastery feature.
At 18th level? Sure. That's just almost half the level progression later though. And you also must have it prepared and it takes 8 hours of active studying to change the spell instead of changing at will at the end of a long rest. I know which one I'd choose. :)
Yeah, but we're not talking about a theoretical character made from scratch, we're talking about a character who has already made an investment of levels into the wizard class, and is talking about taking a dip into artificer rather than changing the entire focus of their character.
If we're looking at a straight up Spell Mastery vs SSI fight where each class feature is as easy to obtain, then I'd definitely pick the former as you also get infinite uses of a 1st level spell, no restriction on the cast time, and a much, much, much better spell list to select from.
agreed but still........ I think the spell storing item is better because you can give it to the party. imagine the barbarian with the web spell. hilarious
Exactly. And that's just ONE use of the SSI. :) Now imagine a Barbarian with a bunch of Thunderwaves. :P
If you decide to switch to artificer as your mian class at lvl 11 you can put Web in a spell-storing item. 8-10 free web spells per day is pretty nice.
... or you could not switch to artificer and instead get infinity free Web spells per day from the wizard Spell Mastery feature.
At 18th level? Sure. That's just almost half the level progression later though. And you also must have it prepared and it takes 8 hours of active studying to change the spell instead of changing at will at the end of a long rest. I know which one I'd choose. :)
Yeah, but we're not talking about a theoretical character made from scratch, we're talking about a character who has already made an investment of levels into the wizard class, and is talking about taking a dip into artificer rather than changing the entire focus of their character.
If we're looking at a straight up Spell Mastery vs SSI fight where each class feature is as easy to obtain, then I'd definitely pick the former as you also get infinite uses of a 1st level spell, no restriction on the cast time, and a much, much, much better spell list to select from.
agreed but still........ I think the spell storing item is better because you can give it to the party. imagine the barbarian with the web spell. hilarious
Exactly. And that's just ONE use of the SSI. :) Now imagine a Barbarian with a bunch of Thunderwaves. :P
or with ahem: misty step, now you see him now you dont ; blur, now you dont ; spider clamb, danger falling half orcs ; levitate, the town gets crushed by dragon dung ; invisibility, mistakes were made ; continual flame. no reason for this but come on. how funny is a barbarian with a flaming head
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Yeah, but we're not talking about a theoretical character made from scratch, we're talking about a character who has already made an investment of levels into the wizard class, and is talking about taking a dip into artificer rather than changing the entire focus of their character.
Which is why I said "if". :)
If we're looking at a straight up Spell Mastery vs SSI fight where each class feature is as easy to obtain, then I'd definitely pick the former as you also get infinite uses of a 1st level spell, no restriction on the cast time, and a much, much, much better spell list to select from.
Except that Spell Mastery is objectively not as easy to obtain. Is it, for the caster themself (since SM can't be used by others), better than an SSI? Yes. but it also requires seven more levels of progression. Level 18 abilities are supposed to be better than level 11 abilities.
I have never played Artificer before.
I am currently a Diviner Wizard and my DM has recently discussed the possibility of multi-classing into Artificer.
Can someone please walk me through what happens when I take the first level of Artificer? How does the spell casting stack? (full or half?) Do I get any proficienc? Any advice on things to take, things to avoid?
though to be fair infusions kick in at level two, and their are a few useful ones a wizard might appreciate (repulsion shield and enhanced arcane focus come to mind)
I've looked over the spell list and think you gave some bad advice. It is true that the 2-5 level spell levels are redundant, but the first level ones are freaking great. About 1/4 of them are new to Wizard and two of them are fantastic.
Faerie Fire, Cure Wounds, and Sanctuary is also well worth it as a defensive spell. Lets you heal yourself up and cast defensive or escape spells unhindered.
The infusions look good, but the level requirements make them less interesting. Effectively I am making the low level items and unless you are in a low magic campaign, I can buy those things. I am definitely in a high magic campaign and the infusions I can make are not worth it.
You get 2 new cantrips as well, the best one would be guidance which you don't have access to, it's a solid option for a wizard multiclass
I would say a battle smith diviner Gish would be pretty good. SAD plus steel defender and the buff spells.
if you are not into gishes, then maybe alchemist? it offers a tonne of support, utility and healing that wizards don't have.
the armourer UA would be great for adding some extra durability
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
I would say a battle smith diviner Gish would be pretty good. SAD plus steel defender and the buff spells.
if you are not into gishes, then maybe alchemist? it offers a tonne of support, utility and healing that wizards don't have.
the armourer UA would be great for adding some extra durability
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
I would say a battle smith diviner Gish would be pretty good. SAD plus steel defender and the buff spells.
if you are not into gishes, then maybe alchemist? it offers a tonne of support, utility and healing that wizards don't have.
the armourer UA would be great for adding some extra durability
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
I would say a battle smith diviner Gish would be pretty good. SAD plus steel defender and the buff spells.
if you are not into gishes, then maybe alchemist? it offers a tonne of support, utility and healing that wizards don't have.
the armourer UA would be great for adding some extra durability
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
How many levels are you planning to dip for? You won't get much apart from the proficiencies unless you're planning to take at least 3 levels to reach the subclass feature. (And preferably 5 for combat stuff) Also be aware that as a Divination wizard the artificer will give you absolutely nothing that works with your Expert Divination feature, whereas abjurers would be more pleased to get their grubby little hands on our spell list.
If you decide to switch to artificer as your mian class at lvl 11 you can put Web in a spell-storing item. 8-10 free web spells per day is pretty nice.
... or you could not switch to artificer and instead get infinity free Web spells per day from the wizard Spell Mastery feature.
At 18th level? Sure. That's just almost half the level progression later though. And you also must have it prepared and it takes 8 hours of active studying to change the spell instead of changing at will at the end of a long rest. I know which one I'd choose. :)
I agree with this
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Yeah, but we're not talking about a theoretical character made from scratch, we're talking about a character who has already made an investment of levels into the wizard class, and is talking about taking a dip into artificer rather than changing the entire focus of their character.
If we're looking at a straight up Spell Mastery vs SSI fight where each class feature is as easy to obtain, then I'd definitely pick the former as you also get infinite uses of a 1st level spell, no restriction on the cast time, and a much, much, much better spell list to select from.
agreed but still........ I think the spell storing item is better because you can give it to the party. imagine the barbarian with the web spell. hilarious
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Exactly. And that's just ONE use of the SSI. :) Now imagine a Barbarian with a bunch of Thunderwaves. :P
or with ahem: misty step, now you see him now you dont ; blur, now you dont ; spider clamb, danger falling half orcs ; levitate, the town gets crushed by dragon dung ; invisibility, mistakes were made ; continual flame. no reason for this but come on. how funny is a barbarian with a flaming head
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Which is why I said "if". :)
Except that Spell Mastery is objectively not as easy to obtain. Is it, for the caster themself (since SM can't be used by others), better than an SSI? Yes. but it also requires seven more levels of progression. Level 18 abilities are supposed to be better than level 11 abilities.
A level 3 Battlesmith alchemist and level 2 War Magic college wizard with shield and half plate has an AC of 23 before even casting any spells...
23ac on a 5th level caster is nothing to sneeze at.