The idea is to play a greatsword wielding half-orc barb totem warrior that can tank while still dishing out massive amounts of damage. Would the 3 level dip for greatweapon fighting style and the improved critical from champion be worth my time? Rerolling those 1s and 2s seems great, but I don't want to miss out on what the barb has to offer.
If the campaign isn't going to go the level 20, then I would recommend multiclassing. If it is, I would make sure that this is really what your character needs. If this were any other class, I wouldn't be saying this, but the barbarian capstone feature is so powerful that I feel multiclassing would be painful.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
Do bear in mind that this is a build where (despite the GWF fighting style) a greataxe outdamages a greatsword, once you have 2 Brutal Critical dice.
(Assuming 60% chance to hit => 50% normal hit, 10% crit. Greataxe will obviously fare better against high armour foes, while greatsword prefers cannon fodder enemies. Rage bonus damage, +X weapons, Strmod etc. affect both equally so ignored)
With the extra critical die from race,and 2 more from the Brutal Critical feature, the expected total for each weapon's damage dice for each attack is:
And all that is even when assuming the greatsword-friendly GWF style. You could take the +1 AC style instead without affecting the greataxe's damage too badly.
Personally I'd say the Barbarian capstone (and the last ASI) is better than the Fighter abilities but if you feel you can live without those, go ahead and take three levels of Fighter.
Yes, Extra Attack is the barbarian's friend and ally especially when you are using a heavy weapon. You should be sending it Christmas cards and help it move. The ASI will also become an important factor in how you level to make sure you CON and STR go as high as possible.
The champion 3rd level to get a fighting style, second wind, action surge, and Improved Critical can be very powerful additions to a barbarian. I have seen a half-orc barbarian in a game use a greataxe to do 3d12+STR on their critical hits which occurred 10% of the time. He said it saved the party's bacon once on a very high AC monster where they needed a 17 to hit, but was only 1 of against the entire party of 5 or 6.
I'm currently in a game with a player who's running a fighter/barb character. They started as Fighter2/Barb1, We're currently up to 7th level and they're Fighter 4/Barb 3- the loss of Extra Attack has really set them back compared to everyone else.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The one thing that makes the 3 level dip in Fighter so good is the Action Surge. I'm actually surprised and disappointed nobody even thought of this. Getting 4 attacks with advantage while swinging your Great Axe and getting Crits on 19's and 20's is going to end many encounters early. Not to mention you get the Action Surge back after just a Short Rest.
If you're going to go 3 Fighter, why not go 4 for the ASI? If you already have the Extra Attack then you're not missing anything and an ASI is always handy.
If you're going to go 3 Fighter, why not go 4 for the ASI? If you already have the Extra Attack then you're not missing anything and an ASI is always handy.
Because you will miss out on the third brutal critical at 17th level, and getting 4 extra damage dice on a 19 or 20 with advantage on two attacks is game breaking. But that's just my opinion
If you're going to go 3 Fighter, why not go 4 for the ASI? If you already have the Extra Attack then you're not missing anything and an ASI is always handy.
Because you will miss out on the third brutal critical at 17th level, and getting 4 extra damage dice on a 19 or 20 with advantage on two attacks is game breaking. But that's just my opinion
Fair point. A great ax with 3 Brutal Crit dice and GW Fighting Style WOULD be brutal lol!
If you're going to go 3 Fighter, why not go 4 for the ASI? If you already have the Extra Attack then you're not missing anything and an ASI is always handy.
Because you will miss out on the third brutal critical at 17th level, and getting 4 extra damage dice on a 19 or 20 with advantage on two attacks is game breaking. But that's just my opinion
Fair point. A great ax with 3 Brutal Crit dice and GW Fighting Style WOULD be brutal lol!
I'm actually helping a player build a Totem Bear Barbarian/Fighter with Polearm Master and Sentinel. She is going to wreck stuff up on my encounters. Time to find more ways to do psychic damage....LOL
The idea is to play a greatsword wielding half-orc barb totem warrior that can tank while still dishing out massive amounts of damage. Would the 3 level dip for greatweapon fighting style and the improved critical from champion be worth my time? Rerolling those 1s and 2s seems great, but I don't want to miss out on what the barb has to offer.
Keep your friends close, and enemies closer.
If you don't want the level 20 feature it's a great 3 level dip in my opinion.
My Homebrew | Background | Feats | Magic Items | Races | Spells | Subclass | Homebrewery
To see my more recent homebrew creations, please check out my content on Hombrewery.
Very true, 24 Str and Con and infinite rages is nice but I think I can live without it. Thanks for the advice
Keep your friends close, and enemies closer.
If the campaign isn't going to go the level 20, then I would recommend multiclassing. If it is, I would make sure that this is really what your character needs. If this were any other class, I wouldn't be saying this, but the barbarian capstone feature is so powerful that I feel multiclassing would be painful.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
The capstone is pretty powerful and would be amazing to have but I feel that taking those 3 levels is a good trade off. Thanks for the advice
Keep your friends close, and enemies closer.
Do bear in mind that this is a build where (despite the GWF fighting style) a greataxe outdamages a greatsword, once you have 2 Brutal Critical dice.
(Assuming 60% chance to hit => 50% normal hit, 10% crit. Greataxe will obviously fare better against high armour foes, while greatsword prefers cannon fodder enemies. Rage bonus damage, +X weapons, Strmod etc. affect both equally so ignored)
With GWF, E[1d6] = 1/6 * (3.5 + 3.5 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6) = 25/6 E[1d12] = 1/12 * (6.5 + 6.5 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + 10 + 11 + 12) = 22/3
With the extra critical die from race,and 2 more from the Brutal Critical feature, the expected total for each weapon's damage dice for each attack is:
When the build is complete, the difference is greater:
And all that is even when assuming the greatsword-friendly GWF style. You could take the +1 AC style instead without affecting the greataxe's damage too badly.
Personally I'd say the Barbarian capstone (and the last ASI) is better than the Fighter abilities but if you feel you can live without those, go ahead and take three levels of Fighter.
@doctormackerel I hadn't done the math, looks like greataxe will be better. I'll switch it out. Thanks for the advice
Keep your friends close, and enemies closer.
I would say it's worth it. Do get Barb 5 or Barb 6 before jumping out though.
How exactly are you planning your levels out?
Because I strenuously recommend against anything that delays getting Extra Attack.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Yes, Extra Attack is the barbarian's friend and ally especially when you are using a heavy weapon. You should be sending it Christmas cards and help it move. The ASI will also become an important factor in how you level to make sure you CON and STR go as high as possible.
The champion 3rd level to get a fighting style, second wind, action surge, and Improved Critical can be very powerful additions to a barbarian. I have seen a half-orc barbarian in a game use a greataxe to do 3d12+STR on their critical hits which occurred 10% of the time. He said it saved the party's bacon once on a very high AC monster where they needed a 17 to hit, but was only 1 of against the entire party of 5 or 6.
Proably going for Barb 6 for the second totem (undecided) and then hitting all 3 fighter before going back to the barb
Keep your friends close, and enemies closer.
Not a bad way to do it.
I'm currently in a game with a player who's running a fighter/barb character. They started as Fighter2/Barb1, We're currently up to 7th level and they're Fighter 4/Barb 3- the loss of Extra Attack has really set them back compared to everyone else.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The one thing that makes the 3 level dip in Fighter so good is the Action Surge. I'm actually surprised and disappointed nobody even thought of this. Getting 4 attacks with advantage while swinging your Great Axe and getting Crits on 19's and 20's is going to end many encounters early. Not to mention you get the Action Surge back after just a Short Rest.
If you want sugar coating, go buy a dessert....
If you're going to go 3 Fighter, why not go 4 for the ASI? If you already have the Extra Attack then you're not missing anything and an ASI is always handy.
Because you will miss out on the third brutal critical at 17th level, and getting 4 extra damage dice on a 19 or 20 with advantage on two attacks is game breaking. But that's just my opinion
If you want sugar coating, go buy a dessert....
Fair point. A great ax with 3 Brutal Crit dice and GW Fighting Style WOULD be brutal lol!
I'm actually helping a player build a Totem Bear Barbarian/Fighter with Polearm Master and Sentinel. She is going to wreck stuff up on my encounters. Time to find more ways to do psychic damage....LOL
If you want sugar coating, go buy a dessert....
I casually made the other way around: started with Fighter 3 (Champion) and then switched to Barbarian 5 (Bear Totem Warrior).
Here's the link: https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/75554249