I'm making a barbarian/rogue to make it hard to kill me. Barbarian Bear totem and Danger Sense with a Rogue's Uncanny Dodge and Evasion. If I beef up her Dex and Con, she can have a 20AC, add a shield, its 22. Add defensive Duelist, you get +6AC against a single melee attack on you. But that's at lvl 20. So is it worth it to beef up my AC for high level end game campaigns or will the enemy's hit ability, on average, always hit more than +22AC? If so, then it would be beneficial to always go for a DPS set over an AC setup if you're a front line fighter. Trying to determine if the damage mitigation of the Barbarian and Rogue abilities are enough to offset being hit and just go with all DPS feats.
A barbarian's whole deal is to soak up damage via their rage's reduction, and their d12 hitdie, while also dealing the hurt via rage and reckless attack. Remember, damage is mitigation! They can't hurt you if you kill them first! A barbarian that doesn't deal sufficient amounts of damage can easily be ignored. A barbarian shouldn't think "oh gee maybe I should shore up my weaknesses so I can survive longer," instead you have to think "I need to lean into my strengths, so I can pound that nerd caster into paste before they get their turn."
Get your GWM, get your PAM if applicable, max out your STR. Afterwards, you can either max out DEX if you want to improve your dex saves and initiative, or CON to get more HP to soak. Either option's valid. Although, I've played with (and played myself) barbarians who only have a 2 in their CON modifier for entire campaigns and do just fine, so I'd be inclined to say focus on DEX over CON.
A barbarian's whole deal is to soak up damage via their rage's reduction, and their d12 hitdie, while also dealing the hurt via rage and reckless attack. Remember, damage is mitigation! They can't hurt you if you kill them first! A barbarian that doesn't deal sufficient amounts of damage can easily be ignored. A barbarian shouldn't think "oh gee maybe I should shore up my weaknesses so I can survive longer," instead you have to think "I need to lean into my strengths, so I can pound that nerd caster into paste before they get their turn."
Get your GWM, get your PAM if applicable, max out your STR. Afterwards, you can either max out DEX if you want to improve your dex saves and initiative, or CON to get more HP to soak. Either option's valid. Although, I've played with (and played myself) barbarians who only have a 2 in their CON modifier for entire campaigns and do just fine, so I'd be inclined to say focus on DEX over CON.
This...
Barbarians, especially Bear Totem are meant to get hit and absorb them. I don't get why people always want to game the system and make something totally OP.
Going for maximized AC is (in my opinion) counter productive. Yes at low to mid levels if you max out your AC you can be hard to hit (unless your DM simply uses monsters that have a higher to hit bonus, but then you run into the problem that monsters with higher to hit bonuses do massively higher damage as well). At higher levels, it doesn't matter what your AC is, you're going to get hit by level appropriate monsters. Think of it this way... keep your AC reasonable and you face more orcs. Raise the AC too high, and you'll be facing giants. Which can you successfully take more hits from?
So instead of wasting resources maximizing AC, you'd be better off spending those resources on damage output and HP (if playing a barbarian). Bear Totem Barbarians have one job - take damage. They aren't meant to be the hardest to be hit, or the highest damage doer, they're meant to be a sponge (and a really good damage sponge).
Also maximizing AC is counter-productive for a barbarian, because if monsters are unable to hit you, they'll just go for your squishier companions when you're meant to take the hits.
I am not as DPR obsessed, but a couple of thoughts. 1. Defensive duelist and uncanny dodge both use your reaction. You only get one, so if you plan to go to Rogue 5 then do not get defensive duelist take the ASI instead. 2. A 22 AC will work well up to about the teens for level. You are going to get hit. 3. But being unhittable isn't all that useful. One of the resources a barbarian brings to the table is a big bag of hit points, so if you aren't using those HP you are ignoring one of your resources.
You are playing a rogue barbarian which isn't quite the same thing is a run of the mill barbarian. You can go str based and get your rage damage and sneak attack with finesse weapons, or you can go dex based (not get rage damage) but have improved survivability due to higher AC and damage reduction via rage.
Your approach seems to be dex based, and its not bad. You sacrificed 2d6 of sneak damage for +2 (shield) and +con AC. As long as your con bonus is higher than +2 for studded leather you should be doing well. As you level your sacrifice of 2d6 sneak will get less and less. You might even go for extra attack to help out the dpr numbers a bit.
I would recommend playing an elf and convincing your DM to get you a double bladed scimitar (and long term allowing you to upgrade it to plus 1). Get the revenant blade feat and you are cooking with a finesse weapon with a bonus action attack that does nice damage. No shield but you get a +1 to your AC from the feat as well. That would get you to a 21 AC.
Looking at 12 bear totem barbarian, 8 trickster rogue; 20 Dex, 14Str, 18Con, 288 hp; Sentinel Feat; Bugbear race; 4d6 sneak attack; 2 attacks/rd; expertise in Stealth and Athletics; The rogue sneak attack be used every turn with the barbarian's reckless attack. 21AC with shield and scimitar. You're right that Uncanny Dodge and Defensive Duelist both use the reaction turn, but if you can avoid taking damage completely by raising your AC with Def Duelist, that'll be the choice over just taking 1/4 damage with rage and Uncanny Dodge option. But then the trade off is that you cant use your reaction to keep them locked down with Sentinel. So I'd have to drop the shield and Grapple with one handed unarmed attack and then use my second attack with my Scimitar to hit with STR based attack, with advantage, to use my Rogue Sneak attack damage (1d6+2+4d6). Hence, the expertise in Athletics and advantage with Athletics STR checks due to raging.
Alternative build I looked at was 2 rogue for cunning action, expertise in stealth and athletics; 4 level bear barbarian with sentinel; 4 level battlemaster fighter for disarming battle maneuvers; and 10 level shadow monk for silence and shadow step; lock down mages with sentinel and silence; lock down melee with sentinel and disarming (DC 19), and raging. 244hp, 18AC, danger sense, evasion. stillness of mind to end charm effects; 50 movement;
Dont have all the new books, so just using the basics from the PHB
This has already been mentioned in the thread but beware that the damage bonus for Rage and, more importantly, advantage from Reckless Attacks only apply to Strength based attacks. So if you are using Dexterity for your attack and damage rolls you cannot use Reckless Attacks or add your Rage damage.
You can use Strength for your attacks and damage and still use Sneak Attack though because Sneak Attack only requires the weapon has the Finesse property. Sneak Attack doesn't care which stat you use to make the attack.
I just felt this needed to be reiterated since your build has a 20 dex, 18 or 19 con, and you didn't mention your strength.
Well she'd utilize a Scimitar (Finesse) weapon and shield, so can use dex or str; Str is a 14; I just figure try to be the person that locks down the enemies with sentinel, trip attacks, disarming, etc. and let the team take them out. Since everyone works as a team in the game and its rare to do one offs.
I'm making a barbarian/rogue to make it hard to kill me. Barbarian Bear totem and Danger Sense with a Rogue's Uncanny Dodge and Evasion. If I beef up her Dex and Con, she can have a 20AC, add a shield, its 22. Add defensive Duelist, you get +6AC against a single melee attack on you. But that's at lvl 20. So is it worth it to beef up my AC for high level end game campaigns or will the enemy's hit ability, on average, always hit more than +22AC? If so, then it would be beneficial to always go for a DPS set over an AC setup if you're a front line fighter. Trying to determine if the damage mitigation of the Barbarian and Rogue abilities are enough to offset being hit and just go with all DPS feats.
Heh... *uses hold person* nothin' personnel, kid.
But in all seriousness, damage.
A barbarian's whole deal is to soak up damage via their rage's reduction, and their d12 hitdie, while also dealing the hurt via rage and reckless attack. Remember, damage is mitigation! They can't hurt you if you kill them first! A barbarian that doesn't deal sufficient amounts of damage can easily be ignored. A barbarian shouldn't think "oh gee maybe I should shore up my weaknesses so I can survive longer," instead you have to think "I need to lean into my strengths, so I can pound that nerd caster into paste before they get their turn."
Get your GWM, get your PAM if applicable, max out your STR. Afterwards, you can either max out DEX if you want to improve your dex saves and initiative, or CON to get more HP to soak. Either option's valid. Although, I've played with (and played myself) barbarians who only have a 2 in their CON modifier for entire campaigns and do just fine, so I'd be inclined to say focus on DEX over CON.
This...
Barbarians, especially Bear Totem are meant to get hit and absorb them. I don't get why people always want to game the system and make something totally OP.
Going for maximized AC is (in my opinion) counter productive. Yes at low to mid levels if you max out your AC you can be hard to hit (unless your DM simply uses monsters that have a higher to hit bonus, but then you run into the problem that monsters with higher to hit bonuses do massively higher damage as well). At higher levels, it doesn't matter what your AC is, you're going to get hit by level appropriate monsters. Think of it this way... keep your AC reasonable and you face more orcs. Raise the AC too high, and you'll be facing giants. Which can you successfully take more hits from?
So instead of wasting resources maximizing AC, you'd be better off spending those resources on damage output and HP (if playing a barbarian). Bear Totem Barbarians have one job - take damage. They aren't meant to be the hardest to be hit, or the highest damage doer, they're meant to be a sponge (and a really good damage sponge).
Playing D&D since 1982
Damage. For one it makes combat quicker.
Also maximizing AC is counter-productive for a barbarian, because if monsters are unable to hit you, they'll just go for your squishier companions when you're meant to take the hits.
I am not as DPR obsessed, but a couple of thoughts.
1. Defensive duelist and uncanny dodge both use your reaction. You only get one, so if you plan to go to Rogue 5 then do not get defensive duelist take the ASI instead.
2. A 22 AC will work well up to about the teens for level. You are going to get hit.
3. But being unhittable isn't all that useful. One of the resources a barbarian brings to the table is a big bag of hit points, so if you aren't using those HP you are ignoring one of your resources.
You are playing a rogue barbarian which isn't quite the same thing is a run of the mill barbarian. You can go str based and get your rage damage and sneak attack with finesse weapons, or you can go dex based (not get rage damage) but have improved survivability due to higher AC and damage reduction via rage.
Your approach seems to be dex based, and its not bad. You sacrificed 2d6 of sneak damage for +2 (shield) and +con AC. As long as your con bonus is higher than +2 for studded leather you should be doing well. As you level your sacrifice of 2d6 sneak will get less and less. You might even go for extra attack to help out the dpr numbers a bit.
I would recommend playing an elf and convincing your DM to get you a double bladed scimitar (and long term allowing you to upgrade it to plus 1). Get the revenant blade feat and you are cooking with a finesse weapon with a bonus action attack that does nice damage. No shield but you get a +1 to your AC from the feat as well. That would get you to a 21 AC.
What Rogue subclass are you going with?
Looking at 12 bear totem barbarian, 8 trickster rogue; 20 Dex, 14Str, 18Con, 288 hp; Sentinel Feat; Bugbear race; 4d6 sneak attack; 2 attacks/rd; expertise in Stealth and Athletics; The rogue sneak attack be used every turn with the barbarian's reckless attack. 21AC with shield and scimitar. You're right that Uncanny Dodge and Defensive Duelist both use the reaction turn, but if you can avoid taking damage completely by raising your AC with Def Duelist, that'll be the choice over just taking 1/4 damage with rage and Uncanny Dodge option. But then the trade off is that you cant use your reaction to keep them locked down with Sentinel. So I'd have to drop the shield and Grapple with one handed unarmed attack and then use my second attack with my Scimitar to hit with STR based attack, with advantage, to use my Rogue Sneak attack damage (1d6+2+4d6). Hence, the expertise in Athletics and advantage with Athletics STR checks due to raging.
Alternative build I looked at was 2 rogue for cunning action, expertise in stealth and athletics; 4 level bear barbarian with sentinel; 4 level battlemaster fighter for disarming battle maneuvers; and 10 level shadow monk for silence and shadow step; lock down mages with sentinel and silence; lock down melee with sentinel and disarming (DC 19), and raging. 244hp, 18AC, danger sense, evasion. stillness of mind to end charm effects; 50 movement;
Dont have all the new books, so just using the basics from the PHB
This has already been mentioned in the thread but beware that the damage bonus for Rage and, more importantly, advantage from Reckless Attacks only apply to Strength based attacks. So if you are using Dexterity for your attack and damage rolls you cannot use Reckless Attacks or add your Rage damage.
You can use Strength for your attacks and damage and still use Sneak Attack though because Sneak Attack only requires the weapon has the Finesse property. Sneak Attack doesn't care which stat you use to make the attack.
I just felt this needed to be reiterated since your build has a 20 dex, 18 or 19 con, and you didn't mention your strength.
Well she'd utilize a Scimitar (Finesse) weapon and shield, so can use dex or str; Str is a 14; I just figure try to be the person that locks down the enemies with sentinel, trip attacks, disarming, etc. and let the team take them out. Since everyone works as a team in the game and its rare to do one offs.
Big bonk so damage
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