Alright, I managed to ask two stupid questions yesterday because I hadn't dug out my PHB since moving but, even with it in hand now, let's see if I can keep this going!...Heh
So I'm looking at building an Eloquence Bard, and as I'm going through the abilities, I came across something that confused me in the Magic Secrets ability.
By 10th level, you have plundered magical knowledge from a wide spectrum of disciplines. Choose two spells from any classes, including this one. A spell you choose must be of a level you can cast, as shown on the Bard table, or a cantrip.
The ability allows you to select two spells from other class's spell lists to add to the entire list of Bard Spells you can select from to make your list of known spells, right? Soooooo, why would I use this ability to select spells from the Bard class, where the ability originates from, when it wouldn't give me anything new? It just seems oddly worded.
Is this only in there for Lore Bards who get to add to their total number of spells? Or am I missing something?
Sometimes people just want more Bard spells, it is 2 more spells wherever they come from.
But if all the spells on the Bard list can be found on other lists then... I dunno?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
Sometimes people just want more Bard spells, it is 2 more spells wherever they come from.
But if all the spells on the Bard list can be found on other lists then... I dunno?
See, that's what's confusing me. As a Bard, you can already select any spells from the Bard Spell List to add to your Known Spells. Unless you're a Lore Bard, the two (eventually six) that you can select go against the count listed on the Bard Table. So for regular Bards...
The chosen spells count as bard spells for you and are included in the number in the Spells Known column of the Bard table.
But for Lore Bards with the "Additional Magical Secret ability...
The chosen spells count as bard spells for you but don’t count against the number of bard spells you know.
So for them, at least, you can create a larger quantity list of spells that you can cast each day. I dunno. I'm probably harping on this too much. I'm just going to say that it was poorly worded. For any Bard other than Lore, picking Bard spells is a waste of an ability. Still, if someone knows something I'm missing, I would love to know it too!
Sometimes people just want more Bard spells, it is 2 more spells wherever they come from.
But if all the spells on the Bard list can be found on other lists then... I dunno?
See, that's what's confusing me. As a Bard, you can already select any spells from the Bard Spell List to add to your Known Spells. Unless you're a Lore Bard, the two (eventually six) that you can select go against the count listed on the Bard Table. So for regular Bards...
The chosen spells count as bard spells for you and are included in the number in the Spells Known column of the Bard table.
But for Lore Bards with the "Additional Magical Secret ability...
The chosen spells count as bard spells for you but don’t count against the number of bard spells you know.
So for them, at least, you can create a larger quantity list of spells that you can cast each day. I dunno. I'm probably harping on this too much. I'm just going to say that it was poorly worded. For any Bard other than Lore, picking Bard spells is a waste of an ability. Still, if someone knows something I'm missing, I would love to know it too!
It has nothing to do with being Lore or not, so I'm not sure where your disconnect is. Maybe you're having trouble with the table presenting the secrets as part of your spells known? That's just a rules mistake, FYI, since secrets can be spent on cantrips, which are listed in that table under a different column - including them in spells known rather than cantrips known makes no sense, and they should not have been included in either.
Let's consider a level 20 bard:
They know 16 leveled Bard spells, 4 Bard cantrips, and 6 spells of any class, which can be leveled or cantrips - their secrets. Lore bards get additional secrets, so they know an additional 2 spells of any class, which can be cantrips. As you can see, being a Lore bard simply made the number go up - there's no other mechanical difference. You can use the ability to pick up additional Bard spells or additional non-Bard spells, and either way, they count as Bard spells once you pick them up.
Alright, I managed to ask two stupid questions yesterday because I hadn't dug out my PHB since moving but, even with it in hand now, let's see if I can keep this going!...Heh
So I'm looking at building an Eloquence Bard, and as I'm going through the abilities, I came across something that confused me in the Magic Secrets ability.
The ability allows you to select two spells from other class's spell lists to add to the entire list of Bard Spells you can select from to make your list of known spells, right? Soooooo, why would I use this ability to select spells from the Bard class, where the ability originates from, when it wouldn't give me anything new? It just seems oddly worded.
Is this only in there for Lore Bards who get to add to their total number of spells? Or am I missing something?
If we live through this, remind me to kill you!
Sometimes people just want more Bard spells, it is 2 more spells wherever they come from.
But if all the spells on the Bard list can be found on other lists then... I dunno?
See, that's what's confusing me. As a Bard, you can already select any spells from the Bard Spell List to add to your Known Spells. Unless you're a Lore Bard, the two (eventually six) that you can select go against the count listed on the Bard Table. So for regular Bards...
But for Lore Bards with the "Additional Magical Secret ability...
So for them, at least, you can create a larger quantity list of spells that you can cast each day. I dunno. I'm probably harping on this too much. I'm just going to say that it was poorly worded. For any Bard other than Lore, picking Bard spells is a waste of an ability. Still, if someone knows something I'm missing, I would love to know it too!
If we live through this, remind me to kill you!
It has nothing to do with being Lore or not, so I'm not sure where your disconnect is. Maybe you're having trouble with the table presenting the secrets as part of your spells known? That's just a rules mistake, FYI, since secrets can be spent on cantrips, which are listed in that table under a different column - including them in spells known rather than cantrips known makes no sense, and they should not have been included in either.
Let's consider a level 20 bard:
They know 16 leveled Bard spells, 4 Bard cantrips, and 6 spells of any class, which can be leveled or cantrips - their secrets. Lore bards get additional secrets, so they know an additional 2 spells of any class, which can be cantrips. As you can see, being a Lore bard simply made the number go up - there's no other mechanical difference. You can use the ability to pick up additional Bard spells or additional non-Bard spells, and either way, they count as Bard spells once you pick them up.
So, Cantrips. Gotcha.
I was getting WAY too caught up on 1st Level and above spells. Thanks!
If we live through this, remind me to kill you!