I have just made, wrote a backstory and committed to an eloquence bard for a descent into Avernus campaign.
Everyone else is ready to go as well and then.........I started reading forums 😟
The (not overwhelming but alot) consensus was that Bard spells are.....less efficient I'm this campaign.
What I am wondering is, does the eloquence bard fare a bit better in this due to unsettling words, and also, are there some spell picks this community can think of that may shine a bit more in Avernus?
I was reading on 2 other forums saying that a large quantity of Bard spells are "save or suck" and that the majority of enemies in the campaign have magic resistance. The forumers go on to state that they felt useless as all their spells were failing due to the resistance.
Now, I am aware these are a select few people on some forums, that's why I thought I'd come here. For a third opinion. And I hope you didn't think I was whining, more just looking for some insight on good spell choices.
I feel with Max charisma and unsettling words, even magic resistance may hopefully fail more often than not.
Thanks for the clarification. To be perfectly honest, it seems silly to specifically call out bards for the magic resistance issue - any other casting class has the same difficulty. Magic resistance definitely is a pain, but it's not a trump card. Here are some ideas:
Bards have a wide range of spells that buff allies rather than debuffing enemies. Focusing on these spells renders magic resistance completely irrelevant.
Not everything needs to be solved with magic. You're a bard, and even more than that, you're an eloquence bard. Social skills are right in your wheelhouse; use them. Devils on their home plane are far more likely to bargain than to openly attack, as they can be killed permanently there. With such good persuasion and deception checks, you can likely make some pretty sweet deals in Avernus if you're smart about it.
As you mentioned, unsettling words will be a useful asset. Use it to set yourself or your party members up for more potent effects.
As for spell ideas, here are a few that come to mind:
Spells that don't require a saving throw.
Bane - set it up with unsettling words and then you have a similar effect for a whole minute.
Spells that effect multiple targets when cast at their lowest level - the more targets, the greater chance that at least one of them will fail the saving throw.
That's some awesome advice, thank you. Yeah I just need to shift into support mode and maybe this will get the whole group rping a bit more as well if we try and negotiate rather than murder death kill.
Glad I could help! Never forget the core strengths of a class - in the case of the bard, social skills and party support. They can be built to do other things, but that's where they really excel.
Another thing to consider is the use of illusions. A well placed illusion can fool multiple creatures and disbelieving one requires an INT check, which most of the lower CR devils are not very good at. As long as the illusion is not cast directly on the devil, magic resistance usually will not apply.
I just hit Level 3 and started playing the EB for the first time. Unsettling Words is amazing. It makes 'save or suck' spells worth taking, which is fortunate, because so many of the Bard spells are of that type. It also scales fairly well, as your Inspiration Dice get bigger. As enemy saves get better, so does your Unsettling Words and your DC. Just know that later on, legendary resistances will laugh at your Unsettling Words.
Silver Tongue is also amazing out of combat. If you put 16 into Charisma (and it's Bard, that's kind of the default), and you put proficiency + expertise into Persuasion and Deception: you literally cannot roll less than 15 at level 3. At level 5 you can't roll less than 20! It's important that your DM knows that you can't convince anyone to do literally anything. The old adage, you can't convince a king to give you his kingdom, no matter what you roll.
That's great! Just hit level 2 Monday and was humming and hawing over Eloquence or lore, but I think I'll stick with my original gut feeling and try eloquence. The DM let me take "legalese" as a language. Seeing as we're going to hell. I've conceptualized this Bard as a lawyer rather than a musician.
Thanks for the clarification. To be perfectly honest, it seems silly to specifically call out bards for the magic resistance issue - any other casting class has the same difficulty. Magic resistance definitely is a pain, but it's not a trump card. Here are some ideas:
Bards have a wide range of spells that buff allies rather than debuffing enemies. Focusing on these spells renders magic resistance completely irrelevant.
Not everything needs to be solved with magic. You're a bard, and even more than that, you're an eloquence bard. Social skills are right in your wheelhouse; use them. Devils on their home plane are far more likely to bargain than to openly attack, as they can be killed permanently there. With such good persuasion and deception checks, you can likely make some pretty sweet deals in Avernus if you're smart about it.
As you mentioned, unsettling words will be a useful asset. Use it to set yourself or your party members up for more potent effects.
As for spell ideas, here are a few that come to mind:
Spells that don't require a saving throw.
Bane - set it up with unsettling words and then you have a similar effect for a whole minute.
Spells that effect multiple targets when cast at their lowest level - the more targets, the greater chance that at least one of them will fail the saving throw.
If magic resistance is so prevalent that you need to shy away from save spells, then IMO you may want to play something else altogether. Unsettling Words is the most potent combat ability for all Bards. It would be a shame for it to go to waste.
Still, as you said you may get lots of miles out Silver Tongue. Just something to think about.
Personally I try to affect the battle as much as possible without a saving throw anyway; that's just how I tend to play, but I know that not everyone plays the same way. If someone wants to take save spells knowing that magic resistance will be prevalent, that's no issue. It's just that more discernment is needed regarding which save spells to cast and when, as well as when to use unsettling words to set them up.
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Hi all,
I have just made, wrote a backstory and committed to an eloquence bard for a descent into Avernus campaign.
Everyone else is ready to go as well and then.........I started reading forums 😟
The (not overwhelming but alot) consensus was that Bard spells are.....less efficient I'm this campaign.
What I am wondering is, does the eloquence bard fare a bit better in this due to unsettling words, and also, are there some spell picks this community can think of that may shine a bit more in Avernus?
Thoughts?
Having run DiA before, I'm not sure where the idea that bard spells are less efficient comes from. Could you elaborate a bit?
I was reading on 2 other forums saying that a large quantity of Bard spells are "save or suck" and that the majority of enemies in the campaign have magic resistance. The forumers go on to state that they felt useless as all their spells were failing due to the resistance.
Now, I am aware these are a select few people on some forums, that's why I thought I'd come here. For a third opinion. And I hope you didn't think I was whining, more just looking for some insight on good spell choices.
I feel with Max charisma and unsettling words, even magic resistance may hopefully fail more often than not.
Perhaps I should stop second guessing myself.
Thanks for the clarification. To be perfectly honest, it seems silly to specifically call out bards for the magic resistance issue - any other casting class has the same difficulty. Magic resistance definitely is a pain, but it's not a trump card. Here are some ideas:
As for spell ideas, here are a few that come to mind:
That's some awesome advice, thank you. Yeah I just need to shift into support mode and maybe this will get the whole group rping a bit more as well if we try and negotiate rather than murder death kill.
Glad I could help! Never forget the core strengths of a class - in the case of the bard, social skills and party support. They can be built to do other things, but that's where they really excel.
Another thing to consider is the use of illusions. A well placed illusion can fool multiple creatures and disbelieving one requires an INT check, which most of the lower CR devils are not very good at. As long as the illusion is not cast directly on the devil, magic resistance usually will not apply.
I just hit Level 3 and started playing the EB for the first time. Unsettling Words is amazing. It makes 'save or suck' spells worth taking, which is fortunate, because so many of the Bard spells are of that type. It also scales fairly well, as your Inspiration Dice get bigger. As enemy saves get better, so does your Unsettling Words and your DC. Just know that later on, legendary resistances will laugh at your Unsettling Words.
Silver Tongue is also amazing out of combat. If you put 16 into Charisma (and it's Bard, that's kind of the default), and you put proficiency + expertise into Persuasion and Deception: you literally cannot roll less than 15 at level 3. At level 5 you can't roll less than 20! It's important that your DM knows that you can't convince anyone to do literally anything. The old adage, you can't convince a king to give you his kingdom, no matter what you roll.
That's great! Just hit level 2 Monday and was humming and hawing over Eloquence or lore, but I think I'll stick with my original gut feeling and try eloquence. The DM let me take "legalese" as a language. Seeing as we're going to hell. I've conceptualized this Bard as a lawyer rather than a musician.
If magic resistance is so prevalent that you need to shy away from save spells, then IMO you may want to play something else altogether. Unsettling Words is the most potent combat ability for all Bards. It would be a shame for it to go to waste.
Still, as you said you may get lots of miles out Silver Tongue. Just something to think about.
Personally I try to affect the battle as much as possible without a saving throw anyway; that's just how I tend to play, but I know that not everyone plays the same way. If someone wants to take save spells knowing that magic resistance will be prevalent, that's no issue. It's just that more discernment is needed regarding which save spells to cast and when, as well as when to use unsettling words to set them up.