Valor bard is Swords bard without the flourishes and strictly better due to shield proficiency, cantrips instead of attack, combat inspiration and battle magic. Funny that if you use 2024 base bard with swords bard - only thing you would be better at is being a tank due to defensive flourish stacking with shield spell.
New Valor Bards vs Sword Bards comes down to are your Inspiration for you or for others.
What I mean is the New Valor Bards can not give Inspiration to one's self. It is still for others only.
Mind you I do not have the book yet so I am going of what I have seen online.
inspire others through words, music, or dance.
A creature that has a Bardic Inspiration die from you can use it for one of the following effects:
These 2 parts from the play test show you are not giving the Defence or Offence to your self since you can not Inspire your self with this. The Swords is using it on their own attacks. I just hope when Swords get a update they also get the cast a cantrip option that I think all gish builds should have.
I think the dance bard is more competition to the swords bard as an alternative to the valor bard.
At 3rd level the swords bard get medium armor, scimitar, a fighting style feat, and flourishes. The dance bard gets dazzling footwork for AC and extra unarmed attacks.
At 6th level the swords bard gets extra attack. The dance bard gets inspiring movement and tandem footwork. Bonus initiative and repositioning are pretty nice when the dance bard already has those extra attacks from dazzling footwork. The swords bard did get an added benefit in the ability to fuel flourishes by using spell slots to recover bardic inspiration, though.
When both were put forth as mobility I think inspiring movement is better than the swords bard 10' bonus movement using flourishes.
At 14th level the swords bard gets low end flourishes that don't expend bardic inspiration. The dance bard gets evasion and the ability to share that evasion with others who are close to them.
I don't think the dance bard makes the swords bard obsolete by any means, but if mobility was a consideration in choosing the college I'd probably go dance bard. The extra attack feature is still good compared to a limited number (even if that limit is a lot) of extra unarmed attacks.
The valor bard has a shield, extra attack, can also use a weapon as a focus, and can mix cantrips in with the extra attacks. The swords bard still has a mobility advantage with flourishes and a fighting style. I prefer how the valor bard can mix spells and combat, and is focused on inspiring others, but I can see see the swords bard having their place.
I'll add that I like the changes to the glamour bard too.
So I've been looking at the College of Swords bard and comparing to 2024 College of Valor in preparation for a campaign I'm starting up soon. Glad I found this thread.
To me, the College of Swords is still pretty good, but needs a few changes.
Rename the college to "College of Blades" (which funny enough is closer to the old Blade kit)
3rd level - Allow the following Fighting Styles: Dueling, Two-Weapon Fighting, Thown Weapon Fighting (possibly even Blind Fighting)
Flourishes are all pretty good. Don't think there is need to change
6th level extra attack - still great no changes needed
14th Master's Flourish - This one is not that great. With how many Bardic Inspiration Dice you get and how you can get them back quickly I don't know why you would want to not spend them to get only a d6. Not sure what to replace with though, I'm thinking something like on of the following:
Reroll the die if it is a 1 or below a certain number like CHA mod.
Allow to spend two Bardic Inspiration Dice for the extra damage.
So I've been looking at the College of Swords bard and comparing to 2024 College of Valor in preparation for a campaign I'm starting up soon. Glad I found this thread.
To me, the College of Swords is still pretty good, but needs a few changes.
Rename the college to "College of Blades" (which funny enough is closer to the old Blade kit)
3rd level - Allow the following Fighting Styles: Dueling, Two-Weapon Fighting, Thown Weapon Fighting (possibly even Blind Fighting)
Flourishes are all pretty good. Don't think there is need to change
6th level extra attack - still great no changes needed
14th Master's Flourish - This one is not that great. With how many Bardic Inspiration Dice you get and how you can get them back quickly I don't know why you would want to not spend them to get only a d6. Not sure what to replace with though, I'm thinking something like on of the following:
Reroll the die if it is a 1 or below a certain number like CHA mod.
Allow to spend two Bardic Inspiration Dice for the extra damage.
I agree on changing the name of the college to Blades.
New College of Blades should change the Level 14 ability so that your ability to unlimited Flourish uses 2d4 instead of 1d6. By level 14 PCs are facing stuff like mummies, giants, slaads, and demons/devils/yugoloths on the regular. College of Blades needs that bit of extra power since they will be casting spells less than the typical Bard.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So, wondering if people think the new Valor Bard will overshadow the sword bard or not
Valor bard is Swords bard without the flourishes and strictly better due to shield proficiency, cantrips instead of attack, combat inspiration and battle magic. Funny that if you use 2024 base bard with swords bard - only thing you would be better at is being a tank due to defensive flourish stacking with shield spell.
I noticed, I think the use of sword as a foci is the only real advantage on sword...
Cantrip with extra attack probably makes it the better subclass.
New Valor Bards vs Sword Bards comes down to are your Inspiration for you or for others.
What I mean is the New Valor Bards can not give Inspiration to one's self. It is still for others only.
Mind you I do not have the book yet so I am going of what I have seen online.
inspire others through words, music, or dance.
A creature that has a Bardic Inspiration die from you can use it for one of the following effects:
These 2 parts from the play test show you are not giving the Defence or Offence to your self since you can not Inspire your self with this. The Swords is using it on their own attacks. I just hope when Swords get a update they also get the cast a cantrip option that I think all gish builds should have.
I spell Goodly.
I think the dance bard is more competition to the swords bard as an alternative to the valor bard.
At 3rd level the swords bard get medium armor, scimitar, a fighting style feat, and flourishes. The dance bard gets dazzling footwork for AC and extra unarmed attacks.
At 6th level the swords bard gets extra attack. The dance bard gets inspiring movement and tandem footwork. Bonus initiative and repositioning are pretty nice when the dance bard already has those extra attacks from dazzling footwork. The swords bard did get an added benefit in the ability to fuel flourishes by using spell slots to recover bardic inspiration, though.
When both were put forth as mobility I think inspiring movement is better than the swords bard 10' bonus movement using flourishes.
At 14th level the swords bard gets low end flourishes that don't expend bardic inspiration. The dance bard gets evasion and the ability to share that evasion with others who are close to them.
I don't think the dance bard makes the swords bard obsolete by any means, but if mobility was a consideration in choosing the college I'd probably go dance bard. The extra attack feature is still good compared to a limited number (even if that limit is a lot) of extra unarmed attacks.
The valor bard has a shield, extra attack, can also use a weapon as a focus, and can mix cantrips in with the extra attacks. The swords bard still has a mobility advantage with flourishes and a fighting style. I prefer how the valor bard can mix spells and combat, and is focused on inspiring others, but I can see see the swords bard having their place.
I'll add that I like the changes to the glamour bard too.
So I've been looking at the College of Swords bard and comparing to 2024 College of Valor in preparation for a campaign I'm starting up soon. Glad I found this thread.
To me, the College of Swords is still pretty good, but needs a few changes.
I agree on changing the name of the college to Blades.
New College of Blades should change the Level 14 ability so that your ability to unlimited Flourish uses 2d4 instead of 1d6. By level 14 PCs are facing stuff like mummies, giants, slaads, and demons/devils/yugoloths on the regular. College of Blades needs that bit of extra power since they will be casting spells less than the typical Bard.