I'm currently playing ToA and my character is going to be going through a change of class based on story reasons. obviously I've decided on Bard hence why im posting here. I am pretty firm on Swords subclass as I think they are really cool but I've never played a Bard so who knows. so far I've got most things down for the change except the magical secrets spells because their are SO many options I'm having some choice paralysis.
So im going full class swords bard using dueling. I'm thinking of picking up some of the support slack that the cleric is currently carrying but I also want to be effective with damage. anyone got any advice for spells to pick up? Currently on the list I've got and I can only pick 2: Counterspell - always useful Haste - giving the gunslinger or bladelock a extra attack would be an increase of almost 30 damage a turn. Teleportation Circle - we currently lack any form of long range teleportation but we're currently in the tomb so it may not be as useful until we leave. Slow - such a devastating debuff Fireball - AoE damage we could use more of Spirit Guardians - AoE damage in melee but con score is only +2 at the moment and radiant damage would be useful Spiritual Weapon - for a bonus action damage attack since I'll be dueling rather then dual wielding Find greater steed - Flying mount sounds fun Telekinesis - my favourite spell on my GOO warlock, so useful in and out of combat Arcane hand - looks like a better Telekinesis?
We're level 10 and in the party we have: Bladelock/Fighter that is a melee monster Gunslinger/Rogue pure damage Tempest Cleric, tank that also casts a bunch of damaging spells and heals sometimes.
Teleportation circle isn't super-practical unless you know the location of an existing circle to be your target. It also takes a full minute to cast, so only useful out of combat and if you know where you're going. So you can BAMF home, but it won't help you on the way *to* wherever you're going.
Full disclosure here--I know pretty much nothing about the setting. So this post will come from a general "what's good for your Bard overall" viewpoint.
It seems your team has damage down pat. Which means you'd probably do better to focus heavily on support & control. That makes it less-than-ideal that you're going with the Swords subclass, as it focuses on individual combat, but it is what it is.
It'd be nice to know what Bard spells you're going with. If you're already going to be carrying a ton of support/control spells with Concentration, it might rule out needing to choose that for your Magical Secrets spell. I'll just presume you already have a good selection of those (Faerie Fire, Hypnotic Pattern, etc.,) and a few damaging and utility spells as well. In which case...
Telekinesis: has so many uses, from locking down an enemy, to moving barriers out of the way, and can even function as a limited Fly in a pinch. True, it doesn't do direct damage (unless you count dropping creatures from 30-60 feet up,) but IMO it's a better choice than Arcane Hand since it allows a wider variety of interactions for a longer duration.
Wall of Force/Stone: when it comes to battlefield control, these are pretty potent. They're slightly different, but each has their advantages, and either can change the tide of battle as desired.
Steel Wind Strike: not ideal, as it's just massive damage... but if you're going with a Swords bard anyway, it'll assist your movement while doing the massive damage.
Counterspell: this gets an honorable mention, as it's powerful up through level 20; but without knowing how often you face spellcasters, I can't outright recommend it.
These are spells I'd NOT recommend:
Haste/Slow: while excellent spells, they're level 3 and don't scale up. If you're going to pick Magical Secrets spells, you should probably go for the strongest spells you can
Spirit Guardians: a 15-foot damaging aura is probably better suited for a tank--or at least a front-line fighter--than a bard trying to keep his distance and concentrate
Spiritual Weapon: it's pretty mediocre extra damage, and since your cleric only has so much healing, you're probably better off keeping your bonus actions free for Bardic Inspiration and Healing Word
Teleportation Circle: bards can pick this up normally; don't waste a Magical Secrets slot on it!
Fireball: bards have access to Synaptic Static, arguably better than Fireball in every way.
Find Greater Steed: a great spell, and one I'd normally consider, but with three strong damage-dealers already on the team, they probably need support more than they need for you to have a personal flying mount. Just sayin'.
first I could be convinced for lore bard, I was just leaning swords because of the cool factor.
I think you have made me think a lot more clearly about a bunch of those spells on my list especially spirit guardians and haste. and I can't believe I forgot wall of force.
Telekinesis and Wall of force seem like the best options overall but if I was to go Sword Steel wind strike seems like a must have. if I went lore I think Counterspell and find greater steed may be my spells with the extra 2 magical secrets
Well, haste may not scale, but granting either of the front-liners +2 AC, doubled speed, DEX save advantage, and an extra attack per turn for a minute is pretty potent at any level.
The same for slow: a WIS save (which is typically a mediocre save for baddies) that limits it to a single action OR bonus action (but not both) per turn, including only one attack of any kind, -2 AC, and no reactions. It's the kind of thing that can really nerf a big bad if you can stick it, and it only costs a 3rd-level slot.
Being able to scale up a spell is not the only factor to consider. Haste and slow are perfect examples of this.
Healing spirit is worth considering to have some healing support (can fully heal party out of combat).
Counterspell is always useful to have around. I think it is actually wise to have 2 spellcasters with counterspell in a party to counter enemy counters of your counters.
Given the fact that you mentioned TOA, I'll throw a few into the mix that are a little more 'setting specific'. I'll try to avoid any over the top spoilers.
Aura of Life: Given the effects of the Death Curse, this could be a very good spell in situations where the game wants to decrease your parties HP total.
Arcane Eye: It should not be a spoiler that the Tomb of Annihilation involves Tomb exploring, and having a reliable scouting spell to check things out is bound to come in handy.
I'm currently playing ToA and my character is going to be going through a change of class based on story reasons. obviously I've decided on Bard hence why im posting here. I am pretty firm on Swords subclass as I think they are really cool but I've never played a Bard so who knows. so far I've got most things down for the change except the magical secrets spells because their are SO many options I'm having some choice paralysis.
So im going full class swords bard using dueling. I'm thinking of picking up some of the support slack that the cleric is currently carrying but I also want to be effective with damage.
anyone got any advice for spells to pick up?
Currently on the list I've got and I can only pick 2:
Counterspell - always useful
Haste - giving the gunslinger or bladelock a extra attack would be an increase of almost 30 damage a turn.
Teleportation Circle - we currently lack any form of long range teleportation but we're currently in the tomb so it may not be as useful until we leave.
Slow - such a devastating debuff
Fireball - AoE damage we could use more of
Spirit Guardians - AoE damage in melee but con score is only +2 at the moment and radiant damage would be useful
Spiritual Weapon - for a bonus action damage attack since I'll be dueling rather then dual wielding
Find greater steed - Flying mount sounds fun
Telekinesis - my favourite spell on my GOO warlock, so useful in and out of combat
Arcane hand - looks like a better Telekinesis?
We're level 10 and in the party we have:
Bladelock/Fighter that is a melee monster
Gunslinger/Rogue pure damage
Tempest Cleric, tank that also casts a bunch of damaging spells and heals sometimes.
Teleportation circle isn't super-practical unless you know the location of an existing circle to be your target. It also takes a full minute to cast, so only useful out of combat and if you know where you're going. So you can BAMF home, but it won't help you on the way *to* wherever you're going.
I'd take two of Haste / Slow / Counterspell.
Full disclosure here--I know pretty much nothing about the setting. So this post will come from a general "what's good for your Bard overall" viewpoint.
It seems your team has damage down pat. Which means you'd probably do better to focus heavily on support & control. That makes it less-than-ideal that you're going with the Swords subclass, as it focuses on individual combat, but it is what it is.
It'd be nice to know what Bard spells you're going with. If you're already going to be carrying a ton of support/control spells with Concentration, it might rule out needing to choose that for your Magical Secrets spell. I'll just presume you already have a good selection of those (Faerie Fire, Hypnotic Pattern, etc.,) and a few damaging and utility spells as well. In which case...
Telekinesis: has so many uses, from locking down an enemy, to moving barriers out of the way, and can even function as a limited Fly in a pinch. True, it doesn't do direct damage (unless you count dropping creatures from 30-60 feet up,) but IMO it's a better choice than Arcane Hand since it allows a wider variety of interactions for a longer duration.
Wall of Force/Stone: when it comes to battlefield control, these are pretty potent. They're slightly different, but each has their advantages, and either can change the tide of battle as desired.
Steel Wind Strike: not ideal, as it's just massive damage... but if you're going with a Swords bard anyway, it'll assist your movement while doing the massive damage.
Counterspell: this gets an honorable mention, as it's powerful up through level 20; but without knowing how often you face spellcasters, I can't outright recommend it.
These are spells I'd NOT recommend:
Haste/Slow: while excellent spells, they're level 3 and don't scale up. If you're going to pick Magical Secrets spells, you should probably go for the strongest spells you can
Spirit Guardians: a 15-foot damaging aura is probably better suited for a tank--or at least a front-line fighter--than a bard trying to keep his distance and concentrate
Spiritual Weapon: it's pretty mediocre extra damage, and since your cleric only has so much healing, you're probably better off keeping your bonus actions free for Bardic Inspiration and Healing Word
Teleportation Circle: bards can pick this up normally; don't waste a Magical Secrets slot on it!
Fireball: bards have access to Synaptic Static, arguably better than Fireball in every way.
Find Greater Steed: a great spell, and one I'd normally consider, but with three strong damage-dealers already on the team, they probably need support more than they need for you to have a personal flying mount. Just sayin'.
Whistler
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thanks for the quick replies,
first I could be convinced for lore bard, I was just leaning swords because of the cool factor.
I think you have made me think a lot more clearly about a bunch of those spells on my list especially spirit guardians and haste. and I can't believe I forgot wall of force.
Telekinesis and Wall of force seem like the best options overall but if I was to go Sword Steel wind strike seems like a must have. if I went lore I think Counterspell and find greater steed may be my spells with the extra 2 magical secrets
Well, haste may not scale, but granting either of the front-liners +2 AC, doubled speed, DEX save advantage, and an extra attack per turn for a minute is pretty potent at any level.
The same for slow: a WIS save (which is typically a mediocre save for baddies) that limits it to a single action OR bonus action (but not both) per turn, including only one attack of any kind, -2 AC, and no reactions. It's the kind of thing that can really nerf a big bad if you can stick it, and it only costs a 3rd-level slot.
I agree with the rest, though. :)
Being able to scale up a spell is not the only factor to consider. Haste and slow are perfect examples of this.
Healing spirit is worth considering to have some healing support (can fully heal party out of combat).
Counterspell is always useful to have around. I think it is actually wise to have 2 spellcasters with counterspell in a party to counter enemy counters of your counters.
Given the fact that you mentioned TOA, I'll throw a few into the mix that are a little more 'setting specific'. I'll try to avoid any over the top spoilers.
Aura of Life: Given the effects of the Death Curse, this could be a very good spell in situations where the game wants to decrease your parties HP total.
Arcane Eye: It should not be a spoiler that the Tomb of Annihilation involves Tomb exploring, and having a reliable scouting spell to check things out is bound to come in handy.
Treantmonk made a good series of videos about magical secrets.
Not specific to ToA, but I find them helpful:
10th level Magical Secrets picks
14th level Magical Secrets picks
18th level Magical Secrets picks
Lore Bard 6th level Magical Secrets picks
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules