My son wants to make a mandalorian type character for our game. Lots of tricks up his sleeve even. I don't think armourer fits the fantasy well and he wants to hit with either a staff or possibly a sword (clearly his mandalorian has been inspired lol). It doesn't have to start like that, infact delayed gratification won't hurt him. I'm starting them at level 3 and his brother is going for a more cad bane vibe with a ranged battle master. His sister, the third player clearly has either a sick mind or been watching something creepy as she wants to play a knitting needle welding seamstress/tailor. I'm picking rogue not sure what one yet but that's another story perhaps.
So our Artillerist with the flamethrower is where i landed as a melee option, it has a mandalorian vibe and i could start him with an all purpose tool for shileleigh. He's got access to spells for pulling, shocking, little darts (mm), and I'm sure we can find some smoke grenades as items. Im flavouring spells more as inventory than magic.
Do i start him with fighter for some armor proficiency or pick up HAM at 4, or neither? What else would you suggest to level 7-9ish? Or do i switch over to the traditional melee in battlesmith?
I wouldn't worry about getting Heavy Armor for this character concept. I think that you could still hit that feeling of high AC by infusing some Half-Plate armor with Enhanced Defense... give them a shield that's reflavored more as being a particularly thick and defensive gauntlet, now they've got 20 AC, which is the same Defense they would have with non-infused Full Plate armor with a shield. If they can eventually get Adamantine Armor, I think that would fulfill the fantasy of the amazing defensive features of Beskar armor (since it would make them immune to critical hits).
However, if they're dead-set on being primarily a melee combatant, Battlesmith is a better option. You could even have their Steel Defender resemble IG-11 from The Mandalorian. The biggest problem is that there's no good flamethrower analogue in the Battlesmith features or spell list... at best you could use it for the Firebolt cantrip... maybe Create Bonfire. But a flamethrower is usually thought of as an AOE weapon of some kind... maybe it would make sense just to let them cast Burning Hands, since that basically fulfills everything you really want from a flamethrower, and isn't going to drastically unbalance the game by letting Artificers cast that specific spell.
Honestly, the Artificer spell list is missing a few spells that seem like they would make perfect sense for the class.
I would just go pure Artillerist, mount the eldritch cannon on a shoulder or something, and not worry about the melee component. (Or, just use a melee cantrip like Thorn Whip or something when melee comes up).
So our Artillerist with the flamethrower is where i landed as a melee option, it has a mandalorian vibe and i could start him with an all purpose tool for shileleigh.
In particular, All-Purpose Tool is a little sub-optimal for Artillerist, since he can't get a Shield, Arcane Firearm, and the Tool all in his hands at once. (Well, save it for level 14 when he can infuse and use a wand sheath.) Plus, for good damage, he'll want to be using spells anyway, and Shileleigh will feel like it's fallen behind, especially after level 5.
I completely missed the 1hr text on the cannon, and that its a lr recharge. Its melee range he wants to play so maybe i should set him up as a fighter with a dip later as he outfits his armour. To that end he might actually be better as an EK or even a warlockvwith flavouring the spell's as equipment in which case im in the wrong forum =)
Thanks for the advice. I've got some thinking to do.
Keep in mind that the canon recharges on a Long Rest, or you can generate a new one at the cost of a spell slot... considering it to be a "first level spell", it's basically a concentration-free bonus action attack that lasts an hour, which is a crazy good use for a spell slot. If you had a subclass that learned burning Hands, you'd only get one use out of that spell compared to getting the canon for an hour.
That said... to accomplish a melee-focused armored fighter with limited-use special skills, a reflavored Eldritch Knight will be better for what you're going for. I think that, without reflavoring, an Armorer Artificer is the particular subclass I would recommend for an ersatz Mandalorian character, but that largely assumes a character mostly focused on ranged combat, probably reflavoring the Lightning Launcher as a blaster. But if your primary focus is being a melee combatant, and also wanting to use a very specific weapon, Eldritch Knight works way more easily. Especially because the limitations in spell selection still, for the most part, favors spells that could easily fit for this concept... so far, it's the only class or subclass we've discussed that just gets Burning Hands, which is basically the D&D version of a flamethrower.
Going strictly RAW, your son could be an Armorer and take the Magic Adept feat at level 4 to get Burning Hands, or multi class for a level into Wizard to get Burning Hands. Because both are INT focused so it will mesh well. He might also enjoy having Shield as a sort of one-off force field charge.
He might enjoy having Grogu as his homonculus infusion. Force attacks are pretty on point.
Finally, maybe he shouldn’t be proficient with a sword. Djin clearly isn’t in his training session in Book of Boba Fett. He can work at learning how to use a magic sword if he gets one down the line (e.g. a jet black sword that does force damage?).
If the character is a High Elf or Wood Elf, or a half-elf of either, Elven Weapon Training would give the character long and short sword weapon proficiencies without a class or feat, if that’s important to the player.
The Mandalorian didn't start out with the Darksaber, he had to work up to it. So make sure your Artillerist has a solid DEX score then give him a Sunblade. It's a finesse weapon and is essentially a lightsaber. Make it a reward.
Yeah he is set on the melee build with tricks and range as an option not a default. I might have another look at the armourer tonight.
That makes me think Battlesmith. (That's already been discussed, though.)
Yeah I'm wondering what the impact of swapping out that third level feature would be.
Given its just the kids i can be a little relaxed with brewing stuff i reckon.
Honestly, just playing as a Battlesmith and swapping Steel Defender with an Eldritch Cannon seems like it would still be fairly balanced without changing too much.
At 5th level artillerist gets Arcane Firearm vs. a BS's Extra Attack... both roughly equivalent, and neither has any impact on the cannon/defender.
Level 9, the Cannon gets stronger and gets a feature where it can blow up, which doesn't quite gel with how your player seems to want it to work... but BS gives Arcane Jolt, which can be used to deal extra damage or to heal, so I think that can compensate for not making the Cannon more powerful... so again, I think just going Battlesmith with a cannon still works out fine.
You don't run into trouble until 15th level, where the feature leans heavily into the constructs of each class... Artillerist gives half-cover from some kind of force field and the ability to summon a second cannon, while BS increases Arcane Jolt damage and in general beefs up the Steel Defender. I think it would best to combine the two... increase the effect of Arcane Jolt and also include the half-cover force-field for the Cannon.
Overall, I think you can combine the two class features without too much homebrewing and you still end up with a fairly versatile character that captures the feel you're going for without being horribly unbalanced.
Honestly, just playing as a Battlesmith and swapping Steel Defender with an Eldritch Cannon seems like it would still be fairly balanced without changing too much.
That's fairly clever if OP is looking for an easy homebrew.
I think, though, maybe they'd prefer the Artillerist's spell list.
Level 9, the Cannon gets stronger and gets a feature where it can blow up, which doesn't quite gel with how your player seems to want it to work... but BS gives Arcane Jolt, which can be used to deal extra damage or to heal, so I think that can compensate for not making the Cannon more powerful... so again, I think just going Battlesmith with a cannon still works out fine.
The idea that they can throw the flamethrower / blaster / shield as some sort of grenade (or send it off like an autonomous grenade) isn't exactly not mandalorian...
You don't run into trouble until 15th level, where the feature leans heavily into the constructs of each class... Artillerist gives half-cover from some kind of force field and the ability to summon a second cannon, while BS increases Arcane Jolt damage and in general beefs up the Steel Defender. I think it would best to combine the two... increase the effect of Arcane Jolt and also include the half-cover force-field for the Cannon.
It sounds like OP is planning to only go to level 9, anyway.
Use V. Human, take Pole arm master Use both action and bonus action on pole arm attacks Flavor is free so you can use the +2 ac shield and a spear for stats, or a polearm with reach and more damage with no shield.
Steel defender is baby Yodas floating stroller. You use your bonus action to hit with pole arm most of the time so it takes the dodge action keeping it safe and allowing it to use its reaction to "use the force" and make enemies miss. It can attack if needed i guess.
You can swap out heroism or shield for burning hands, or just let him pick it as a spell, its not going to break anything. Or Use tashas caustic brew for it and have it do fire damage
Catapult is kind of fun to take if you flavor it as grogu casting it
Not a single person actually answered actually using ops concept.
Ditch shelielghlie, start as fighter 1 for the heavy armour and then go artillerist. We want Str, int and Con.
We use a quarterstaff to fight (preferably with a shield but can be dual wielded if your kid prefers). The idea is we wade into combat, use green flame blade and follow up with the flamethrower.
At level 5 we get arcane firearm which allows us to make a wand, rod or STAFF (Magical foci staffs are confirmed to have identical mechanics to querterstaffs and can be used as such) to add a d8 damage when we cast a spell through it. That means our cantrip which adds 1d8 to a weapon attack is now adding 2d8 without any saves or conditions to meet.
Follow up with the flamethrower for another 2d8, preferably to many opponents.
The weakness here is that you'll want to add the +1 weapon infusion on the staff which means you're losing out on the enhanced focus infusion as your strength will remain at 16 until level ten when you can make the giant strength gauntlets bringing it up to 19.
Many dms allow placing the flamethrower on a shoulder when it's tiny, if not ditch the shield and carry it on your offhand.
Its not the bestest build that ever lived but it's fun and fits the ask. Spells like fairies fire fit right into mandos toolbox.
Not a single person actually answered actually using ops concept.
Ditch shelielghlie, start as fighter 1 for the heavy armour and then go artillerist. We want Str, int and Con.
We use a quarterstaff to fight (preferably with a shield but can be dual wielded if your kid prefers). The idea is we wade into combat, use green flame blade and follow up with the flamethrower.
At level 5 we get arcane firearm which allows us to make a wand, rod or STAFF (Magical foci staffs are confirmed to have identical mechanics to querterstaffs and can be used as such) to add a d8 damage when we cast a spell through it. That means our cantrip which adds 1d8 to a weapon attack is now adding 2d8 without any saves or conditions to meet.
Follow up with the flamethrower for another 2d8, preferably to many opponents.
The weakness here is that you'll want to add the +1 weapon infusion on the staff which means you're losing out on the enhanced focus infusion as your strength will remain at 16 until level ten when you can make the giant strength gauntlets bringing it up to 19.
Many dms allow placing the flamethrower on a shoulder when it's tiny, if not ditch the shield and carry it on your offhand.
Its not the bestest build that ever lived but it's fun and fits the ask. Spells like fairies fire fit right into mandos toolbox.
If they can get their hands on an All-Purpose Tool, they can learn Shillilegh as an Artificer spell and apply their INT bonus to the attack roll. Then they can use the Enhanced Arcane Focus and not have to worry about the +1 Weapon Infusion.
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My son wants to make a mandalorian type character for our game. Lots of tricks up his sleeve even. I don't think armourer fits the fantasy well and he wants to hit with either a staff or possibly a sword (clearly his mandalorian has been inspired lol). It doesn't have to start like that, infact delayed gratification won't hurt him. I'm starting them at level 3 and his brother is going for a more cad bane vibe with a ranged battle master. His sister, the third player clearly has either a sick mind or been watching something creepy as she wants to play a knitting needle welding seamstress/tailor. I'm picking rogue not sure what one yet but that's another story perhaps.
So our Artillerist with the flamethrower is where i landed as a melee option, it has a mandalorian vibe and i could start him with an all purpose tool for shileleigh. He's got access to spells for pulling, shocking, little darts (mm), and I'm sure we can find some smoke grenades as items. Im flavouring spells more as inventory than magic.
Do i start him with fighter for some armor proficiency or pick up HAM at 4, or neither? What else would you suggest to level 7-9ish? Or do i switch over to the traditional melee in battlesmith?
I wouldn't worry about getting Heavy Armor for this character concept. I think that you could still hit that feeling of high AC by infusing some Half-Plate armor with Enhanced Defense... give them a shield that's reflavored more as being a particularly thick and defensive gauntlet, now they've got 20 AC, which is the same Defense they would have with non-infused Full Plate armor with a shield. If they can eventually get Adamantine Armor, I think that would fulfill the fantasy of the amazing defensive features of Beskar armor (since it would make them immune to critical hits).
However, if they're dead-set on being primarily a melee combatant, Battlesmith is a better option. You could even have their Steel Defender resemble IG-11 from The Mandalorian. The biggest problem is that there's no good flamethrower analogue in the Battlesmith features or spell list... at best you could use it for the Firebolt cantrip... maybe Create Bonfire. But a flamethrower is usually thought of as an AOE weapon of some kind... maybe it would make sense just to let them cast Burning Hands, since that basically fulfills everything you really want from a flamethrower, and isn't going to drastically unbalance the game by letting Artificers cast that specific spell.
Honestly, the Artificer spell list is missing a few spells that seem like they would make perfect sense for the class.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I would just go pure Artillerist, mount the eldritch cannon on a shoulder or something, and not worry about the melee component. (Or, just use a melee cantrip like Thorn Whip or something when melee comes up).
In particular, All-Purpose Tool is a little sub-optimal for Artillerist, since he can't get a Shield, Arcane Firearm, and the Tool all in his hands at once. (Well, save it for level 14 when he can infuse and use a wand sheath.) Plus, for good damage, he'll want to be using spells anyway, and Shileleigh will feel like it's fallen behind, especially after level 5.
I completely missed the 1hr text on the cannon, and that its a lr recharge. Its melee range he wants to play so maybe i should set him up as a fighter with a dip later as he outfits his armour. To that end he might actually be better as an EK or even a warlockvwith flavouring the spell's as equipment in which case im in the wrong forum =)
Thanks for the advice. I've got some thinking to do.
Keep in mind that the canon recharges on a Long Rest, or you can generate a new one at the cost of a spell slot... considering it to be a "first level spell", it's basically a concentration-free bonus action attack that lasts an hour, which is a crazy good use for a spell slot. If you had a subclass that learned burning Hands, you'd only get one use out of that spell compared to getting the canon for an hour.
That said... to accomplish a melee-focused armored fighter with limited-use special skills, a reflavored Eldritch Knight will be better for what you're going for. I think that, without reflavoring, an Armorer Artificer is the particular subclass I would recommend for an ersatz Mandalorian character, but that largely assumes a character mostly focused on ranged combat, probably reflavoring the Lightning Launcher as a blaster. But if your primary focus is being a melee combatant, and also wanting to use a very specific weapon, Eldritch Knight works way more easily. Especially because the limitations in spell selection still, for the most part, favors spells that could easily fit for this concept... so far, it's the only class or subclass we've discussed that just gets Burning Hands, which is basically the D&D version of a flamethrower.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Going strictly RAW, your son could be an Armorer and take the Magic Adept feat at level 4 to get Burning Hands, or multi class for a level into Wizard to get Burning Hands. Because both are INT focused so it will mesh well. He might also enjoy having Shield as a sort of one-off force field charge.
He might enjoy having Grogu as his homonculus infusion. Force attacks are pretty on point.
Finally, maybe he shouldn’t be proficient with a sword. Djin clearly isn’t in his training session in Book of Boba Fett. He can work at learning how to use a magic sword if he gets one down the line (e.g. a jet black sword that does force damage?).
If the character is a High Elf or Wood Elf, or a half-elf of either, Elven Weapon Training would give the character long and short sword weapon proficiencies without a class or feat, if that’s important to the player.
Yeah he is set on the melee build with tricks and range as an option not a default. I might have another look at the armourer tonight.
That makes me think Battlesmith. (That's already been discussed, though.)
Yeah I'm wondering what the impact of swapping out that third level feature would be.
Given its just the kids i can be a little relaxed with brewing stuff i reckon.
The Mandalorian didn't start out with the Darksaber, he had to work up to it. So make sure your Artillerist has a solid DEX score then give him a Sunblade. It's a finesse weapon and is essentially a lightsaber. Make it a reward.
You could also go the "fire bomb" way with the Alchemist kit and Fire.
Or just go Armorist, and "flavour" the lighting launcher as a flame thrower. It is not like it is a huge AOE anyways
Honestly, just playing as a Battlesmith and swapping Steel Defender with an Eldritch Cannon seems like it would still be fairly balanced without changing too much.
At 5th level artillerist gets Arcane Firearm vs. a BS's Extra Attack... both roughly equivalent, and neither has any impact on the cannon/defender.
Level 9, the Cannon gets stronger and gets a feature where it can blow up, which doesn't quite gel with how your player seems to want it to work... but BS gives Arcane Jolt, which can be used to deal extra damage or to heal, so I think that can compensate for not making the Cannon more powerful... so again, I think just going Battlesmith with a cannon still works out fine.
You don't run into trouble until 15th level, where the feature leans heavily into the constructs of each class... Artillerist gives half-cover from some kind of force field and the ability to summon a second cannon, while BS increases Arcane Jolt damage and in general beefs up the Steel Defender. I think it would best to combine the two... increase the effect of Arcane Jolt and also include the half-cover force-field for the Cannon.
Overall, I think you can combine the two class features without too much homebrewing and you still end up with a fairly versatile character that captures the feel you're going for without being horribly unbalanced.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
That's fairly clever if OP is looking for an easy homebrew.
I think, though, maybe they'd prefer the Artillerist's spell list.
The idea that they can throw the flamethrower / blaster / shield as some sort of grenade (or send it off like an autonomous grenade) isn't exactly not mandalorian...
It sounds like OP is planning to only go to level 9, anyway.
Battlesmith
Use V. Human, take Pole arm master
Use both action and bonus action on pole arm attacks
Flavor is free so you can use the +2 ac shield and a spear for stats, or a polearm with reach and more damage with no shield.
Steel defender is baby Yodas floating stroller. You use your bonus action to hit with pole arm most of the time so it takes the dodge action keeping it safe and allowing it to use its reaction to "use the force" and make enemies miss. It can attack if needed i guess.
You can swap out heroism or shield for burning hands, or just let him pick it as a spell, its not going to break anything.
Or
Use tashas caustic brew for it and have it do fire damage
Catapult is kind of fun to take if you flavor it as grogu casting it
Not a single person actually answered actually using ops concept.
Ditch shelielghlie, start as fighter 1 for the heavy armour and then go artillerist. We want Str, int and Con.
We use a quarterstaff to fight (preferably with a shield but can be dual wielded if your kid prefers). The idea is we wade into combat, use green flame blade and follow up with the flamethrower.
At level 5 we get arcane firearm which allows us to make a wand, rod or STAFF (Magical foci staffs are confirmed to have identical mechanics to querterstaffs and can be used as such) to add a d8 damage when we cast a spell through it. That means our cantrip which adds 1d8 to a weapon attack is now adding 2d8 without any saves or conditions to meet.
Follow up with the flamethrower for another 2d8, preferably to many opponents.
The weakness here is that you'll want to add the +1 weapon infusion on the staff which means you're losing out on the enhanced focus infusion as your strength will remain at 16 until level ten when you can make the giant strength gauntlets bringing it up to 19.
Many dms allow placing the flamethrower on a shoulder when it's tiny, if not ditch the shield and carry it on your offhand.
Its not the bestest build that ever lived but it's fun and fits the ask. Spells like fairies fire fit right into mandos toolbox.
If they can get their hands on an All-Purpose Tool, they can learn Shillilegh as an Artificer spell and apply their INT bonus to the attack roll. Then they can use the Enhanced Arcane Focus and not have to worry about the +1 Weapon Infusion.