As to the YouTube videos and that of best builds and such.
I have seen a lot of these such builds thrown together in 1-shot “battle royales” and they don’t work near as well as you think.
you then said “they aren’t just making them for the fun of it”... can you prove that? I watched a video of a guy amputating his own.... you know... male parts... because he wanted more views on YouTube. Before YouTube pulled it. PEOPLE WILL POST LITERALLY ANYTHING BY IF IT GETS THE VIEWS.
the term is “clickbait” it’s a real thing. You can google it.
Cathsith21 posted some interesting observations about D&D. Some of them are relevant to spellcasting classes. I thought they could be discussed here.
Sure? Lets do that but i dont know what the topic would be? I agree i discussed pretty broadly but most of the time (at least i thought) i tried to answer points from other people who queoted me? I should probably have used quotes myself...
1) one point was probably that magic can do all that non mages can do but better which weirdly i think nobody ever disagreed with me before?
2) how can there a be a conflict of views in something that is pretty easy to calculate or guess? Either something is good or bad. If that is important is of course up to each one but if it is good or bad is most of thr time deductable and very easy id argue?
3) why would you cast healing word on a person that is not down or is down and will woth 99% likelyhood go down again before his turn will come? Thats why i came here my most hated combo vicious mockery and healing word. :)
that would probably be a summary of my rhoughts? :)
hey um can i see the original quotes that we are discussing here and also can somebody explain why it was decided to have this conversation on the bard forum out of all forums?
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
@arifice meal The original discussion started eith vicious mockery cause i asked why bards always fo this instead of using for example a crrosbow at level 1 like most mages do until level 5.
Then there was sombody saying something like its the job of martials of killing stuff and spellcasters assit. If you want to kill stuff play a martial. The i said i agree that that is the best use of their talents but if they choose to fill the part of killing they can do at least as good a job probably even better depending on the subclass and level of the PC. Not to mention multiclass.
Then like 15 back and forth we are here? :)
but as said below. Was not aware this is not an universal world view resp. Minority view and dont care enough to continue this discussion. else i wouldnt even have opened that bottle. :)
found a similar discussion on dnd beyond wheee the same topic has already 25 pages of both sides just saying sie A or B would obvioulsy win. So aparently its one of this eggs and chicken discussions.
@eightpackkilla I have never seen a pvp battle. My point was i dont know how a fighter could beat a diviner wizard who protects himself with contingency and would then us his turn to portent a save or suck spell. I feel like that works in a vacuum everytime. But as i mentioned have not seen it so maybe there is a trick to beat that? (Ands thats not a build i found online. I weould not say its my build cause its so uncreative but i dont have it from a guid aritifcer 1 and x diviner wizard , that synergi is so strong that its hard to miss).
i even said several times thats not a good strategy to compare classes. But then again i thought that was something people agreed on and was not my intention to spend so much time on. That spellcaster at leadt in tier 4 are the “best” class due to wish and othrr things to shape and change reality. But to be honest i care not enough to continue this discussion. Everybody shall play what he wants.
i for example even like the concept of rogues in general. Not so much like a spellcaster which i usually play, but if i had to play a martial rogue would be the only one i would like. In solasta you have to build a party 4 out of cleric, paladin, fighter, rogue and ranger. And my party was rogue wizard, paladin and ranger (cause i dont like clerics conceptionally eventhough i agree they are very good). The ranger was surprisingly usefull and the rogue completly uesless but that fighting is more like a dugneon crawl and the strenghs from the rogue do not really can be applied. I mention that cause in a game you play more then one player like in tabletop and thus also take classes you would not play yourself if you can avoid it. And cause you build all players you can make sure that the party has all skills and knows all languages and all atributes are represented. ;)
Back to the main subject: if the player plays smartly i enjoy watching the other players does not matter the class. If they play bad its annoying if the fight is tough and if not then does not matter either but i of course still give hints how it could be done even better what most people love.👍😅
@eightpackkilla 1st post Yes i would even encourage a dm to do that. But funny enough in official campaigns to my knowledge there is no protection against this tactics? In avernus you can reach the house of one of the rulers of BG with invisibility for example?
Think about what it means for a world when there is a truth spell? Example for that you see in the spelmonger series or in schooled in magic. Thats a huge power the ruling class has. They can frame people and then under the truth spell reveal tax fraud or whatever. And based on my observations dnd completly ignores that. Maybe your DM is better in that but official content (FR) plays almost like normal medieval times eventhough most of it makes no sense in a world with magic. Sure its rare but i dont say the life of peasonts would be far different but of the ruling class?
regarding the box. Knock can be combined with silence and everybody can get thiev tools with background and bards have jack of all trades to be ok at lockpicking and all other stuff that requires skills probably beating rogues as skill monkeys?
Regarding castles. Sonce thr invention of canons we dont use castles anymore eventhough they are a better protection than a village correct? And do you know what imense cost etc. are required to build a castle? Nobody would build a castle when its so easily defeated.
regarding one way assumptions? I mean i know how the world works withouth magic and then i imagine what would happen when i introduce magic. Thus my assumptions only apply to magic cause i know what happend withouth or what do you mean by this question?
its more a coincidence but saw yesterday a cool new youtube channel called terrible writing advice. One video was about building a fantasy world and one about fantasy battles. I can highly suggest it cause i found it pretty funny. Is not directly related to DNd but most of his video track pretty much my usual criticism about fantasy books, games etc. like repeating always the same boring races, military comanders who are horrible strategists...and all this choosens bs. The channel is extremly close to the point i try to make about how magic would affect a world and even animated? :)
As to the YouTube videos and that of best builds and such.
I have seen a lot of these such builds thrown together in 1-shot “battle royales” and they don’t work near as well as you think.
you then said “they aren’t just making them for the fun of it”... can you prove that? I watched a video of a guy amputating his own.... you know... male parts... because he wanted more views on YouTube. Before YouTube pulled it. PEOPLE WILL POST LITERALLY ANYTHING BY IF IT GETS THE VIEWS.
the term is “clickbait” it’s a real thing. You can google it.
Blank
hey um can i see the original quotes that we are discussing here and also can somebody explain why it was decided to have this conversation on the bard forum out of all forums?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
@arifice meal
The original discussion started eith vicious mockery cause i asked why bards always fo this instead of using for example a crrosbow at level 1 like most mages do until level 5.
Then there was sombody saying something like its the job of martials of killing stuff and spellcasters assit. If you want to kill stuff play a martial. The i said i agree that that is the best use of their talents but if they choose to fill the part of killing they can do at least as good a job probably even better depending on the subclass and level of the PC. Not to mention multiclass.
Then like 15 back and forth we are here? :)
but as said below. Was not aware this is not an universal world view resp. Minority view and dont care enough to continue this discussion. else i wouldnt even have opened that bottle. :)
found a similar discussion on dnd beyond wheee the same topic has already 25 pages of both sides just saying sie A or B would obvioulsy win. So aparently its one of this eggs and chicken discussions.
@eightpackkilla
I have never seen a pvp battle. My point was i dont know how a fighter could beat a diviner wizard who protects himself with contingency and would then us his turn to portent a save or suck spell. I feel like that works in a vacuum everytime. But as i mentioned have not seen it so maybe there is a trick to beat that? (Ands thats not a build i found online. I weould not say its my build cause its so uncreative but i dont have it from a guid aritifcer 1 and x diviner wizard , that synergi is so strong that its hard to miss).
i even said several times thats not a good strategy to compare classes. But then again i thought that was something people agreed on and was not my intention to spend so much time on. That spellcaster at leadt in tier 4 are the “best” class due to wish and othrr things to shape and change reality. But to be honest i care not enough to continue this discussion. Everybody shall play what he wants.
i for example even like the concept of rogues in general. Not so much like a spellcaster which i usually play, but if i had to play a martial rogue would be the only one i would like. In solasta you have to build a party 4 out of cleric, paladin, fighter, rogue and ranger. And my party was rogue wizard, paladin and ranger (cause i dont like clerics conceptionally eventhough i agree they are very good). The ranger was surprisingly usefull and the rogue completly uesless but that fighting is more like a dugneon crawl and the strenghs from the rogue do not really can be applied. I mention that cause in a game you play more then one player like in tabletop and thus also take classes you would not play yourself if you can avoid it. And cause you build all players you can make sure that the party has all skills and knows all languages and all atributes are represented. ;)
Back to the main subject: if the player plays smartly i enjoy watching the other players does not matter the class. If they play bad its annoying if the fight is tough and if not then does not matter either but i of course still give hints how it could be done even better what most people love.👍😅
So lets have all fun and i resign :)
@eightpackkilla 1st post
Yes i would even encourage a dm to do that. But funny enough in official campaigns to my knowledge there is no protection against this tactics? In avernus you can reach the house of one of the rulers of BG with invisibility for example?
Think about what it means for a world when there is a truth spell? Example for that you see in the spelmonger series or in schooled in magic. Thats a huge power the ruling class has. They can frame people and then under the truth spell reveal tax fraud or whatever. And based on my observations dnd completly ignores that. Maybe your DM is better in that but official content (FR) plays almost like normal medieval times eventhough most of it makes no sense in a world with magic. Sure its rare but i dont say the life of peasonts would be far different but of the ruling class?
regarding the box. Knock can be combined with silence and everybody can get thiev tools with background and bards have jack of all trades to be ok at lockpicking and all other stuff that requires skills probably beating rogues as skill monkeys?
Regarding castles. Sonce thr invention of canons we dont use castles anymore eventhough they are a better protection than a village correct? And do you know what imense cost etc. are required to build a castle? Nobody would build a castle when its so easily defeated.
regarding one way assumptions? I mean i know how the world works withouth magic and then i imagine what would happen when i introduce magic. Thus my assumptions only apply to magic cause i know what happend withouth or what do you mean by this question?
its more a coincidence but saw yesterday a cool new youtube channel called terrible writing advice. One video was about building a fantasy world and one about fantasy battles. I can highly suggest it cause i found it pretty funny. Is not directly related to DNd but most of his video track pretty much my usual criticism about fantasy books, games etc. like repeating always the same boring races, military comanders who are horrible strategists...and all this choosens bs. The channel is extremly close to the point i try to make about how magic would affect a world and even animated? :)
fantasy battles:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-vS21V11Naw
Fantasy characters:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rR220D7OH1Y
p.s. he even mentions the dragon but that i stole from spellmonger series, maybe he as well.