RAW - Goodberry is a Druid/Ranger spell AND it cannot be cast at a higher level. It would state otherwise in the spell description. I would not allow it in my campaign I DM to get into all this OP territory, because it just doesn't make sense as is written. Just my thoughts...
Could you give a citation for RAW not allowing the spell to be cast at a higher level slot. The rules on Goodberry means that (without the Life Domain bonus) it only ever heals 1 hp no matter how high of a slot you use.
Hey FMB! I'm surprised to have stumbled upon your post. Hope all is well!
I don't see a problem casting a spell at a higher level slot, but there wouldn't be any additional effects beyond what it has at its original level, unless it is detailed in the spell's description. So, Goodberry would always produce 10 berries not matter what level spell slot you used.
Additionally, I disagree with Goodberry getting any bump even if you have Disciple of Life. The spell produces berries, it doesn't directly heal. Lastly, +3 per berry is way overpowered... even though it sounds cool. Haha
Options that I've read, thought about, and discussed with others is to reward creativity...
Give one berry the +3, hence 13hp restored
Produce 13 berries instead.
Give the 1st berry eaten by a creature have the +3. So in a 5 member party if each member ate 2 berries, they would each be healed 5hp (1st: 4hp, 2nd: 1hp).
For what it's worth (which is nothing), I'm with the folks who say Disciple of Life shouldn't apply because you're not "us[ing] a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature;" you're using a spell to create berries that may or may not restore hit points to a creature some time in the future.
I know I'm resurrecting this thread, but if folks are going to abuse good berry, why not make them roll a d10 for the number of berries they get. It says "Up to 10" berries, I see no reason why you'd have to automatically give them 10 berries.
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level.
RAW this wouldn't give each berry +3 healing. It would give the spell +3 healing. So either it makes one berry at +3 healing OR it creates 3 more berries.
As far as overall healing, it isn't OP. It takes one action to heal 1 hp. It would take 1 minute (FOREVER in combat) to heal 10 hp.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level.
RAW this wouldn't give each berry +3 healing. It would give the spell +3 healing. So either it makes one berry at +3 healing OR it creates 3 more berries.
As far as overall healing, it isn't OP. It takes one action to heal 1 hp. It would take 1 minute (FOREVER in combat) to heal 10 hp.
Except that it's explicitly called out as being RAW.
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level.
RAW this wouldn't give each berry +3 healing. It would give the spell +3 healing. So either it makes one berry at +3 healing OR it creates 3 more berries.
As far as overall healing, it isn't OP. It takes one action to heal 1 hp. It would take 1 minute (FOREVER in combat) to heal 10 hp.
Except that it's explicitly called out as being RAW.
OK, upfront I'm not arguing to argue. But I agree, it is RAW. A spell for A creature. One spell one creature. Not one spell for 10 creatures.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Officially, the combination works. Sage Advice ruling right here. Multi-classing is funky that way - some combinations work extremely well, others are hideously terribad. Well, not even a multi-class thing, given that Magic Initiate can pull the same thing off. That said, I'm not really sure if this combination is really worth writing home about. Sure, ten berries that can restore 40 HP total is nice, but that's primarily an out of combat healing thing, and frankly, out of combat healing is already funky with a couple spells. I mean, hells. Its been over a year and people are still complaining about Healing Spirit.
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level.
RAW this wouldn't give each berry +3 healing. It would give the spell +3 healing. So either it makes one berry at +3 healing OR it creates 3 more berries.
As far as overall healing, it isn't OP. It takes one action to heal 1 hp. It would take 1 minute (FOREVER in combat) to heal 10 hp.
Except that it's explicitly called out as being RAW.
OK, upfront I'm not arguing to argue. But I agree, it is RAW. A spell for A creature. One spell one creature. Not one spell for 10 creatures.
To me, the key word is "creature.". Good Berry isn't directly affecting a creature - it's creating some magic berries that may or may not heal something in the next 24 hours.
I know this is an older post, but I have heard this discussion a few times around the net and personally just because Crawford said he'd allow it doesn't mean it actually works, just that he would allow it.
Personally I have always argued that this doesn't even work. The cleric ability works on healing spells. Goodberry is not a healing spell. It is a spell that creates berries that happen to heal. Second, even if I did allow it to boost each berry, I dare a player in a game I am DM'ing to eat more then 1 of anything that nourishes you for 24 hours.
Oh, whats that, you want to eat 40 Goodberries, ok, eat 3 and give me a CON save for every berry thereafter, DC goes up every 2 berries, ok you done eating. Great you now fall asleep for 1d12 hours and when you wake up you have x levels of exhaustion (x being determined by how many in total they ate). What did we all learn from this?
Why do I say such crazy things? Goodberry is not the most efficient low level druid spell at out-of-combat healing, with or without disciple of life. That honor goes to Healing Spirit.
Healing Spirit by default gives anyone who touches it in a turn 1d6 healing, and it lasts for 10 turns. Yes, 10d6 healing for your party as you sit in the corner of a dungeon for 1 minute to recover. So let me say that again, all of your party members - all, each get 10d6 healing, with no trickery; this is RAW and RAI. If you add disciple of life it becomes 10d6+40 for each person. Why torture your players for being clever? If they took an entire feat (magic initiate) for Goodberry, they crippled the potential of their character for this little cheesy trick. If they multiclassed into Life Cleric to pick up Disciple of Life, they're behind the curve on what they can do besides Goodberry.
Why do I say such crazy things? Goodberry is not the most efficient low level druid spell at out-of-combat healing, with or without disciple of life. That honor goes to Healing Spirit.
Healing Spirit by default gives anyone who touches it in a turn 1d6 healing, and it lasts for 10 turns. Yes, 10d6 healing for your party as you sit in the corner of a dungeon for 1 minute to recover. So let me say that again, all of your party members - all, each get 10d6 healing, with no trickery; this is RAW and RAI. If you add disciple of life it becomes 10d6+40 for each person. Why torture your players for being clever? If they took an entire feat (magic initiate) for Goodberry, they crippled the potential of their character for this little cheesy trick. If they multiclassed into Life Cleric to pick up Disciple of Life, they're behind the curve on what they can do besides Goodberry.
Not so much that I am sadistic, just that it would be trying to break the spell, I would caution them before doing such a build, or such an attempt.
As for Healing Spirit, yeah, that spell is amazing - that would be what you would want to combine, and as it is a healing spell I have no problem with it working with the Life ability, although I am not certain I would rule it as +40 as opposed to +4, would have to think on that part.
Having looked over Disciple of Life I would allow it to work with Healing Spirit as a +40, now to convince our Druid to dip into Life Cleric, lol. 1 post combat casting will restore all our HP until about level 9
This shows the total healing from round 1-10 at spell level 2-9, the base healing and then the base healing + Disciple of Life and the total for a party of 5. As you can see at level 2 the base healing is 35hp per person (175hp total for a party of 5) or with Disciple of Life 75hp per person (375hp total for a party of 5). At 4th level with Disciple or 5th without, this spell does more healing then the 9th level spell Mass Heal. You would never need to even use this at 9th level with or without Disciple as you average adventurer doesn’t even have 285-395 hp, even at level 20.
I know people mostly think about this as an out of combat spell, but you can move it 30ft per turn as a bonus action, and any friendly creature it sweeps past gets healed that round so as long as your front liners stay within 30ft they can all get healed every round of combat.
A Druid or to a lesser extent Ranger with a single level dip of Life Cleric is easily the best healer in the game.
RAW - Goodberry is a Druid/Ranger spell AND it cannot be cast at a higher level. It would state otherwise in the spell description. I would not allow it in my campaign I DM to get into all this OP territory, because it just doesn't make sense as is written. Just my thoughts...
Could you give a citation for RAW not allowing the spell to be cast at a higher level slot.
The rules on Goodberry means that (without the Life Domain bonus) it only ever heals 1 hp no matter how high of a slot you use.
In Spell Slots in the Basic Rules
Hey FMB! I'm surprised to have stumbled upon your post. Hope all is well!
I don't see a problem casting a spell at a higher level slot, but there wouldn't be any additional effects beyond what it has at its original level, unless it is detailed in the spell's description. So, Goodberry would always produce 10 berries not matter what level spell slot you used.
Additionally, I disagree with Goodberry getting any bump even if you have Disciple of Life. The spell produces berries, it doesn't directly heal. Lastly, +3 per berry is way overpowered... even though it sounds cool. Haha
Options that I've read, thought about, and discussed with others is to reward creativity...
In the end, it's up to the DM though.
For what it's worth (which is nothing), I'm with the folks who say Disciple of Life shouldn't apply because you're not "us[ing] a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature;" you're using a spell to create berries that may or may not restore hit points to a creature some time in the future.
I know I'm resurrecting this thread, but if folks are going to abuse good berry, why not make them roll a d10 for the number of berries they get. It says "Up to 10" berries, I see no reason why you'd have to automatically give them 10 berries.
Disciple of Life
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level.
RAW this wouldn't give each berry +3 healing. It would give the spell +3 healing. So either it makes one berry at +3 healing OR it creates 3 more berries.
As far as overall healing, it isn't OP. It takes one action to heal 1 hp. It would take 1 minute (FOREVER in combat) to heal 10 hp.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Except that it's explicitly called out as being RAW.
OK, upfront I'm not arguing to argue. But I agree, it is RAW. A spell for A creature. One spell one creature. Not one spell for 10 creatures.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Officially, the combination works. Sage Advice ruling right here. Multi-classing is funky that way - some combinations work extremely well, others are hideously terribad. Well, not even a multi-class thing, given that Magic Initiate can pull the same thing off. That said, I'm not really sure if this combination is really worth writing home about. Sure, ten berries that can restore 40 HP total is nice, but that's primarily an out of combat healing thing, and frankly, out of combat healing is already funky with a couple spells. I mean, hells. Its been over a year and people are still complaining about Healing Spirit.
To me, the key word is "creature.". Good Berry isn't directly affecting a creature - it's creating some magic berries that may or may not heal something in the next 24 hours.
I don't mind the more than one per day. They are also reasonably well gated in combat as they require an 'action' to eat only one.
Its only out of combat where they take on full potential.
You mean full cheat mode.
A level 1 spell should not heal 30 hp. You would need to upcast cure wounds to lvl 6 in order to reliably heal 30 hp.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I know this is an older post, but I have heard this discussion a few times around the net and personally just because Crawford said he'd allow it doesn't mean it actually works, just that he would allow it.
Personally I have always argued that this doesn't even work. The cleric ability works on healing spells. Goodberry is not a healing spell. It is a spell that creates berries that happen to heal. Second, even if I did allow it to boost each berry, I dare a player in a game I am DM'ing to eat more then 1 of anything that nourishes you for 24 hours.
Oh, whats that, you want to eat 40 Goodberries, ok, eat 3 and give me a CON save for every berry thereafter, DC goes up every 2 berries, ok you done eating. Great you now fall asleep for 1d12 hours and when you wake up you have x levels of exhaustion (x being determined by how many in total they ate). What did we all learn from this?
We learned that you're a sadistic DM.
Why do I say such crazy things? Goodberry is not the most efficient low level druid spell at out-of-combat healing, with or without disciple of life. That honor goes to Healing Spirit.
Healing Spirit by default gives anyone who touches it in a turn 1d6 healing, and it lasts for 10 turns. Yes, 10d6 healing for your party as you sit in the corner of a dungeon for 1 minute to recover. So let me say that again, all of your party members - all, each get 10d6 healing, with no trickery; this is RAW and RAI. If you add disciple of life it becomes 10d6+40 for each person. Why torture your players for being clever? If they took an entire feat (magic initiate) for Goodberry, they crippled the potential of their character for this little cheesy trick. If they multiclassed into Life Cleric to pick up Disciple of Life, they're behind the curve on what they can do besides Goodberry.
Just Make Healing Spirit a Combat Only spell.
or not.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Not so much that I am sadistic, just that it would be trying to break the spell, I would caution them before doing such a build, or such an attempt.
As for Healing Spirit, yeah, that spell is amazing - that would be what you would want to combine, and as it is a healing spell I have no problem with it working with the Life ability, although I am not certain I would rule it as +40 as opposed to +4, would have to think on that part.
I don't think casting Goodberry spell restores HP. Its effect is to create some magic berries, so I don't think Life domain's feature should apply.
Agreed more or less.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Having looked over Disciple of Life I would allow it to work with Healing Spirit as a +40, now to convince our Druid to dip into Life Cleric, lol. 1 post combat casting will restore all our HP until about level 9
Did a little number crunching...
This shows the total healing from round 1-10 at spell level 2-9, the base healing and then the base healing + Disciple of Life and the total for a party of 5. As you can see at level 2 the base healing is 35hp per person (175hp total for a party of 5) or with Disciple of Life 75hp per person (375hp total for a party of 5). At 4th level with Disciple or 5th without, this spell does more healing then the 9th level spell Mass Heal. You would never need to even use this at 9th level with or without Disciple as you average adventurer doesn’t even have 285-395 hp, even at level 20.
I know people mostly think about this as an out of combat spell, but you can move it 30ft per turn as a bonus action, and any friendly creature it sweeps past gets healed that round so as long as your front liners stay within 30ft they can all get healed every round of combat.
A Druid or to a lesser extent Ranger with a single level dip of Life Cleric is easily the best healer in the game.