Yeah, plus there might be some neat push pull shenanigans you can get into with moonbeam, though those might also be better served with spike growth, which is maybe a better 2nd level choice. Maybe even better than a summon beast in some of cases.
...well first off I don't know why you would be a Druid at Level 10 and NOT have maxed Wisdom... With a 20 Wisdom, we would typically get 2 more spells but okay =P
Personally my Druids considering SA or PB never have 20 Wis at level 10. A Non-human will get 2 ASI up to this point, and considering that Druid are pretty heavy at concentration I would never get ASI before "Resilient(CON) or War Caster". Been honest, as I see, lvl4 is a perfect moment to get one of those, even better than lvl1(Human).
At lvl8 is more understandable to go for the +1 WIS, but since starting with 17 WIS is really unlike considering that most races give, at best, get +1 on WIS you just can't get a "Half-Feat" like Fey Touched. So, again, personally I prefer a full feat like 'Luck' than upgrading my wisdom from 16 to 18. Although at this level I complete understand who prefer to get this +1 on WIS for augmenting some spell, skills as getting one more preparation.
OBS: I think the lvl8 choice will be heavy on PlayerStyle. If you look into my list you see that WIS wouldn't impact that much on my "supportive" way. AMOF from my 13 spells 4 would have any benefit from the extra 1 WIS, and from this 4, two will have really few impact from this Wis increase. So, I don't think +1 WIS would be better than a feet on lvl8.
Yeah, plus there might be some neat push pull shenanigans you can get into with moonbeam, though those might also be better served with spike growth, which is maybe a better 2nd level choice. Maybe even better than a summon beast in some of cases.
I really like the Summon Beast spell, but unlike Conjure Animals which can provide multiple creature on the field, I feel a single summon creature with mediocore HP is more dependent on the party composition.
As for taking concentration and/or Warcaster first before maxing wisdom?? To each and his own. I agree that concentration is very important, but not sure if I would prioritize that over the actual Spell DC or Spell Attack Roll first. You also get more spells to prepare with a higher wisdom, which helps with the above spell list. But, everyone has their own playstyle :-D
Most of this depends on party composition ie. if there is a wizard they will be the main ritual caster for the group. Combat is either trying to land a good Faerie Fire or Summon Beast and then if any emergency healing is required you've got Polymorph. I'd pretty much rely on Wildshape for exploration although I like Detect Magic and Pass without Trace lending a hand. Finally Enhance Ability and Speak with Animals have to do some pretty heavy lifting in the social pillar.
1st: Detect Magic, Faerie Fire, Goodberry & Speak with Animals
I know Call Lightning is iconic, but upcasting moonbeam is *nearly* as good. Same damage (using the same level slot), a worse save (con vs dex, though dex is probably high on many monsters too) and the damage is on the start of their turn instead of during yours (which only matters if they can move out of the area during another creature's turn). You also need a pretty big room for Call Lightning. The other advantage is that you have the option to use 2nd level slots on moonbeam.
Anyway, my point here is that I'd only choose one, and of the two I like moonbeam.
Just a thing about moonbeam, casting it on an enemy doesn't damage it until it's their turn.
IE it doesn't enter the spells area when YOU cast it.
Yeah, but unless they can move outside of their turn, they will start there. *And* as someone else pointed out, if they happen to enter it they take damage. CL doesn't persist as an obstacle.
Yeah, we played it wrong the first times is all and I know a lot of people thought it did damage on hit first.
Things with legendary move actions practically make it useless... Now of course most creatures can't do that. Either way it made the spell worse for me tbh
Yeah, but unless they can move outside of their turn, they will start there. *And* as someone else pointed out, if they happen to enter it they take damage. CL doesn't persist as an obstacle.
Forced Movement of any kind wouldn't trigger it. Nor would it trigger spike growth. Forced movement is basically a way to get around such abilities by RaW. I've used things like Grasping vine to pull party members from such area's before because of it. Movement triggering abilities only work on area's they willingly move into or out of. Same with AoO's. Forced movement won't trigger them. Won't trigger readied actions either by RaW.
Yeah, but unless they can move outside of their turn, they will start there. *And* as someone else pointed out, if they happen to enter it they take damage. CL doesn't persist as an obstacle.
Forced Movement of any kind wouldn't trigger it. Nor would it trigger spike growth. Forced movement is basically a way to get around such abilities by RaW. I've used things like Grasping vine to pull party members from such area's before because of it. Movement triggering abilities only work on area's they willingly move into or out of. Same with AoO's. Forced movement won't trigger them. Won't trigger readied actions either by RaW.
Ah, that is one way you could play it, but I don’t think that’s how it is intended. There is a SAC entry on this exact topic in case you need it, but entering an area means just that. When you enter the moonbeam, you take damage. In fact, it is only the special exclusion in the opportunity attack rule language that prevents forced movement from working for them. No such rule exists for spell areas or most other effects.
Yeah.. I am 100% sure that by RAW, the damage for Moon Beam (and Spike Growth) trigger from forced movement... you might be thinking of Opportunity Attacks, which dont trigger on Forced Movement. The wording for almost all of these concentration type spells is Enters am area on "A" turn... not necessarily the Creatures turn
In practice, on the same round
A PC who has a spell that can pull a creature 15 feet can pull a creature all the way through the 10 foot cylinder of moon beam (assuming they started outside), causing them to take damage then they they take damage
PC #2 has the ability to push a creature back into the Moon Beam on their turn, they take damage again
The character now starts in Moon Beam, and takes damage a 3rd time on that round.
By RAW, this is legit
This is one of the reasons that Spike Growth is amazingly useful, especially since it does not have a saving throw for damage
Yeah, plus there might be some neat push pull shenanigans you can get into with moonbeam, though those might also be better served with spike growth, which is maybe a better 2nd level choice. Maybe even better than a summon beast in some of cases.
Personally my Druids considering SA or PB never have 20 Wis at level 10. A Non-human will get 2 ASI up to this point, and considering that Druid are pretty heavy at concentration I would never get ASI before "Resilient(CON) or War Caster". Been honest, as I see, lvl4 is a perfect moment to get one of those, even better than lvl1(Human).
At lvl8 is more understandable to go for the +1 WIS, but since starting with 17 WIS is really unlike considering that most races give, at best, get +1 on WIS you just can't get a "Half-Feat" like Fey Touched. So, again, personally I prefer a full feat like 'Luck' than upgrading my wisdom from 16 to 18. Although at this level I complete understand who prefer to get this +1 on WIS for augmenting some spell, skills as getting one more preparation.
OBS: I think the lvl8 choice will be heavy on PlayerStyle. If you look into my list you see that WIS wouldn't impact that much on my "supportive" way. AMOF from my 13 spells 4 would have any benefit from the extra 1 WIS, and from this 4, two will have really few impact from this Wis increase.
So, I don't think +1 WIS would be better than a feet on lvl8.
I really like the Summon Beast spell, but unlike Conjure Animals which can provide multiple creature on the field, I feel a single summon creature with mediocore HP is more dependent on the party composition.
As for taking concentration and/or Warcaster first before maxing wisdom?? To each and his own. I agree that concentration is very important, but not sure if I would prioritize that over the actual Spell DC or Spell Attack Roll first. You also get more spells to prepare with a higher wisdom, which helps with the above spell list. But, everyone has their own playstyle :-D
Most of this depends on party composition ie. if there is a wizard they will be the main ritual caster for the group. Combat is either trying to land a good Faerie Fire or Summon Beast and then if any emergency healing is required you've got Polymorph. I'd pretty much rely on Wildshape for exploration although I like Detect Magic and Pass without Trace lending a hand. Finally Enhance Ability and Speak with Animals have to do some pretty heavy lifting in the social pillar.
1st: Detect Magic, Faerie Fire, Goodberry & Speak with Animals
2nd: Enhance Ability, Lesser Restoration, Pass without Trace & Summon Beast
3rd: Aura of Vitality, Dispel Magic, Revivify
4th: Polymorph
5th: Greater Restoration
Just a thing about moonbeam, casting it on an enemy doesn't damage it until it's their turn.
IE it doesn't enter the spells area when YOU cast it.
Yeah, but unless they can move outside of their turn, they will start there. *And* as someone else pointed out, if they happen to enter it they take damage. CL doesn't persist as an obstacle.
Yeah, we played it wrong the first times is all and I know a lot of people thought it did damage on hit first.
Things with legendary move actions practically make it useless... Now of course most creatures can't do that. Either way it made the spell worse for me tbh
Forced Movement of any kind wouldn't trigger it. Nor would it trigger spike growth. Forced movement is basically a way to get around such abilities by RaW. I've used things like Grasping vine to pull party members from such area's before because of it. Movement triggering abilities only work on area's they willingly move into or out of. Same with AoO's. Forced movement won't trigger them. Won't trigger readied actions either by RaW.
Ah, that is one way you could play it, but I don’t think that’s how it is intended. There is a SAC entry on this exact topic in case you need it, but entering an area means just that. When you enter the moonbeam, you take damage. In fact, it is only the special exclusion in the opportunity attack rule language that prevents forced movement from working for them. No such rule exists for spell areas or most other effects.
Yeah.. I am 100% sure that by RAW, the damage for Moon Beam (and Spike Growth) trigger from forced movement... you might be thinking of Opportunity Attacks, which dont trigger on Forced Movement. The wording for almost all of these concentration type spells is Enters am area on "A" turn... not necessarily the Creatures turn
In practice, on the same round
A PC who has a spell that can pull a creature 15 feet can pull a creature all the way through the 10 foot cylinder of moon beam (assuming they started outside), causing them to take damage then they they take damage
PC #2 has the ability to push a creature back into the Moon Beam on their turn, they take damage again
The character now starts in Moon Beam, and takes damage a 3rd time on that round.
By RAW, this is legit
This is one of the reasons that Spike Growth is amazingly useful, especially since it does not have a saving throw for damage