I would like to get your opinion on this homebrew optional class feature:
You are a monk who does not follow the normal way, you have decided to sacrifice your dexterity, speed and acrobatic movement, for true strength and stay in the melee where the real slaughter is.
Iron Body (Optional)
Starting at 2nd level, you decide to replace "Unarmored Movement" feature with this feature. You receive a +2 bonus to your natural defense while you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield. This bonus replaces your Dexterity modifier in the "Unarmored Defense" feature. This bonus increases when you reach certain monk levels. At 6th level the bonus is +3, at 10th level +4, at 14th level +5, and at 18th level +6.
Additionally, you gain the following benefits when unarmored and not wielding a shield:
Your monk class is no longer d8 hit points, but d10.
Now even heavy weapons are monk weapons for you.
You can no longer use the "Unarmored Movement" feature, instead you acquire the Iron Body feature:
Umm, I guess you wanted to say "Unarmored Defense"?. Anyways, the feature goes into a loop at the end, and the way it is worded it is not clear if your Wisdom is still added to your AC, if it is then the AC would be 10+Wis+IB bonus (so either 14 or 15 at lvl 2, which could ironically end up lower than using Dex), if it is not then your AC will only go from 12 at lvl 2 to 16 at lvl 18.
AC equals 10 + Iron Body bonus + your Wisdom modifier.
2nd level = 10+2(IB)+3(wis) = ~15
6th level = 10+3(IB)+3(wis) = ~16 (18 STR)
10th level = 10+4(IB)+3(wis) = ~17 (20STR)
14th level = 10+5(IB)+4(wis) = ~19 (20STR)
18th level = 10+6(IB)+5(wis) = ~21 (20STR)
Sure, by using dexterity the defense is more efficient and more quickly achieved. Here I am just proposing an alternative of the monk sacrificing its "Unarmored Movement," for a non-dexterity-based AC, but in return it can focus on strength.
It practically sacrifices its increases speed bonus and its ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids for longer life and tougher skin.
Unarmored Defense is the feature that has your AC calculation, Unarmored Movement only gives you additional movement speed, it has nothing to do with your AC. But even then, shouldn't it be a level 1 optional feature? Unarmored Defense comes at lvl 1, if Iron Body is at lvl 2 then you'd still need high Dex at lvl 1.
I like the idea for more options. My wish for monks in the next edition is to let people choose to be damage, control or more tanky rather then not having much choice and being nerfed becuase of it .If I focus fully on doing damage, I should be able to keep up to a fighter or be super close we are both warriors.
As has been repeatedly outlined here, you aren't nearly so crippled as people like to make out for a Monk. Using a quarterstaff for d8 damage, you're beating a TWF Fighter all the way through 1st and 2nd tier without even resorting to FoB, and by 3rd you have enough Ki that FoB is easy to spam and you're up to a d8 for Unarmed attacks. It literally takes a feat for a TWF Fighter to match your FoB output at that point. d10 and 12 weapons only constitute an average of +1 or 2 additional damage per roll. Action Surge is not really compelling argument, because that's once per SR until level 17, and FoB pretty well matches it, particularly when there's multiple encounters per SR. Yes, if you take the very broken GWM/PAM combo a Fighter can get a decent lead, but that just means they need to dial those feats back a bit or you can just accept that optimizers will always find some broken combo that outpaces basic setups. Really all Monks need is a +X magic weapon for unarmed attacks, and there's already the Eldritch Claw Tattoo for a step in that direction.
Now, regarding the feature this post is focused on, I think it's kinda broken to have an Unarmored AC feature that can easily match and even start to beat out Heavy Armor like this. Tortles only get a fixed AC of 17 with the option to have a shield, and that's with them giving up the option to use magic armor altogether. Don't particularly care about Heavy Weapons one way or the other, and honestly the difference between a d8 and d10 hit die seems pretty minimal as well.
Unarmored Defense is the feature that has your AC calculation, Unarmored Movement only gives you additional movement speed, it has nothing to do with your AC. But even then, shouldn't it be a level 1 optional feature? Unarmored Defense comes at lvl 1, if Iron Body is at lvl 2 then you'd still need high Dex at lvl 1.
Although few really start at the 1st level, I agree with you that the defensive feature should already be present at the 1st level.
As far as movement is concerned, it is a typical power for skirmish combat and therefore not so useful throughout the fight for a pure melee warrior, maybe only at the beginning, but for that Step of the Wind is enough. If one were to create a strength-based monk, there must be something to sacrifice in order to replace them with the right atributes for melee combat, and since the monk sacrifices its dexterity it is therefore normal that it also sacrifices its movement speed and agility, this is to gain more hit points and thus better adapt to melee combat.
As has been repeatedly outlined here, you aren't nearly so crippled as people like to make out for a Monk. Using a quarterstaff for d8 damage, you're beating a TWF Fighter all the way through 1st and 2nd tier without even resorting to FoB, and by 3rd you have enough Ki that FoB is easy to spam and you're up to a d8 for Unarmed attacks. It literally takes a feat for a TWF Fighter to match your FoB output at that point. d10 and 12 weapons only constitute an average of +1 or 2 additional damage per roll. Action Surge is not really compelling argument, because that's once per SR until level 17, and FoB pretty well matches it, particularly when there's multiple encounters per SR. Yes, if you take the very broken GWM/PAM combo a Fighter can get a decent lead, but that just means they need to dial those feats back a bit or you can just accept that optimizers will always find some broken combo that outpaces basic setups. Really all Monks need is a +X magic weapon for unarmed attacks, and there's already the Eldritch Claw Tattoo for a step in that direction.
Now, regarding the feature this post is focused on, I think it's kinda broken to have an Unarmored AC feature that can easily match and even start to beat out Heavy Armor like this. Tortles only get a fixed AC of 17 with the option to have a shield, and that's with them giving up the option to use magic armor altogether. Don't particularly care about Heavy Weapons one way or the other, and honestly the difference between a d8 and d10 hit die seems pretty minimal as well.
So the most reasonable solution is to leave the option for the monk to use Light and medium armor with its martial arts, and create an optional feature to "Unarmored Movement," where the player has to choose between Unarmored Movement, or "Armor Toughness" (d10 hit points + heavy weapons - using force).
This solution would make the monk even + Multiple Ability-Score Dependent. Due that the armor requires a minimum of dexterity.
Perhaps special armor should be created for monks like the turtle armor.
Although few really start at the 1st level, I agree with you that the defensive feature should already be present at the 1st level.
As far as movement is concerned, it is a typical power for skirmish combat and therefore not so useful throughout the fight for a pure melee warrior, maybe only at the beginning, but for that Step of the Wind is enough. If one were to create a strength-based monk, there must be something to sacrifice in order to replace them with the right atributes for melee combat, and since the monk sacrifices its dexterity it is therefore normal that it also sacrifices its movement speed and agility, this is to gain more hit points and thus better adapt to melee combat.
Not really, Barbarians also get additional movement speed at lvl 5 (as an optional rule if I recall correctly) and they are THE melee class, and the reasoning is quite simple: 'Run fast so that you can dive head first into the thick of battle'. You don't need to sacrifice speed for strength, in fact you want to rush even more than the Dex monk.
Unarmored Defense is the feature that has your AC calculation, Unarmored Movement only gives you additional movement speed, it has nothing to do with your AC. But even then, shouldn't it be a level 1 optional feature? Unarmored Defense comes at lvl 1, if Iron Body is at lvl 2 then you'd still need high Dex at lvl 1.
Although few really start at the 1st level, I agree with you that the defensive feature should already be present at the 1st level.
As far as movement is concerned, it is a typical power for skirmish combat and therefore not so useful throughout the fight for a pure melee warrior, maybe only at the beginning, but for that Step of the Wind is enough. If one were to create a strength-based monk, there must be something to sacrifice in order to replace them with the right atributes for melee combat, and since the monk sacrifices its dexterity it is therefore normal that it also sacrifices its movement speed and agility, this is to gain more hit points and thus better adapt to melee combat.
As has been repeatedly outlined here, you aren't nearly so crippled as people like to make out for a Monk. Using a quarterstaff for d8 damage, you're beating a TWF Fighter all the way through 1st and 2nd tier without even resorting to FoB, and by 3rd you have enough Ki that FoB is easy to spam and you're up to a d8 for Unarmed attacks. It literally takes a feat for a TWF Fighter to match your FoB output at that point. d10 and 12 weapons only constitute an average of +1 or 2 additional damage per roll. Action Surge is not really compelling argument, because that's once per SR until level 17, and FoB pretty well matches it, particularly when there's multiple encounters per SR. Yes, if you take the very broken GWM/PAM combo a Fighter can get a decent lead, but that just means they need to dial those feats back a bit or you can just accept that optimizers will always find some broken combo that outpaces basic setups. Really all Monks need is a +X magic weapon for unarmed attacks, and there's already the Eldritch Claw Tattoo for a step in that direction.
Now, regarding the feature this post is focused on, I think it's kinda broken to have an Unarmored AC feature that can easily match and even start to beat out Heavy Armor like this. Tortles only get a fixed AC of 17 with the option to have a shield, and that's with them giving up the option to use magic armor altogether. Don't particularly care about Heavy Weapons one way or the other, and honestly the difference between a d8 and d10 hit die seems pretty minimal as well.
So the most reasonable solution is to leave the option for the monk to use Light and medium armor with its martial arts, and create an optional feature to "Unarmored Movement," where the player has to choose between Unarmored Movement, or "Armor Toughness" (d10 hit points + heavy weapons - using force).
This solution would make the monk even + Multiple Ability-Score Dependent. Due that the armor requires a minimum of dexterity.
Perhaps special armor should be created for monks like the turtle armor.
I mean, by this point you're basically just playing a Fighter with the Unarmed Fighting Style, so why reinvent the wheel?
More options are always welcome . that's what is part of what is lacking in 5es monk along with weaker features. Buffs are needed. if anything the fighter has taken too much from the monk not the other way around. Action surge is basically a better version of flurry.A fighter should not be attacking more then a monk period.
More options are always welcome . that's what is part of what is lacking in 5es monk along with weaker features. Buffs are needed. if anything the fighter has taken too much from the monk not the other way around. Action surge is basically a better version of flurry.A fighter should not be attacking more then a monk period.
When you've literally described another class, the options are just redundant. And, regardless, a class is at least partially defined by what they cannot do as well as what they can. Also, Action Surge is objectively not better than Flurry. You can use it once per fight unless you've hit tier 4 at best. Flurry is objectively the better option for making attacks.
Action Surge is definitely not better than FoB, but I must say that it makes a good impression in the player's imagination. However, an extra attack in the action is definitely better than an unarmed bonus attack that requires resources, and the fighter gets two more than the other warrior classes. But this is not the theme.
The basic idea is to be able to create a character similar to one's own fantasy concept. Who we want to play, how our avatar should fight. If we can't even do that, it's too bad. I've heard a lot of people complain about why there are so many limitations of monk customization, and I find that it's actually true. We talk about the limitation of fighting without armor, with limited weapons, with prefixed ability scores, with magic items almost non-existent, with feats obligatory to be able to use the monk's movement effectively, and obvious dependence on resources. I understand that its inspirational design was taken from the image of an ascetic, and thus a person who renounces material goods, but here we are talking about complete enchainment.
So I set out to create a monk class variant that would satisfy me. The ideas I propose are part of inspirational points that could also fit the original monk class, but in principle they are designed for my homenbrew variant. https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Q1InKmgSysI2
What I mean is that the monk has too many limitations, and I find it a shame to limit it so much. Only, in the case of the other classes it is possible to deviate slightly from the predetermined design of the class itself.
Every class is quite free concerning choices, such as melee or ranged combat, a greater choice of other classes in (skills, spells, feats), or choice of weapons (even if they don't have the Proficiencies they can take it), or fighting with armor or without, in this edition even wizards and sorcerer can use one if they want. Each class also has powers that are not strongly tied to resources and in some cases try to limit and detach themselves from this dependence (cantrip, Improved Divine Smite, Eldritch Invocations, Spell Mastery, Signature Spells).
No other class has limitations like the monk. I thought all these limitations meant an advantage elsewhere, but it seems not, it's just limited. I also think that every class should have its strengths as well as its weaknesses.
From my understanding, the monk should be a warrior using its martial arts that controls the combat zone by imposing conditions on its enemies and be supportive of the group. Only in the master class there is only the stunning strike. The battle master is the subclass that angers me the most, because it represents the ideal monk for me, that subclass seems stolen from the monk and repurposed for the fighter.
But shouldn't that limit it to just dexterity, to no armor, to just the stunning strike, to having every power limited by ki points, ....
it is when you take into account the fighter can do the same number of attacks for free without ki at high level and then double it then ya. id say its better.
your arguing class identity ace, your going to lose that one flurry of blows and monks having the most attacks is seen throughout fiction. warriors can use magic weapons to better effect but should hit harder per attack rather then having the same atks no cost. I dont care if its at only level 20 . people say the same for moon druid which is only op at 2 and 20 didn't change the fact they tried to nerf it . we need to bring the warriors in line with each other better.
Without calculating that at 11th level the fighter can make the same number of attacks with the right feats or fighting styles. Let's also not forget synergy with magical weapons (ex: Flame Tongue) and attacks part of the primary action. When have they ever created magical enhancements for the monk's unarmed strikes with similar power that can also be used in its bonus action?
I would like to get your opinion on this homebrew optional class feature:
You are a monk who does not follow the normal way, you have decided to sacrifice your dexterity, speed and acrobatic movement, for true strength and stay in the melee where the real slaughter is.
Iron Body (Optional)
Starting at 2nd level, you decide to replace "Unarmored Movement" feature with this feature. You receive a +2 bonus to your natural defense while you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield. This bonus replaces your Dexterity modifier in the "Unarmored Defense" feature. This bonus increases when you reach certain monk levels. At 6th level the bonus is +3, at 10th level +4, at 14th level +5, and at 18th level +6.
Additionally, you gain the following benefits when unarmored and not wielding a shield:
Your monk class is no longer d8 hit points, but d10.
Now even heavy weapons are monk weapons for you.
You can no longer use the "Unarmored Movement" feature, instead you acquire the Iron Body feature:
It's interesting, but I feel it has a few problems.
First, having to maintain two different HP totals for every level. What happens if you are desperate and pick up a shield or put on magic armor? Maybe you're disguised as a guard to infiltrate a location wearing guard's armor? What's your HP? Did you roll d8's and d10's and record all of those rolls so you can alter your HP with or without these items?
No need to give up unarmored movement. I see what you are getting at, but I don't see speed necessarily as a function of Dexterity (the best slight of hand street magicians or Circ Du Soleil performers doesn't make them the best sprinters). Why not keep it but make an optional Iron Body feature at 1st level that just replaces Unarmed Defense's AC Calculation with either your calculation (10+WIS+IB) or just replace Dex with Str for AC (10+WIS+STR) and be done with it.
I'm on the fence with the Heavy Weapon Proficiency, but that's just me.
I would like to get your opinion on this homebrew optional class feature:
You are a monk who does not follow the normal way, you have decided to sacrifice your dexterity, speed and acrobatic movement, for true strength and stay in the melee where the real slaughter is.
Iron Body (Optional)
Starting at 2nd level, you decide to replace "Unarmored Movement" feature with this feature. You receive a +2 bonus to your natural defense while you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield. This bonus replaces your Dexterity modifier in the "Unarmored Defense" feature. This bonus increases when you reach certain monk levels. At 6th level the bonus is +3, at 10th level +4, at 14th level +5, and at 18th level +6.
Additionally, you gain the following benefits when unarmored and not wielding a shield:
Your monk class is no longer d8 hit points, but d10.
Now even heavy weapons are monk weapons for you.
You can no longer use the "Unarmored Movement" feature, instead you acquire the Iron Body feature:
It's interesting, but I feel it has a few problems.
First, having to maintain two different HP totals for every level. What happens if you are desperate and pick up a shield or put on magic armor? Maybe you're disguised as a guard to infiltrate a location wearing guard's armor? What's your HP? Did you roll d8's and d10's and record all of those rolls so you can alter your HP with or without these items?
No need to give up unarmored movement. I see what you are getting at, but I don't see speed necessarily as a function of Dexterity (the best slight of hand street magicians or Circ Du Soleil performers doesn't make them the best sprinters). Why not keep it but make an optional Iron Body feature at 1st level that just replaces Unarmed Defense's AC Calculation with either your calculation (10+WIS+IB) or just replace Dex with Str for AC (10+WIS+STR) and be done with it.
I'm on the fence with the Heavy Weapon Proficiency, but that's just me.
Yes, I hadn't thought about the life calculation problem, but the idea was that after making the "Iron Body" feature choice, the monk's hit points would change permanently and the "Unarmored Movement" feature would be reclusive forever (a kind of class crossroads).
Effectively this feature would have made more sense at 1st level. The problem is giving away natural armor at 1st level wouldn't that be too much?
As for AC (10+WIS+STR) it would be a very interesting unarmed defense for multiclassing, but that is the minor problem. The biggest problem is to snatch the Dexterity from the armor, which has always been an immovable point. But actually that's what I wanted to do as well by replacing it with IB, but without using another ability score and evolves only by leveling up as a monk.
I may have found a simpler solution. (maybe)
If we were to remove some of the monk constraints in the Martial Arts feature and change the DC of the ki features, we should make it possible to make monks in base strength that use armor, and also simplify the use of monk features for multiclasses. Players who want to make a monk in base strength will be able to give up wisdom in order to split their ability score between dexterity and constitution.
The problem is effectively the loss of unarmored movement and even more serious, the monk's trait of using his wisdom to battle. So I don't think it's a definite idea, but simply an option. Perhaps the monk could have a ki feature that makes ki armor (similar to mage armor)
Interest of this option is that the concept of a monk weapon would no longer exist, but simply if it is a heavy weapon it is a must to use the strength, while the rest of the martial weapons, it would be enough to have the proficiency to use them.
Martial Arts
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes. You gain the following benefits when you aren't wielding a shield:
When unarmored, you can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and weapons that lack the heavy and special properties.
Once per turn, when you hit a creature with an unarmed strike or a weapon, you can move it 5 feet to an unoccupied space. You cannot push opponents two sizes larger than you, but you can use the rebound to move 5 feet away without provoking attacks of opportunity.
You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or your weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike, or a weapon on your turn, or you use a monk feature that use ki points, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, or you cast a spell or a feature that use Ki points, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn.
Ki save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity or Wisdom modifier (your choice)
Ki Armor. As an action, a protective force of ki surrounds you for 8 hours. If you aren't wearing armor, your base AC becomes 13 + your Wisdom modifier. The protective ki force ends if you wear armor or choose to remove it as an action. (1ki point)
maybe they could just have your strength equal your Dex when not armored.
That could cause issues elsewhere. It would have to be strictly defined so you don’t get the equivalent of a free ASI on STR. So if I dump STR and max DEX and WIS (for DC’s) I could basically at level 1, with a half feat, 18 DEX, 16 WIS, “18” (8)STR.
I would like to get your opinion on this homebrew optional class feature:
You are a monk who does not follow the normal way, you have decided to sacrifice your dexterity, speed and acrobatic movement, for true strength and stay in the melee where the real slaughter is.
Iron Body (Optional)
Starting at 2nd level, you decide to replace "Unarmored Movement" feature with this feature. You receive a +2 bonus to your natural defense while you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield. This bonus replaces your Dexterity modifier in the "Unarmored Defense" feature. This bonus increases when you reach certain monk levels. At 6th level the bonus is +3, at 10th level +4, at 14th level +5, and at 18th level +6.
Additionally, you gain the following benefits when unarmored and not wielding a shield:
Your monk class is no longer d8 hit points, but d10.
Now even heavy weapons are monk weapons for you.
You can no longer use the "Unarmored Movement" feature, instead you acquire the Iron Body feature:
It's interesting, but I feel it has a few problems.
First, having to maintain two different HP totals for every level. What happens if you are desperate and pick up a shield or put on magic armor? Maybe you're disguised as a guard to infiltrate a location wearing guard's armor? What's your HP? Did you roll d8's and d10's and record all of those rolls so you can alter your HP with or without these items?
No need to give up unarmored movement. I see what you are getting at, but I don't see speed necessarily as a function of Dexterity (the best slight of hand street magicians or Circ Du Soleil performers doesn't make them the best sprinters). Why not keep it but make an optional Iron Body feature at 1st level that just replaces Unarmed Defense's AC Calculation with either your calculation (10+WIS+IB) or just replace Dex with Str for AC (10+WIS+STR) and be done with it.
I'm on the fence with the Heavy Weapon Proficiency, but that's just me.
Yes, I hadn't thought about the life calculation problem, but the idea was that after making the "Iron Body" feature choice, the monk's hit points would change permanently and the "Unarmored Movement" feature would be reclusive forever (a kind of class crossroads).
Effectively this feature would have made more sense at 1st level. The problem is giving away natural armor at 1st level wouldn't that be too much?
As for AC (10+WIS+STR) it would be a very interesting unarmed defense for multiclassing, but that is the minor problem. The biggest problem is to snatch the Dexterity from the armor, which has always been an immovable point. But actually that's what I wanted to do as well by replacing it with IB, but without using another ability score and evolves only by leveling up as a monk.
I may have found a simpler solution. (maybe)
If we were to remove some of the monk constraints in the Martial Arts feature and change the DC of the ki features, we should make it possible to make monks in base strength that use armor, and also simplify the use of monk features for multiclasses. Players who want to make a monk in base strength will be able to give up wisdom in order to split their ability score between dexterity and constitution.
The problem is effectively the loss of unarmored movement and even more serious, the monk's trait of using his wisdom to battle. So I don't think it's a definite idea, but simply an option. Perhaps the monk could have a ki feature that makes ki armor (similar to mage armor)
Interest of this option is that the concept of a monk weapon would no longer exist, but simply if it is a heavy weapon it is a must to use the strength, while the rest of the martial weapons, it would be enough to have the proficiency to use them.
Martial Arts
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes. You gain the following benefits when you aren't wielding a shield:
When unarmored, you can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and weapons that lack the heavy and special properties.
Once per turn, when you hit a creature with an unarmed strike or a weapon, you can move it 5 feet to an unoccupied space. You cannot push opponents two sizes larger than you, but you can use the rebound to move 5 feet away without provoking attacks of opportunity.
You can roll a d6 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or your weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike, or a weapon on your turn, or you use a monk feature that use ki points, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, or you cast a spell or a feature that use Ki points, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn.
Ki save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity or Wisdom modifier (your choice)
Ki Armor. As an action, a protective force of ki surrounds you for 8 hours. If you aren't wearing armor, your base AC becomes 13 + your Wisdom modifier. The protective ki force ends if you wear armor or choose to remove it as an action. (1ki point)
I’m not sure if armor is the way to go. Might be good for a subclass idea.
Looking back I completely missed your intent on removing Unarmored Movement with IB. With IB better AC scaling there has to be a drawback otherwise every monk would use it, unless maybe those multiclassing.
But I’m not sure if that is a big enough drawback especially since monks have BA dash if they need to get in the fight quicker. And some don’t see the extra movement as being that important. Just depends on the table. If most of your fights are in dungeons or interiors the extra movement can be less important.
Plus you get heavy weapons on top of that. That is a pretty big boost (better AC and Heavy weapons) for losing the extra movement including running up walls and liquids. Guess it depends on the player how much they value the Unarmored Movement.
With the IB AC calculation it also benefits Astral Monks more as they can make their attacks with WIS with the Astral Arms. plus they can have reach weapons (because of heavy weapon proficiencies) and attack with a Glaive as attack action then arms for BA or FoB all from a safer range. Compared to other subclasses.
If IB scaled capping at +5 instead of +6 it would allow either STR/WIS builds or DEX/WIS builds with a Heavy Weapon vs Unarmored Movement choice to make.
I would like to get your opinion on this homebrew optional class feature:
You are a monk who does not follow the normal way, you have decided to sacrifice your dexterity, speed and acrobatic movement, for true strength and stay in the melee where the real slaughter is.
Iron Body (Optional)
Starting at 2nd level, you decide to replace "Unarmored Movement" feature with this feature. You receive a +2 bonus to your natural defense while you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield. This bonus replaces your Dexterity modifier in the "Unarmored Defense" feature. This bonus increases when you reach certain monk levels. At 6th level the bonus is +3, at 10th level +4, at 14th level +5, and at 18th level +6.
Additionally, you gain the following benefits when unarmored and not wielding a shield:
Umm, I guess you wanted to say "Unarmored Defense"?. Anyways, the feature goes into a loop at the end, and the way it is worded it is not clear if your Wisdom is still added to your AC, if it is then the AC would be 10+Wis+IB bonus (so either 14 or 15 at lvl 2, which could ironically end up lower than using Dex), if it is not then your AC will only go from 12 at lvl 2 to 16 at lvl 18.
No, this feature replaces "Unarmored Movement."
AC equals 10 + Iron Body bonus + your Wisdom modifier.
Sure, by using dexterity the defense is more efficient and more quickly achieved. Here I am just proposing an alternative of the monk sacrificing its "Unarmored Movement," for a non-dexterity-based AC, but in return it can focus on strength.
It practically sacrifices its increases speed bonus and its ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids for longer life and tougher skin.
Unarmored Defense is the feature that has your AC calculation, Unarmored Movement only gives you additional movement speed, it has nothing to do with your AC. But even then, shouldn't it be a level 1 optional feature? Unarmored Defense comes at lvl 1, if Iron Body is at lvl 2 then you'd still need high Dex at lvl 1.
I like the idea for more options. My wish for monks in the next edition is to let people choose to be damage, control or more tanky rather then not having much choice and being nerfed becuase of it .If I focus fully on doing damage, I should be able to keep up to a fighter or be super close we are both warriors.
As has been repeatedly outlined here, you aren't nearly so crippled as people like to make out for a Monk. Using a quarterstaff for d8 damage, you're beating a TWF Fighter all the way through 1st and 2nd tier without even resorting to FoB, and by 3rd you have enough Ki that FoB is easy to spam and you're up to a d8 for Unarmed attacks. It literally takes a feat for a TWF Fighter to match your FoB output at that point. d10 and 12 weapons only constitute an average of +1 or 2 additional damage per roll. Action Surge is not really compelling argument, because that's once per SR until level 17, and FoB pretty well matches it, particularly when there's multiple encounters per SR. Yes, if you take the very broken GWM/PAM combo a Fighter can get a decent lead, but that just means they need to dial those feats back a bit or you can just accept that optimizers will always find some broken combo that outpaces basic setups. Really all Monks need is a +X magic weapon for unarmed attacks, and there's already the Eldritch Claw Tattoo for a step in that direction.
Now, regarding the feature this post is focused on, I think it's kinda broken to have an Unarmored AC feature that can easily match and even start to beat out Heavy Armor like this. Tortles only get a fixed AC of 17 with the option to have a shield, and that's with them giving up the option to use magic armor altogether. Don't particularly care about Heavy Weapons one way or the other, and honestly the difference between a d8 and d10 hit die seems pretty minimal as well.
Although few really start at the 1st level, I agree with you that the defensive feature should already be present at the 1st level.
As far as movement is concerned, it is a typical power for skirmish combat and therefore not so useful throughout the fight for a pure melee warrior, maybe only at the beginning, but for that Step of the Wind is enough. If one were to create a strength-based monk, there must be something to sacrifice in order to replace them with the right atributes for melee combat, and since the monk sacrifices its dexterity it is therefore normal that it also sacrifices its movement speed and agility, this is to gain more hit points and thus better adapt to melee combat.
So the most reasonable solution is to leave the option for the monk to use Light and medium armor with its martial arts, and create an optional feature to "Unarmored Movement," where the player has to choose between Unarmored Movement, or "Armor Toughness" (d10 hit points + heavy weapons - using force).
This solution would make the monk even + Multiple Ability-Score Dependent. Due that the armor requires a minimum of dexterity.
Perhaps special armor should be created for monks like the turtle armor.
Not really, Barbarians also get additional movement speed at lvl 5 (as an optional rule if I recall correctly) and they are THE melee class, and the reasoning is quite simple: 'Run fast so that you can dive head first into the thick of battle'. You don't need to sacrifice speed for strength, in fact you want to rush even more than the Dex monk.
I mean, by this point you're basically just playing a Fighter with the Unarmed Fighting Style, so why reinvent the wheel?
More options are always welcome . that's what is part of what is lacking in 5es monk along with weaker features. Buffs are needed. if anything the fighter has taken too much from the monk not the other way around. Action surge is basically a better version of flurry.A fighter should not be attacking more then a monk period.
When you've literally described another class, the options are just redundant. And, regardless, a class is at least partially defined by what they cannot do as well as what they can. Also, Action Surge is objectively not better than Flurry. You can use it once per fight unless you've hit tier 4 at best. Flurry is objectively the better option for making attacks.
Action Surge is definitely not better than FoB, but I must say that it makes a good impression in the player's imagination. However, an extra attack in the action is definitely better than an unarmed bonus attack that requires resources, and the fighter gets two more than the other warrior classes. But this is not the theme.
The basic idea is to be able to create a character similar to one's own fantasy concept. Who we want to play, how our avatar should fight. If we can't even do that, it's too bad. I've heard a lot of people complain about why there are so many limitations of monk customization, and I find that it's actually true. We talk about the limitation of fighting without armor, with limited weapons, with prefixed ability scores, with magic items almost non-existent, with feats obligatory to be able to use the monk's movement effectively, and obvious dependence on resources. I understand that its inspirational design was taken from the image of an ascetic, and thus a person who renounces material goods, but here we are talking about complete enchainment.
So I set out to create a monk class variant that would satisfy me. The ideas I propose are part of inspirational points that could also fit the original monk class, but in principle they are designed for my homenbrew variant. https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Q1InKmgSysI2
What I mean is that the monk has too many limitations, and I find it a shame to limit it so much. Only, in the case of the other classes it is possible to deviate slightly from the predetermined design of the class itself.
Every class is quite free concerning choices, such as melee or ranged combat, a greater choice of other classes in (skills, spells, feats), or choice of weapons (even if they don't have the Proficiencies they can take it), or fighting with armor or without, in this edition even wizards and sorcerer can use one if they want. Each class also has powers that are not strongly tied to resources and in some cases try to limit and detach themselves from this dependence (cantrip, Improved Divine Smite, Eldritch Invocations, Spell Mastery, Signature Spells).
No other class has limitations like the monk. I thought all these limitations meant an advantage elsewhere, but it seems not, it's just limited. I also think that every class should have its strengths as well as its weaknesses.
From my understanding, the monk should be a warrior using its martial arts that controls the combat zone by imposing conditions on its enemies and be supportive of the group. Only in the master class there is only the stunning strike. The battle master is the subclass that angers me the most, because it represents the ideal monk for me, that subclass seems stolen from the monk and repurposed for the fighter.
But shouldn't that limit it to just dexterity, to no armor, to just the stunning strike, to having every power limited by ki points, ....
it is when you take into account the fighter can do the same number of attacks for free without ki at high level and then double it then ya. id say its better.
your arguing class identity ace, your going to lose that one flurry of blows and monks having the most attacks is seen throughout fiction. warriors can use magic weapons to better effect but should hit harder per attack rather then having the same atks no cost. I dont care if its at only level 20 . people say the same for moon druid which is only op at 2 and 20 didn't change the fact they tried to nerf it . we need to bring the warriors in line with each other better.
Without calculating that at 11th level the fighter can make the same number of attacks with the right feats or fighting styles. Let's also not forget synergy with magical weapons (ex: Flame Tongue) and attacks part of the primary action. When have they ever created magical enhancements for the monk's unarmed strikes with similar power that can also be used in its bonus action?
It's interesting, but I feel it has a few problems.
First, having to maintain two different HP totals for every level. What happens if you are desperate and pick up a shield or put on magic armor? Maybe you're disguised as a guard to infiltrate a location wearing guard's armor? What's your HP? Did you roll d8's and d10's and record all of those rolls so you can alter your HP with or without these items?
No need to give up unarmored movement. I see what you are getting at, but I don't see speed necessarily as a function of Dexterity (the best slight of hand street magicians or Circ Du Soleil performers doesn't make them the best sprinters). Why not keep it but make an optional Iron Body feature at 1st level that just replaces Unarmed Defense's AC Calculation with either your calculation (10+WIS+IB) or just replace Dex with Str for AC (10+WIS+STR) and be done with it.
I'm on the fence with the Heavy Weapon Proficiency, but that's just me.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Yes, I hadn't thought about the life calculation problem, but the idea was that after making the "Iron Body" feature choice, the monk's hit points would change permanently and the "Unarmored Movement" feature would be reclusive forever (a kind of class crossroads).
Effectively this feature would have made more sense at 1st level. The problem is giving away natural armor at 1st level wouldn't that be too much?
As for AC (10+WIS+STR) it would be a very interesting unarmed defense for multiclassing, but that is the minor problem. The biggest problem is to snatch the Dexterity from the armor, which has always been an immovable point. But actually that's what I wanted to do as well by replacing it with IB, but without using another ability score and evolves only by leveling up as a monk.
I may have found a simpler solution. (maybe)
If we were to remove some of the monk constraints in the Martial Arts feature and change the DC of the ki features, we should make it possible to make monks in base strength that use armor, and also simplify the use of monk features for multiclasses. Players who want to make a monk in base strength will be able to give up wisdom in order to split their ability score between dexterity and constitution.
The problem is effectively the loss of unarmored movement and even more serious, the monk's trait of using his wisdom to battle. So I don't think it's a definite idea, but simply an option. Perhaps the monk could have a ki feature that makes ki armor (similar to mage armor)
Interest of this option is that the concept of a monk weapon would no longer exist, but simply if it is a heavy weapon it is a must to use the strength, while the rest of the martial weapons, it would be enough to have the proficiency to use them.
Martial Arts
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes. You gain the following benefits when you aren't wielding a shield:
When unarmored, you can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and weapons that lack the heavy and special properties.
Once per turn, when you hit a creature with an unarmed strike or a weapon, you can move it 5 feet to an unoccupied space. You cannot push opponents two sizes larger than you, but you can use the rebound to move 5 feet away without provoking attacks of opportunity.You can roll a
d6in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or your weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike, or a weapon on your turn, or you use a monk feature that use ki points, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, or you cast a spell or a feature that use Ki points, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn.Ki save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity or Wisdom modifier (your choice)
Ki Armor. As an action, a protective force of ki surrounds you for 8 hours. If you aren't wearing armor, your base AC becomes 13 + your Wisdom modifier. The protective ki force ends if you wear armor or choose to remove it as an action. (1ki point)
maybe they could just have your strength equal your Dex when not armored.
That could cause issues elsewhere. It would have to be strictly defined so you don’t get the equivalent of a free ASI on STR. So if I dump STR and max DEX and WIS (for DC’s) I could basically at level 1, with a half feat, 18 DEX, 16 WIS, “18” (8)STR.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I’m not sure if armor is the way to go. Might be good for a subclass idea.
Looking back I completely missed your intent on removing Unarmored Movement with IB. With IB better AC scaling there has to be a drawback otherwise every monk would use it, unless maybe those multiclassing.
But I’m not sure if that is a big enough drawback especially since monks have BA dash if they need to get in the fight quicker. And some don’t see the extra movement as being that important. Just depends on the table. If most of your fights are in dungeons or interiors the extra movement can be less important.
Plus you get heavy weapons on top of that. That is a pretty big boost (better AC and Heavy weapons) for losing the extra movement including running up walls and liquids. Guess it depends on the player how much they value the Unarmored Movement.
With the IB AC calculation it also benefits Astral Monks more as they can make their attacks with WIS with the Astral Arms. plus they can have reach weapons (because of heavy weapon proficiencies) and attack with a Glaive as attack action then arms for BA or FoB all from a safer range. Compared to other subclasses.
If IB scaled capping at +5 instead of +6 it would allow either STR/WIS builds or DEX/WIS builds with a Heavy Weapon vs Unarmored Movement choice to make.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?