Any suggestions on how to deal with the heat metal spell as a lvl 7 metal wearing vengeance paladin?
Had a situation where an ambush encounter included a druid who used heat metal on me and then scampered away at max speed. I can see how to handily deal with this at level 9 with dispel magic and haste to run the druid down, but does anyone have a suggestion for before that?
In this situation I just ate the damage and used healing to keep me in the fight, but it used a lot of resources and not much I could do about the disadvantage.
Heat Metal is designed to be used to great effect against plate wearing fighters. If Dispel is off the table then you have no other options but to tough it out for the 1 minute duration (for a total of 20d8 fire damage and disadvantage on everything) or kill/damage the druid to break concentration.
Assuming this is an outdoor encounter, you could always hope on of those ranged people with a bow or the ability to call down fire from the heavens land a few hits on the druid and manage to break concentration. You can also hope the party rogue who has 50% more move speed is willing to run them down for you. like you said, dispel magic is an option past level 5, assuming you have someone that was willing to learn it. I also think that there is a common magic item that lets you doff armor with an action. A spell to help you deal with fire damage would help mitigate the problem as well.
The druid's range when it was cast was 60ft. Vengeance paladins have misty step always prepared. Should be able to close the gap and attack with smite, or just get to it and AoO with smite if it runs. In the ambush did the druid catch you by surprise? (Surprise condition) Also, javelins to break concentration. Disadvantage 30-120ft, but already at disadvantage anyway.
The druid's range when it was cast was 60ft. Vengeance paladins have misty step always prepared. Should be able to close the gap and attack with smite, or just get to it and AoO with smite if it runs. In the ambush did the druid catch you by surprise? (Surprise condition) Also, javelins to break concentration. Disadvantage 30-120ft, but already at disadvantage anyway.
You can move away 60 ft after casting the spell. Which means you can run past 120 ft after casting the spell. And Misty Step only works if you have the appropriate spell slots. Not to mention, since it takes a bonus action to activate, you can dash away.
Initial casting is an action, so standard move gets the druid 30ft plus the 60ft range if at the outer limit when cast. A paladin's move+dash+misty step closes the 90ft gap. There is also abjure enemy and hold person which is always prepared. Plus, unless it has been killed, a 7th level paladin should have their mount. Although not always prepared, command and compelled duel work to slow the druid down if they were taken that morning.
Yes, these require appropriate spell slots, but since the original question stated using haste and dispel magic, I assumed slots were available. If the scenario is being asked with no spell slots available and no channel divinity and no mount pre-summoned, there isn't much to do.
If you're in a campaign where this is a common thing your DM throws at you, look into getting cast off plate if possible. Can be taken off as an action. Or try to acquire a dispel magic scroll or two.
The druid got in a surprise round, 60ft range cast, then took off on a horse. Spell was upcast at level 3, so there wasn't much choice but to eat the 30d8 damage. Fortunately between lay on hands and 7 spell slots that's doable, but it took those resources.
As it stands, my mistake was in not having my steed with me, that seems like the only method to counter this particular trick if the DM tries it again for at least a couple more levels.
Ouch. In that scenario, even with your mount you might not have been able to catch him. Even if you got within 60ft, command might be the only option because abjure enemy reduces his speed not his mount's. Would definitely try to pick up a dispel magic scroll or two. Hopefully your DM doesn't stonewall you getting the scroll and then uses this on you over and over.
Always carry a crossbow/bow (long bow, if you can), if you don't have a Ranger/Caster for distance. It's a concentration spell, so you may be able to break that.
Side note, if they use it on your weapon, try impaling it in someone/thing and let go.
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DM: Are you sure?
Wizard: Yes. I cast the Wish spell and I wish that everybody loves me!
DM: You transform into an irresistible, magnificent feast. It was so great, all who participated in devouring you tell of the joy they felt with tears in their eyes and all who hear the tale only feel sorrow that they weren't there to eat.
The druid has to be within 60 ft of the target to use his bonus action to inflict additional damage after the initial cast. If he took off at max speed dashing on a horse, he was out of range of the spell after 1 round and could not use his bonus action to cause additional damage, he was still concentrating on the spell, but nothing would happen until you were within 60 feet again.
I’m sorry, where does it say that? If you cast create campfire and move out of range, it still burns things.
Read the spell.
"Until the spell ends, you can use a bonus action on each of your subsequent turns to cause this damage again." The druid needs to use their bonus action to apply the damage after the initial cast, that implies that the target must be in range of the spell to receive that damage, 60 ft.
No, I meant the fact that you had to be in range. That isn’t said and I don’t see it implied. If you cast witch bolt on someone, move out of range, you can still cause the damage. I don’t see where it is implied.
That is a poorly thought out and designed rule. IMO and puts entirely too much power into a 2nd level spell or concentration damaging spells in general.
I'll just ignore and continue on playing.
And to OP, find a new game, your DM is petty and singling you out.
Jeremy Crawford’s rulings are considered “official“ official but that doesn’t mean every DM has to follow them. AL DM’s may have to follow them, I really don’t know. Every other DM can decide for themselves. His rulings seem to be based on being consistent but not necessarily the best ruling for making the game fun to play. If you are the DM and you say that the bonus action must be made while within 60’, then that’s the way it is.
I try to think about how a spell would effect the world. If casters go around killing people indiscriminately with Heat Metal, they will be feared and probably hunted down and killed. Druids and bards will police the use of these spells so that innocent members of their groups don’t become targets of enraged knights and other heavy armor types. So in my world, if your druid goes around killing every knight he comes across, he will be hunted by both knights and druids. Good luck with that.
Hi folks,
Any suggestions on how to deal with the heat metal spell as a lvl 7 metal wearing vengeance paladin?
Had a situation where an ambush encounter included a druid who used heat metal on me and then scampered away at max speed. I can see how to handily deal with this at level 9 with dispel magic and haste to run the druid down, but does anyone have a suggestion for before that?
In this situation I just ate the damage and used healing to keep me in the fight, but it used a lot of resources and not much I could do about the disadvantage.
Heat Metal is designed to be used to great effect against plate wearing fighters. If Dispel is off the table then you have no other options but to tough it out for the 1 minute duration (for a total of 20d8 fire damage and disadvantage on everything) or kill/damage the druid to break concentration.
I am one with the Force. The Force is with me.
Assuming this is an outdoor encounter, you could always hope on of those ranged people with a bow or the ability to call down fire from the heavens land a few hits on the druid and manage to break concentration. You can also hope the party rogue who has 50% more move speed is willing to run them down for you. like you said, dispel magic is an option past level 5, assuming you have someone that was willing to learn it. I also think that there is a common magic item that lets you doff armor with an action. A spell to help you deal with fire damage would help mitigate the problem as well.
The druid's range when it was cast was 60ft. Vengeance paladins have misty step always prepared. Should be able to close the gap and attack with smite, or just get to it and AoO with smite if it runs. In the ambush did the druid catch you by surprise? (Surprise condition) Also, javelins to break concentration. Disadvantage 30-120ft, but already at disadvantage anyway.
If you are fully immersed in water you have resistance to fire damage. PHB p198. So go jump in a lake.
How many times will you have a big lake around? Chances are, none.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
You can move away 60 ft after casting the spell. Which means you can run past 120 ft after casting the spell. And Misty Step only works if you have the appropriate spell slots. Not to mention, since it takes a bonus action to activate, you can dash away.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
Initial casting is an action, so standard move gets the druid 30ft plus the 60ft range if at the outer limit when cast. A paladin's move+dash+misty step closes the 90ft gap. There is also abjure enemy and hold person which is always prepared. Plus, unless it has been killed, a 7th level paladin should have their mount. Although not always prepared, command and compelled duel work to slow the druid down if they were taken that morning.
Yes, these require appropriate spell slots, but since the original question stated using haste and dispel magic, I assumed slots were available. If the scenario is being asked with no spell slots available and no channel divinity and no mount pre-summoned, there isn't much to do.
If you're in a campaign where this is a common thing your DM throws at you, look into getting cast off plate if possible. Can be taken off as an action. Or try to acquire a dispel magic scroll or two.
The druid got in a surprise round, 60ft range cast, then took off on a horse. Spell was upcast at level 3, so there wasn't much choice but to eat the 30d8 damage. Fortunately between lay on hands and 7 spell slots that's doable, but it took those resources.
As it stands, my mistake was in not having my steed with me, that seems like the only method to counter this particular trick if the DM tries it again for at least a couple more levels.
Ouch. In that scenario, even with your mount you might not have been able to catch him. Even if you got within 60ft, command might be the only option because abjure enemy reduces his speed not his mount's. Would definitely try to pick up a dispel magic scroll or two. Hopefully your DM doesn't stonewall you getting the scroll and then uses this on you over and over.
Petition to bring back Ankheg Plate and other non-metal heavy armor. ;)
I am one with the Force. The Force is with me.
Use Cast-off Armor. best Item in the game. Makes you feel like Iron Man.
I stole my pfp from this person: https://mobile.twitter.com/xelart1/status/1177312449575432193
Always carry a crossbow/bow (long bow, if you can), if you don't have a Ranger/Caster for distance. It's a concentration spell, so you may be able to break that.
Side note, if they use it on your weapon, try impaling it in someone/thing and let go.
DM: Are you sure?
Wizard: Yes. I cast the Wish spell and I wish that everybody loves me!
DM: You transform into an irresistible, magnificent feast. It was so great, all who participated in devouring you tell of the joy they felt with tears in their eyes and all who hear the tale only feel sorrow that they weren't there to eat.
The druid has to be within 60 ft of the target to use his bonus action to inflict additional damage after the initial cast. If he took off at max speed dashing on a horse, he was out of range of the spell after 1 round and could not use his bonus action to cause additional damage, he was still concentrating on the spell, but nothing would happen until you were within 60 feet again.
I’m sorry, where does it say that? If you cast create campfire and move out of range, it still burns things.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
Read the spell.
"Until the spell ends, you can use a bonus action on each of your subsequent turns to cause this damage again." The druid needs to use their bonus action to apply the damage after the initial cast, that implies that the target must be in range of the spell to receive that damage, 60 ft.
This exact topic has been answered by Jeremy Crawford, and Noobiwan is incorrect in their reading of the rule.
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/694951421943255041?s=19
I am one with the Force. The Force is with me.
No, I meant the fact that you had to be in range. That isn’t said and I don’t see it implied. If you cast witch bolt on someone, move out of range, you can still cause the damage. I don’t see where it is implied.
Edit:sniped. Thanks Twooshort!
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
That is a poorly thought out and designed rule. IMO and puts entirely too much power into a 2nd level spell or concentration damaging spells in general.
I'll just ignore and continue on playing.
And to OP, find a new game, your DM is petty and singling you out.
Jeremy Crawford’s rulings are considered
“official“official but that doesn’t mean every DM has to follow them. AL DM’s may have to follow them, I really don’t know. Every other DM can decide for themselves. His rulings seem to be based on being consistent but not necessarily the best ruling for making the game fun to play. If you are the DM and you say that the bonus action must be made while within 60’, then that’s the way it is.I try to think about how a spell would effect the world. If casters go around killing people indiscriminately with Heat Metal, they will be feared and probably hunted down and killed. Druids and bards will police the use of these spells so that innocent members of their groups don’t become targets of enraged knights and other heavy armor types. So in my world, if your druid goes around killing every knight he comes across, he will be hunted by both knights and druids. Good luck with that.