A friend in a group made the suggestion that ghosts are able to see gloom stalkers in total darkness because they have the Etherial Sight ability, which allows them to see 60 ft into the material from the etherial plane and vice versa.
As I understand it, Etherial Sight is not a special type of vision, and creatures with that ability still rely on the types of vision available to them to see those 60 ft into the other plane. So in the case of ghosts, that have darkvision, they still can't see the gloom stalker ranger.
To that he replied that ghosts can see the "outline" of creatures on the other plane because of etherial sight.
You are correct. The Gloom Stalker's Umbral Sight makes a character invisible to creatures with darkvision looking at them in darkness, and there is nothing in a Ghost's Ethereal Sight to counteract that.
The Ethereal Sight ability says: "The ghost can see 60 feet into the Ethereal Plane when it is on the Material Plane, and vice versa." No mention of invisibility.
There may be some confusion because creatures on the Ethereal Plane are usually not visible to creatures on the Material Plane, so ethereal sight grants the Ghost the ability to see such creatures. However, this is not the same as seeing through invisibility from other effects.
if the ghost isn't reliant on darkvison, the trigger for umbral sight never happens. however if they don't have dark vison they would be at disadvantage or possibly blind to seeing you effectively giving you the same bonus as being invisible.
When a Gloom Stalker is not on the Ethereal plane, a Ghost's Ethereal Sight doesn't apply.
When a Gloom Stalker is in darkness, any creature with normal vision or darkvision cannot see him, including a ghost.
That may or may not be functionally true. but the ability clearly states Darkvision is what triggers invisibility. if the creature has no darkvision the ranger is not invisible. period. the ghost must then be able to see the ranger. ethereal sight has no affect on lighting. so lighting rules would apply.
The lighting rules say
Darkness creates a heavily obscured area. Characters face darkness outdoors at night (even most moonlit nights), within the confines of an unlit dungeon or a subterranean vault, or in an area of magical darkness.
A heavily obscured area--such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage--blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.
so the ranger isn't invisible but the ghost is blinded unless something removes that condition.
When a Gloom Stalker is not on the Ethereal plane, a Ghost's Ethereal Sight doesn't apply.
When a Gloom Stalker is in darkness, any creature with normal vision or darkvision cannot see him, including a ghost.
That may or may not be functionally true. but the ability clearly states Darkvision is what triggers invisibility. if the creature has no darkvision the ranger is not invisible. period. the ghost must then be able to see the ranger. ethereal sight has no affect on lighting. so lighting rules would apply.
It is functionally true.
If the Gloom Stalker is in darkness, light rules don't apply. So creatures with normal vision are blinded and its invisible to those with Darkvision.
It could still be perceived by other senses though, such as Truesight.
so the ranger isn't invisible but the ghost is blinded unless something removes that condition.
Wrong. A ghost in darkness rely on darkvision to see so it is not blinded to see anything in that heavily obscured area, but it doesn't see the Gloom Stalker as it is invisible to it.
In fact a ghost can see in darkness within 60 feet as if it was dim light so it's a lightly obscured area for it instead, which it is not blinded to see inside.
A friend in a group made the suggestion that ghosts are able to see gloom stalkers in total darkness because they have the Etherial Sight ability, which allows them to see 60 ft into the material from the etherial plane and vice versa.
As I understand it, Etherial Sight is not a special type of vision, and creatures with that ability still rely on the types of vision available to them to see those 60 ft into the other plane. So in the case of ghosts, that have darkvision, they still can't see the gloom stalker ranger.
To that he replied that ghosts can see the "outline" of creatures on the other plane because of etherial sight.
Any thoughts?
You are correct. The Gloom Stalker's Umbral Sight makes a character invisible to creatures with darkvision looking at them in darkness, and there is nothing in a Ghost's Ethereal Sight to counteract that.
The Ethereal Sight ability says: "The ghost can see 60 feet into the Ethereal Plane when it is on the Material Plane, and vice versa." No mention of invisibility.
There may be some confusion because creatures on the Ethereal Plane are usually not visible to creatures on the Material Plane, so ethereal sight grants the Ghost the ability to see such creatures. However, this is not the same as seeing through invisibility from other effects.
if the ghost isn't reliant on darkvison, the trigger for umbral sight never happens. however if they don't have dark vison they would be at disadvantage or possibly blind to seeing you effectively giving you the same bonus as being invisible.
When a Gloom Stalker is not on the Ethereal plane, a Ghost's Ethereal Sight doesn't apply.
When a Gloom Stalker is in darkness, any creature with normal vision or darkvision cannot see him, including a ghost.
That may or may not be functionally true. but the ability clearly states Darkvision is what triggers invisibility. if the creature has no darkvision the ranger is not invisible. period. the ghost must then be able to see the ranger. ethereal sight has no affect on lighting. so lighting rules would apply.
The lighting rules say
Darkness creates a heavily obscured area. Characters face darkness outdoors at night (even most moonlit nights), within the confines of an unlit dungeon or a subterranean vault, or in an area of magical darkness.
A heavily obscured area--such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage--blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.
so the ranger isn't invisible but the ghost is blinded unless something removes that condition.
It is functionally true.
If the Gloom Stalker is in darkness, light rules don't apply. So creatures with normal vision are blinded and its invisible to those with Darkvision.
It could still be perceived by other senses though, such as Truesight.
Wrong. A ghost in darkness rely on darkvision to see so it is not blinded to see anything in that heavily obscured area, but it doesn't see the Gloom Stalker as it is invisible to it.
In fact a ghost can see in darkness within 60 feet as if it was dim light so it's a lightly obscured area for it instead, which it is not blinded to see inside.
You are completely right. I don't know why I thought ghosts didn't have darkvison. entirely my bad and that is where the mistake originated from.
thank you for your replies, I believe the matter is settled :)