Ranger took two large hits in the 2024 design: 1. De-optimization of ranged combat: removal of sharpshooter/CBX damage combo 2. De-optimization of conjure spells
Note: Ranged combat's defensive optimization is still there and great, you still don't take much damage since you are not in melee. Multi target damage is still quite good and better than the other martials.
We talk a lot about the change from conjuring many critters to aura as a big deal, but an equally important problem is the duration reduction of Conjure Animals. With an hour of duration it was usable in multiple encounters. Now, at 10 minutes you can't reliably pre cast it and assure you will have it for a combat. Conjure Woodland Beings has the same problem. This is particularly a problem when you start doing spreadsheet math and can no longer assume having these higher level spells precast in battle. Your spreadsheet damage plummets as you spend 1 round getting them up. There are encounters where you can have them precast and when those happen its pretty awesome.
The most important house rule that would unlock the Ranger is making Hunter's Mark non concentration at 13th level instead of just not being able to be broken. Its what my feedback had in it during playtest, and its the biggest miss on the design.
Exactly house rule that at my table. Non concentration HM lvl 13 just give the boost needed. For best damage go 2 weapons fighting dex. Great weapon fighting hunter horde breaker with push mechanic also good with free attacks. If you want to go range war Cleric lvl for bonus actions attack are not bad... But range is now suboptimal, multiclass Rogue look the best actually... This said, 5 level ranger may be better than 5 level fighter to get to the vital 2 attacks round.
Dex. isn't any better than Str. for damage.
Strengh 2 weapons fighting??? Dex also boost ini, usually not bad.
I am not sure ranged combat is actually suboptimal... overall.
The damage is certainly lower, but the other advantages all still apply. You are still less likely to take damage at range. You are then still likely to not have your concentration broken at range. The Ranger spell list is certainly better fitting to a ranged build as well.
And is the damage really suboptimal? What if the melee ranger can't get into melee in turn 1? How often does that happen in a day? Take a 4 round combat add up the archer's damage all 4 rounds vs. the melee only getting 3. The archer is going to come out ahead. At least when I play it can be up to 50% fights that don't start in melee range.
Now apply the same logic to other classes like Paladin that don't have the Ranged spells. How good is their damage output if they can't get into melee?
I recently had a combat where the longbow ranger got 3 turns of combat extra against a dragon and in fact dropped it on the last attack. 5 turn combat and only 2 were in melee.
Ranger took two large hits in the 2024 design: 1. De-optimization of ranged combat: removal of sharpshooter/CBX damage combo 2. De-optimization of conjure spells
Note: Ranged combat's defensive optimization is still there and great, you still don't take much damage since you are not in melee. Multi target damage is still quite good and better than the other martials.
We talk a lot about the change from conjuring many critters to aura as a big deal, but an equally important problem is the duration reduction of Conjure Animals. With an hour of duration it was usable in multiple encounters. Now, at 10 minutes you can't reliably pre cast it and assure you will have it for a combat. Conjure Woodland Beings has the same problem. This is particularly a problem when you start doing spreadsheet math and can no longer assume having these higher level spells precast in battle. Your spreadsheet damage plummets as you spend 1 round getting them up. There are encounters where you can have them precast and when those happen its pretty awesome.
The most important house rule that would unlock the Ranger is making Hunter's Mark non concentration at 13th level instead of just not being able to be broken. Its what my feedback had in it during playtest, and its the biggest miss on the design.
Exactly house rule that at my table. Non concentration HM lvl 13 just give the boost needed. For best damage go 2 weapons fighting dex. Great weapon fighting hunter horde breaker with push mechanic also good with free attacks. If you want to go range war Cleric lvl for bonus actions attack are not bad... But range is now suboptimal, multiclass Rogue look the best actually... This said, 5 level ranger may be better than 5 level fighter to get to the vital 2 attacks round.
Dex. isn't any better than Str. for damage.
It's not any worse than str for two weapon fighting either. As far as raw damage goes with two weapon fighting, they are exactly equal. Dex is better for nearly everything other than damage though.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I am not sure ranged combat is actually suboptimal... overall.
The damage is certainly lower, but the other advantages all still apply. You are still less likely to take damage at range. You are then still likely to not have your concentration broken at range. The Ranger spell list is certainly better fitting to a ranged build as well.
And is the damage really suboptimal? What if the melee ranger can't get into melee in turn 1? How often does that happen in a day? Take a 4 round combat add up the archer's damage all 4 rounds vs. the melee only getting 3. The archer is going to come out ahead. At least when I play it can be up to 50% fights that don't start in melee range.
Now apply the same logic to other classes like Paladin that don't have the Ranged spells. How good is their damage output if they can't get into melee?
I recently had a combat where the longbow ranger got 3 turns of combat extra against a dragon and in fact dropped it on the last attack. 5 turn combat and only 2 were in melee.
One nasty way to make ranged ( sort of) really hurt foes - skip the archery all together and 2014 variant human with the magic nitrate - warlock then spell sniper at L4. You do have to boost charisma rather than have it be a dump stat but if your going fey wanderer you already have raised charisma. Now you still get 2 “ranged” attacks at L5 for a D10 not a D8 and a 240’ range ignoring half cover as well as being able to cast it in melee without disadvantage if you need to. At Level 11 you get 3 attacks and at L16 ( before the fighter) 4 attacks with it.
Yes.
I am not sure ranged combat is actually suboptimal... overall.
The damage is certainly lower, but the other advantages all still apply.
You are still less likely to take damage at range. You are then still likely to not have your concentration broken at range. The Ranger spell list is certainly better fitting to a ranged build as well.
And is the damage really suboptimal? What if the melee ranger can't get into melee in turn 1? How often does that happen in a day? Take a 4 round combat add up the archer's damage all 4 rounds vs. the melee only getting 3. The archer is going to come out ahead. At least when I play it can be up to 50% fights that don't start in melee range.
Now apply the same logic to other classes like Paladin that don't have the Ranged spells. How good is their damage output if they can't get into melee?
I recently had a combat where the longbow ranger got 3 turns of combat extra against a dragon and in fact dropped it on the last attack. 5 turn combat and only 2 were in melee.
It's not any worse than str for two weapon fighting either. As far as raw damage goes with two weapon fighting, they are exactly equal. Dex is better for nearly everything other than damage though.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Excellent points. 👏🏼👍🏼
One nasty way to make ranged ( sort of) really hurt foes - skip the archery all together and 2014 variant human with the magic nitrate - warlock then spell sniper at L4. You do have to boost charisma rather than have it be a dump stat but if your going fey wanderer you already have raised charisma. Now you still get 2 “ranged” attacks at L5 for a D10 not a D8 and a 240’ range ignoring half cover as well as being able to cast it in melee without disadvantage if you need to. At Level 11 you get 3 attacks and at L16 ( before the fighter) 4 attacks with it.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.