Hi, all. I just wanted to get some thoughts on one of my character builds. It’s a newly 5th-level AL character, so I’m at the point where I can shift things around if I want.
CURRENT BUILD
Half-orc rogue swashbuckler (4) / barbarian (1)
S:16D:16C:14I:9W:8C:14
Expertise in Acrobatics and Athletics
Fights with rapier + shield, or two short swords
AC: 16 if dual wielding, or 18 with shield (unarmored + cloak of protection)
Future levels: mainly Swashbuckler
The idea behind this build is that he channels his inner orc when he rages, riding the line between disciplined fighting technique and unbridled bloodlust.
However, the build is proving kind of limiting in terms of all the attributes it depends on, and I’m not sure how to grow the character in terms of ASIs. And I feel that bumping up DEX wastes the rage STR bonus.
One option here is to forget about ASIs and just take feats. Another is to switch out the Barbarian multiclass for something else that is less STR-focused. Here are some possibilities:
OPTION 1:
Half-orc rogue swashbuckler (4) / fighter (1)
S:14D:16C:14I:8W:12C:14
Expertise in Acrobatics and Athletics
Fights with rapier + shield, or two short swords
Fighting style either defensive or dual-wield
AC: 17 if dual wielding, 19 with shield (stud. leather + cloak of prot.; 18/20 with defensive fighting style)
Future levels: mainly Swashbuckler, probably another level of Fighter
OPTION 2:
Half-orc rogue swashbuckler (3) / paladin (2)
S:14D:14C:14I:8W:12C:14
Expertise in Acrobatics and Athletics
Fights with rapier + shield, or two short swords
Defensive fighting style
AC: 16 if dual wielding, 18 with shield (stud. leather + cloak of prot.; 17/19 with defensive fighting style)
Next level: Another level in Swashbuckler, bump up DEX to 16 for AC, attack bonuses
Future levels: mainly Swashbuckler?
Any thoughts on these builds? I confess that I don’t have a strong character vision in mind beyond a half-orc ex-pirate who’s showy, physical, skilled with a sword, and also a bit useful outside combat.
The interesting thing about sneak attack is it doesn't actually require you to use DEX as your mod. It just requires a finesse weapon. Meaning, you can use STR for sneak attack so long as it's a rapier, scimitar, etc.
I had a similar concept a while back. I went with a vHuman or dwarf in my concept, but I think orc would still work.
Main stats are Strength and Constitution. Secondary stats are Charisma. Dump stats - Int, Dex, Wis
Level Breakdown:
Rogue. Take Athletics instead of acrobatics, don't bother with stealth.
Fighter. Take defense fighting style. The 1 AC will be useful. Start wearing heavy armor and using a shield (or at least carrying one).
Rogue.
Rogue. Take Swashbuckler.
Rogue. Take a feat. If you went vHuman, take Heavy Armor Master. If you went Orc or anything else, take Sentinel. Sentinel should be the first feat you take for the concept to work.
Here is how the build works. You're the tank but a pretty high damage one. Your high Charisma will help with initiative (Swashbuckler - Rakish Audacity). Run into the fray. Position yourself next to as many enemies as possible if you have allies also in melee, otherwise just go stand next to the biggest baddy in the group. Bonus points if there are friends also in melee. The build works so that you are always taking the damage, and are not taking too much of it. If someone tries to disengage, they can't. They're stuck next to you. You'll basically always get sneak attack damage when you attack as a swashbuckler (unless you're the only melee against multiple melee opponents, but based on the rest of the group that seems unlikely). Also, if an enemy attacks anyone but you, you're going to get a free attack on them with sneak attack. If they attack you, you're pretty beafy and can take it. You have high armor class with heavy armor and a shield and high constitution for lots of hit points. When you do get heavy armor master, you're extremely tanky.
At level 5 and with Chain mail, shield, and defensive fighting style, your AC is 19. With 16 Con you have 45 HP. If they attack you, they'll find it difficult to hit you and when they do, you'll take less damage. With another level in Rogue, you can even use your reaction to halve the damage. If they attack someone that isn't you while you're next to them, you're going to get to attack using your reaction probably with sneak attack damage. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Scenario at level 5. Enemy attacks with +7 attack modifier and will deal 20 damage. The enemy swings for your friend the fighter with 15AC. Factoring in the odds that the enemy hits or crits the fighter, the enemy on average will deal about 11 damage to the fighter! Then, you get to do a reaction attack. You take a swing with your rapier, and again factoring in hit percentages and such, assuming an enemy AC of 15, you're going to on average deal 11 damage to that target. Now it's your turn. Again, you deal 11 average damage to the target. So in this scenario, the enemy did 11 damage to the friendly fighter and you did 22 damage in one round to the target! Next round, the enemy was like, shit that hurt. I'm going to instead attack that other guy. He swings at you, factoring in hit and crit percent as well as you using your reaction to halve the damage and subtract 3 with heavy armor master, on average the enemy deals… 3 damage. You laugh at the enemy because that's what swashbucklers do, and swing with your rapier dealing and average of 11 damage. In these 2 (averaged) rounds of combat, the fighter took 11 damage and with his great sword did about 30. The enemy did about 14 and took about 63. You took 3 damage and dealt 33.
This build definitely comes on quicker if you go with vHuman. If you go with Orc, you'll have to wait until level 9 for heavy weapon master.
Outside of combat, this allows you to be the "face" of the party with high charisma and you still are a skill monkey (although slightly less useful with only 10 dex).
I was looking forward to trying this build out but it's got a flaw: you don't get heavy armor proficiency when you multiclass into fighter. Just medium armor. Which means you need at least 14 Dex. That said, if you get a breastplate and take the defensive fighting style with a shield, you'll still end up with 19 AC.
I also really like taking this to higher levels with 3-5 in Fighter. 5 if you want extra attack, 3 for Battlemaster. The main reason is for Reposte. Just another way to weaponize your reaction.
I also really like taking this to higher levels with 3-5 in Fighter. 5 if you want extra attack, 3 for Battlemaster. The main reason is for Reposte. Just another way to weaponize your reaction.
Riposte on a Swashbuckler is extra sweet because not only does it fit the theme really well, but you can get another sneak attack (since it happens in your enemy's turn, not your own), and is generally more reliable than hoping enemies will trigger an attack of opportunity.
Personally I wouldn't shoot for heavy armour; if you're not going to be taking any levels in Barbarian then you can stick to the classic DEX focus, in which case light armour should work just fine combined with Uncanny Dodge/Evasion etc. (and you want good DEX for Evasion anyway).
It might be a little more dodgy than ragey, but you can play it off differently to how it actually works mechanically; i.e- you can flavour your Uncanny Dodge as taking the hits like you would with a Barbarian's Rage with the justification of "because Orc".
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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With Tasha's you also don't need to go 3 levels in Fighter for Riposte, you can just take the Superior Technique fighting style at lvl 1 (albeit for only 1 die per short rest). Most campaigns do not last nearly long enough to invest 3 levels into a multiclass, so this is, imo, a more useful build discussion than builds that assume you'll make it to level 20.
So the question is which fighting style is more useful: Defense (+1 AC) or Superior Technique - Riposte (for 1 extra sneak attack per short rest).
I don't know how AL works, so I'm not sure how free you are to change things, but Rogue/Barbarian doesn't really shine until Barb 2, when you can sneak attack at will. 3/2 in anything will mean giving up an ASI, which is a bit of a hard sell, but more to the point, that build is fundamentally based on murdering people with Strength - you need Dex to legally multiclass, but you use Strength for your melee swings, so you can combine Reckless Attack with Sneak Attack.
Your build is too MAD, and you're feeling the pinch. Can you change your statline, more than just by toggling the L4 ASI? Basically, Str16 Dex16 Con14 Cha14 is... bad. A Rogue/Barbarian should be dump-statting charisma, and any mix of Rogue with a class granting medium armor proficiency should generally aim for medium armor, meaning Dex should stop at 14 and the remaining stat points should go somewhere else. I can't really tell what statline constraints you have from your post, though. I did see you posted variants with a lot more Wisdom. Can you re-do from scratch? Can you use the Tasha's rule for assigning your racial stats as you please?
If you can re-do from scratch and you have access to Tasha's, so I can ignore stat constraints entirely, I think this build is more what you have in mind - with this build, your gleaming muscles are for show, not for work, and you wield your sword with style:
Half-orc rogue swashbuckler (4) / warlock (1)
S8 D14 C16 I8 W12 C16 (the W12 can be spread around S and I as well as fits your concept - since this is a half-orc, not a half-elf, I can't think of a more clever way to redistribute the stat points, especially since I'm not employing a +1 stat point feat of any kind; I put the points in Wisdom since Perception and Insight are so helpful. The build runs on Charisma and Constitution, and already has all the Dexterity it will ever need.)
Expertise: Persuasion and Deception (just convince people you're doing all your swordfighting with those gleaming muscles of yours)
ASI/Feat: War Caster (you can just take +2 Charisma if you'd rather)
Patron: Hexblade
Cantrips: Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade if AL lets you use War Caster to opportunity attack with them, despite the new wording in Tasha's. If it does not, swap Green Flame Blade for Mind Sliver, so you have a good spell for opportunity attacks; if your ASI was Charisma instead, make your own call between the two cantrips)
Spells: Hex
Now you have a Charisma-based swordsman running primarily off of Swashbuckler. There's absolutely no need for more Warlock levels.
We've got a swashbucker/barb in my current group and she obliterates things.
I wouldn't worry about bumping dex, in fact, I would switch your dex and con rolls. You need to use finesse weapons in order to get your sneak attack...you do not have to attack with dex using your finesse weapons. Just keep your str up, use a rapier or your two shortswords and go to town.
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At lv 20 I would aim for any rogue15/barbarian5. That way you get the extra attack from barb. Swashbuckler sort of dont get full utilization since barb can already sneak attack all the time though.
I also agree that at lv 5 I would start as 3rogue/barb2 as lv 2 barb is what gets you going. Use breastplate and aim for dex 14, and pump str/con.
Another reason Battlemaster is a great option is the Brace maneuver added in Tasha's. It lets you spend a superiority die to attack as a reaction when someone comes into your reach.
My Swashbuckler/Battlemaster that I use in AL is really fun to play. I run around the field like a DPS trauma surgeon helping where people need help.
Hi, all. I just wanted to get some thoughts on one of my character builds. It’s a newly 5th-level AL character, so I’m at the point where I can shift things around if I want.
CURRENT BUILD
The idea behind this build is that he channels his inner orc when he rages, riding the line between disciplined fighting technique and unbridled bloodlust.
However, the build is proving kind of limiting in terms of all the attributes it depends on, and I’m not sure how to grow the character in terms of ASIs. And I feel that bumping up DEX wastes the rage STR bonus.
One option here is to forget about ASIs and just take feats. Another is to switch out the Barbarian multiclass for something else that is less STR-focused. Here are some possibilities:
OPTION 1:
OPTION 2:
Any thoughts on these builds? I confess that I don’t have a strong character vision in mind beyond a half-orc ex-pirate who’s showy, physical, skilled with a sword, and also a bit useful outside combat.
Swashbuckler 17 fighter (battlemaster 3) is the way to go. You either go 1 level of fighter or 3 / 5. (Better for just 3)
The interesting thing about sneak attack is it doesn't actually require you to use DEX as your mod. It just requires a finesse weapon. Meaning, you can use STR for sneak attack so long as it's a rapier, scimitar, etc.
I had a similar concept a while back. I went with a vHuman or dwarf in my concept, but I think orc would still work.
Main stats are Strength and Constitution. Secondary stats are Charisma. Dump stats - Int, Dex, Wis
Level Breakdown:
Here is how the build works. You're the tank but a pretty high damage one. Your high Charisma will help with initiative (Swashbuckler - Rakish Audacity). Run into the fray. Position yourself next to as many enemies as possible if you have allies also in melee, otherwise just go stand next to the biggest baddy in the group. Bonus points if there are friends also in melee. The build works so that you are always taking the damage, and are not taking too much of it. If someone tries to disengage, they can't. They're stuck next to you. You'll basically always get sneak attack damage when you attack as a swashbuckler (unless you're the only melee against multiple melee opponents, but based on the rest of the group that seems unlikely). Also, if an enemy attacks anyone but you, you're going to get a free attack on them with sneak attack. If they attack you, you're pretty beafy and can take it. You have high armor class with heavy armor and a shield and high constitution for lots of hit points. When you do get heavy armor master, you're extremely tanky.
At level 5 and with Chain mail, shield, and defensive fighting style, your AC is 19. With 16 Con you have 45 HP. If they attack you, they'll find it difficult to hit you and when they do, you'll take less damage. With another level in Rogue, you can even use your reaction to halve the damage. If they attack someone that isn't you while you're next to them, you're going to get to attack using your reaction probably with sneak attack damage. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Scenario at level 5. Enemy attacks with +7 attack modifier and will deal 20 damage. The enemy swings for your friend the fighter with 15AC. Factoring in the odds that the enemy hits or crits the fighter, the enemy on average will deal about 11 damage to the fighter! Then, you get to do a reaction attack. You take a swing with your rapier, and again factoring in hit percentages and such, assuming an enemy AC of 15, you're going to on average deal 11 damage to that target. Now it's your turn. Again, you deal 11 average damage to the target. So in this scenario, the enemy did 11 damage to the friendly fighter and you did 22 damage in one round to the target! Next round, the enemy was like, shit that hurt. I'm going to instead attack that other guy. He swings at you, factoring in hit and crit percent as well as you using your reaction to halve the damage and subtract 3 with heavy armor master, on average the enemy deals… 3 damage. You laugh at the enemy because that's what swashbucklers do, and swing with your rapier dealing and average of 11 damage. In these 2 (averaged) rounds of combat, the fighter took 11 damage and with his great sword did about 30. The enemy did about 14 and took about 63. You took 3 damage and dealt 33.
This build definitely comes on quicker if you go with vHuman. If you go with Orc, you'll have to wait until level 9 for heavy weapon master.
Outside of combat, this allows you to be the "face" of the party with high charisma and you still are a skill monkey (although slightly less useful with only 10 dex).
I was looking forward to trying this build out but it's got a flaw: you don't get heavy armor proficiency when you multiclass into fighter. Just medium armor. Which means you need at least 14 Dex. That said, if you get a breastplate and take the defensive fighting style with a shield, you'll still end up with 19 AC.
Yeah mb you need to take level 1 as fighter.
I also really like taking this to higher levels with 3-5 in Fighter. 5 if you want extra attack, 3 for Battlemaster. The main reason is for Reposte. Just another way to weaponize your reaction.
Riposte on a Swashbuckler is extra sweet because not only does it fit the theme really well, but you can get another sneak attack (since it happens in your enemy's turn, not your own), and is generally more reliable than hoping enemies will trigger an attack of opportunity.
Personally I wouldn't shoot for heavy armour; if you're not going to be taking any levels in Barbarian then you can stick to the classic DEX focus, in which case light armour should work just fine combined with Uncanny Dodge/Evasion etc. (and you want good DEX for Evasion anyway).
It might be a little more dodgy than ragey, but you can play it off differently to how it actually works mechanically; i.e- you can flavour your Uncanny Dodge as taking the hits like you would with a Barbarian's Rage with the justification of "because Orc".
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
With Tasha's you also don't need to go 3 levels in Fighter for Riposte, you can just take the Superior Technique fighting style at lvl 1 (albeit for only 1 die per short rest). Most campaigns do not last nearly long enough to invest 3 levels into a multiclass, so this is, imo, a more useful build discussion than builds that assume you'll make it to level 20.
So the question is which fighting style is more useful: Defense (+1 AC) or Superior Technique - Riposte (for 1 extra sneak attack per short rest).
I don't know how AL works, so I'm not sure how free you are to change things, but Rogue/Barbarian doesn't really shine until Barb 2, when you can sneak attack at will. 3/2 in anything will mean giving up an ASI, which is a bit of a hard sell, but more to the point, that build is fundamentally based on murdering people with Strength - you need Dex to legally multiclass, but you use Strength for your melee swings, so you can combine Reckless Attack with Sneak Attack.
Your build is too MAD, and you're feeling the pinch. Can you change your statline, more than just by toggling the L4 ASI? Basically, Str16 Dex16 Con14 Cha14 is... bad. A Rogue/Barbarian should be dump-statting charisma, and any mix of Rogue with a class granting medium armor proficiency should generally aim for medium armor, meaning Dex should stop at 14 and the remaining stat points should go somewhere else. I can't really tell what statline constraints you have from your post, though. I did see you posted variants with a lot more Wisdom. Can you re-do from scratch? Can you use the Tasha's rule for assigning your racial stats as you please?
If you can re-do from scratch and you have access to Tasha's, so I can ignore stat constraints entirely, I think this build is more what you have in mind - with this build, your gleaming muscles are for show, not for work, and you wield your sword with style:
Now you have a Charisma-based swordsman running primarily off of Swashbuckler. There's absolutely no need for more Warlock levels.
We've got a swashbucker/barb in my current group and she obliterates things.
I wouldn't worry about bumping dex, in fact, I would switch your dex and con rolls. You need to use finesse weapons in order to get your sneak attack...you do not have to attack with dex using your finesse weapons. Just keep your str up, use a rapier or your two shortswords and go to town.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
At lv 20 I would aim for any rogue15/barbarian5. That way you get the extra attack from barb. Swashbuckler sort of dont get full utilization since barb can already sneak attack all the time though.
I also agree that at lv 5 I would start as 3rogue/barb2 as lv 2 barb is what gets you going. Use breastplate and aim for dex 14, and pump str/con.
Another reason Battlemaster is a great option is the Brace maneuver added in Tasha's. It lets you spend a superiority die to attack as a reaction when someone comes into your reach.
My Swashbuckler/Battlemaster that I use in AL is really fun to play. I run around the field like a DPS trauma surgeon helping where people need help.
https://ddb.ac/characters/18572383/k5yFE6