Hello! I'm currently planning for a sequel campaign and plan on building a shadow sorcerer who's backstory is that of an spy/assassin. He's a half drow so he gets some inherent casting that I feel would be useful and I plan on taking the shadow touched and either Telepathic or telekinetic feats depending on my ability score rolls.
The goal is for him to specialize in espionage, stealth and deceit, while still being able to pack a serious punch and/or be a potent debuffer.
I was thinking two easy picks would be 1-2 levels of hexblade or 3ish levels of Bard (either Eloquence or Whispers).
Any thoughts or alternatives on what has worked for folks? Would Rogue be a good multiclass for example? I've done some experimenting but it doesn't seem to mesh as well as the others.
You can get so much from just 3 levels in either bard or rogue. I believe that both can make for a good spy and deal decent damage.
Bard: From multiclassing into bard you gain prof in one skill of your choice. Then you get Expertise to make you super good with skills that are essential for a spy/assassin, such as Deception, Persuasion, Sleight of Hand, Stealth. You also get Jack of all Trades to improve your non prof skills (also boosting your Initiative since it is a skill check). When it comes to picking a college both Eloquence and Whispers are solid options. If you want to excel in social interaction then Eloquence for Silver TOngue. If you want to stick with the assassin theme then Whispers for Psychic Blades (it is a discount sneak attack feature) and Words of Terror can come in handy. You get utility spells like Charm Person, Invisibility, Disguise self. Plus you get to compine your metamagic and spells to possibly deal massive ammounts of damage (Quickened Hold Person and then Booming Blade plus Psychic Blades).
Rogue: as with bard from multiclassing into rogue you gain prof in one skill of your choice (kinda) and prof with thieves tools. You get Expertise as well. You also get Cunning Action that is very usefull in tight situations. For Subclass I can not give much intel since I have not played rogue that much but I believe Swashbuckler is one of the best picks for combat. Mastermind seems to be fitting with your general idea.
2-level dip: beguling influence, another invocation
3-level dip: pact of the talisman, trade out 2nd invocation for rebuke of the talisman
4-level dip: feat
2. Shadow Monk
3-level dip better AC, patient defense, step of wind, shadow arts
4-level dip: feat
3. Gloomstaker Ranger - maximize stealth ok in deciet
3-level dip gets medium armor, fighting style, dread ambusher, expertise in stealth, extra proficiency (deception if you don't have it) and guidance cantrip.
4-level dip, extra caster level and feat
4. Fey Wanderer Ranger - not quite as good as Gloomstalker in stealth but the best possible deciet
3-level dip gets medium armor fighting style, expertise in stealth 2 more proficiencies (deception and persuasion), + wisdom on all charisma checks and guidance cantrips.
4-level dip, extra caster level and feat
5. Fighter
1-level dip medium armor, superior technique fighting style with either ambush (for stealth) or commanding presence (for deciet)
2-level dip action surge
3-level dip battlemaster with both commanding presence and ambush and more dice.
Thank you all for your suggestions! Super helpful and have provided me some clarity in terms of how I’d like my sorcerer to progress. If anyone else has any suggestions on this or level breakdowns it’s all appreciated!
Hello! I'm currently planning for a sequel campaign and plan on building a shadow sorcerer who's backstory is that of an spy/assassin. He's a half drow so he gets some inherent casting that I feel would be useful and I plan on taking the shadow touched and either Telepathic or telekinetic feats depending on my ability score rolls.
The goal is for him to specialize in espionage, stealth and deceit, while still being able to pack a serious punch and/or be a potent debuffer.
I was thinking two easy picks would be 1-2 levels of hexblade or 3ish levels of Bard (either Eloquence or Whispers).
Any thoughts or alternatives on what has worked for folks? Would Rogue be a good multiclass for example? I've done some experimenting but it doesn't seem to mesh as well as the others.
Thanks!
It's impossible to give build advice if you're rolling your stats instead of using point buy - we have no idea how under or over powered you'll end up being. Normally, build advice assumes point buy or requires the advice seeker to provide their rolls.
Never do a 3-dip into Bard. The best Bard ability is inspiration dice, and you need 5 levels of Bard for them to come back on a short rest and be meaningfully available.
There are shenanigans available if you want to do a Fighter or Rogue dip on a dexterity-leaning build like this (i.e. assuming you don't have the strength to bother discussing Paladin). Just be aware that multiclassing will tend to do weird things to your caster progression.
You can do a lot with a 1-dip, 2-dip, or 3-dip into Warlock - it all depends on what you're after. In your case, you want a 3-dip, like Sorlocks usually do, so you can keep your sorcery points topped up optimally.
Shadow Sorcerer inherently lacks some synergy with your race - your racial darkvision is wasted and your racial spellcasting hasn't gotten the MPMM update so you don't gain Faerie Fire as a castable spell - but it's generally hard to go wrong with half-elf, due to the excellent statline and the fact that you qualify for Elven Accuracy. I'm going to proceed from here assuming point buy so I can actually give build advice. You can use your Shadow Sorcerer Eyes of the Dark ability to effectively count as having taken Devil's Sight as a Warlock invocation.
Half-Elf point buy statline: CHA 17 CON 16 DEX 16 and your first ASI should be CHA 18 + Elven Accuracy.
Warlock 3: You can do this with Genia [Dao] or Hexblade and Pact of the Chain or Pact of the Blade; I'll arbitrarily make some choices to demonstrate. Hexblade + Pact of the Chain (Imp) + Eldritch Mind + Voice of the Chain Master (for being properly good at stealth and espionage).
Your primary go-to fighting style is to put Darkness on yourself, rush into the enemy, then stab them twice with Booming Blade and Quickened Booming Blade. Then you can chill out in combat or walk out of it as you like.
IMO Bard would be the most likely to offer the spy edge and no have any interfering issues with abilities, thus preventing you from getting too MAD. Bard will offer up skills/proficiencies, additional spells (and slots!) which will all play nicely with the Sorcerer build. I'd try for a high Dex if possible, to enhance sneaky stuff and adding a bit of AC, plus better Dex saves are always a good thing.
Having tinkered up a few characters to see how a multi of Bard/Sorc would look, I was quite impressed with the boost the Bard offered my build. The only issue I have with the Sorc is such a low number of spells known and adding Bard allowed me a lot more variety of lower level spells, which I could, as i needed, upcast. The added spell slots as well, made a lot of options available for using Metamagic, as I had more slots to convert if things got sticky.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Reopening this thread because it’s been a while and my pc is now entering into his 13th level. He’s currently our Party’s only full caster with a rogue, Paladin, monk as the others. I’ve gone with shadow sorcerer 10/lore bard 3 and have linked the character sheet below. The current tactic is the cast greater invisibility on myself and focus on debugging/damaging enemies from the shadow. My hound gets used on the biggest enemy possible whilst spells like mind whip and chill touch are my go to damaging spells. With Silvery Barbs and counter spell being my go to disruption spells
i just picked up synaptic static but am wondering if a new concentration spell such as bigby’s hand or telekinesis would be more effective? It’s looking like this campaign will go to level 20 or at least 17-18. Any thoughts or guidance? I’m not tied to getting my 9th level spell and want to at least get to lvl14 sorcerer for the teleportation ability.
Hello! I'm currently planning for a sequel campaign and plan on building a shadow sorcerer who's backstory is that of an spy/assassin. He's a half drow so he gets some inherent casting that I feel would be useful and I plan on taking the shadow touched and either Telepathic or telekinetic feats depending on my ability score rolls.
Thanks!
You can get so much from just 3 levels in either bard or rogue. I believe that both can make for a good spy and deal decent damage.
Bard: From multiclassing into bard you gain prof in one skill of your choice. Then you get Expertise to make you super good with skills that are essential for a spy/assassin, such as Deception, Persuasion, Sleight of Hand, Stealth. You also get Jack of all Trades to improve your non prof skills (also boosting your Initiative since it is a skill check). When it comes to picking a college both Eloquence and Whispers are solid options. If you want to excel in social interaction then Eloquence for Silver TOngue. If you want to stick with the assassin theme then Whispers for Psychic Blades (it is a discount sneak attack feature) and Words of Terror can come in handy. You get utility spells like Charm Person, Invisibility, Disguise self. Plus you get to compine your metamagic and spells to possibly deal massive ammounts of damage (Quickened Hold Person and then Booming Blade plus Psychic Blades).
Rogue: as with bard from multiclassing into rogue you gain prof in one skill of your choice (kinda) and prof with thieves tools. You get Expertise as well. You also get Cunning Action that is very usefull in tight situations. For Subclass I can not give much intel since I have not played rogue that much but I believe Swashbuckler is one of the best picks for combat. Mastermind seems to be fitting with your general idea.
Here are some options considering your theme:
1. undead Warlock
2-level dip: beguling influence, another invocation
3-level dip: pact of the talisman, trade out 2nd invocation for rebuke of the talisman
4-level dip: feat
2. Shadow Monk
3-level dip better AC, patient defense, step of wind, shadow arts
4-level dip: feat
3. Gloomstaker Ranger - maximize stealth ok in deciet
3-level dip gets medium armor, fighting style, dread ambusher, expertise in stealth, extra proficiency (deception if you don't have it) and guidance cantrip.
4-level dip, extra caster level and feat
4. Fey Wanderer Ranger - not quite as good as Gloomstalker in stealth but the best possible deciet
3-level dip gets medium armor fighting style, expertise in stealth 2 more proficiencies (deception and persuasion), + wisdom on all charisma checks and guidance cantrips.
4-level dip, extra caster level and feat
5. Fighter
1-level dip medium armor, superior technique fighting style with either ambush (for stealth) or commanding presence (for deciet)
2-level dip action surge
3-level dip battlemaster with both commanding presence and ambush and more dice.
4-level dip feat
Thank you all for your suggestions! Super helpful and have provided me some clarity in terms of how I’d like my sorcerer to progress. If anyone else has any suggestions on this or level breakdowns it’s all appreciated!
IMO Bard would be the most likely to offer the spy edge and no have any interfering issues with abilities, thus preventing you from getting too MAD. Bard will offer up skills/proficiencies, additional spells (and slots!) which will all play nicely with the Sorcerer build. I'd try for a high Dex if possible, to enhance sneaky stuff and adding a bit of AC, plus better Dex saves are always a good thing.
Having tinkered up a few characters to see how a multi of Bard/Sorc would look, I was quite impressed with the boost the Bard offered my build. The only issue I have with the Sorc is such a low number of spells known and adding Bard allowed me a lot more variety of lower level spells, which I could, as i needed, upcast. The added spell slots as well, made a lot of options available for using Metamagic, as I had more slots to convert if things got sticky.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Reopening this thread because it’s been a while and my pc is now entering into his 13th level. He’s currently our Party’s only full caster with a rogue, Paladin, monk as the others. I’ve gone with shadow sorcerer 10/lore bard 3 and have linked the character sheet below. The current tactic is the cast greater invisibility on myself and focus on debugging/damaging enemies from the shadow. My hound gets used on the biggest enemy possible whilst spells like mind whip and chill touch are my go to damaging spells. With Silvery Barbs and counter spell being my go to disruption spells
i just picked up synaptic static but am wondering if a new concentration spell such as bigby’s hand or telekinesis would be more effective? It’s looking like this campaign will go to level 20 or at least 17-18. Any thoughts or guidance? I’m not tied to getting my 9th level spell and want to at least get to lvl14 sorcerer for the teleportation ability.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/74294123/8vN0wG