Hello. I'm curious just how far a build like this would work. I have an
aasimar warrior of the elements monk lv. 10 right now. I want to get to lv 13 for sure for the deflect energy feature.
However I'm curious if a celestial warlock or if a different type of warlock class would be a better fit. I'm also wondering how many levels I should go after 3 or only do the 3 and stay in monk the rest of the way. I did take magic initiate warlock. So I have a few spells already
When you say you have the "point buy" for both classes you mean you already have attribute scores needed (specifically, 13+ Dexterity, 13+ Wisdom & 13+ Charisma)?
As for the differences in these two options...
Monk 11 - Stride of the Elements - Gain a Fly Speed while Elemental Attunement is up
Monk 12 - FEAT / ASI - your choice but always good to have
Monk 13 - Deflect Energy - makes Deflect Attacks work against any type of attack roll, damage type no longer matters.
vs. Warlock
Warlock 1 - Eldritch Invocation - probably the main benefit of the warlock dip, various choices here but I am guessing Pact of the Tome or Pact of the Chain would be preferable, at Warlock 2 Fiendish Vigor is also pretty good for it's temp HP but by level 12 it might not be as useful for various reasons.
Pact Magic - A few potentially useful spells in here but having limited spell-casting and spells which are already vastly behind isn't going to be that great.
Warlock 2 - Magical Cunning - well one extra cast per day is still something
Warlock 3 - a warlock subclass - honestly, I don't think any subclass is giving enough here.
I would suggest staying with Monk for now... why? because as the others above have said, what are you looking to achieve with this? There isn't much that would be worth holding off getting to Monk 14 for Disciplined Survivor (gain Proficiency against ALL saving throws) which is pretty good. Also any multiclassing will mean not getting the Monk cap stone and with a cap stone that is +4 dexterity & +4 Wisdom, if you plan to ever get to 20, you'll feel that being missing.
If we are talking about a multiclass for Monk, I think Barbarian, Cleric, Druid or Ranger would be better places too look. Barbarian would need 13 strength but Cleric, Druid and Ranger already share attributes with Monk. I would say Cleric or Barbarian are probably the best for a 3 level dip (if less cleric is almost certainly the favourite), followed by Druid and Ranger in last.
Barbarian subclasses, all 2024 PHB subclasses except berserker* offer some nice bonuses for rage at level 3.
*(as it relies on strength based on attacks)
Cleric subclasses, I think Trickery Domain goes pretty well, the ability to give yourself advantage with Invoke Duplicity is quiet good but slightly costly with the bonus action cost of creating and moving it.
Druid subclasses, I don't think any give anything really worth considering
Ranger subclasses, most rely on weapon attacks which can be fulfilled by a shortbow, gloomstalker should be good if your wisdom modifier is high (which it should be), else wise hunter would be best.
If we are talking about a multiclass for Monk, I think Barbarian, Cleric, Druid or Ranger would be better places too look. Barbarian would need 13 strength but Cleric, Druid and Ranger already share attributes with Monk. I would say Cleric or Barbarian are probably the best for a 3 level dip (if less cleric is almost certainly the favourite), followed by Druid and Ranger in last.
I disagree. You only need one level in barbarian to get rage for resistance to bps damage. The only downside for the op is that they can't use the spells they got from magic initiate, but those are probably rarely used in combat, if at all.
If we are talking about a multiclass for Monk, I think Barbarian, Cleric, Druid or Ranger would be better places too look. Barbarian would need 13 strength but Cleric, Druid and Ranger already share attributes with Monk. I would say Cleric or Barbarian are probably the best for a 3 level dip (if less cleric is almost certainly the favourite), followed by Druid and Ranger in last.
I disagree. You only need one level in barbarian to get rage for resistance to bps damage. The only downside for the op is that they can't use the spells they got from magic initiate, but those are probably rarely used in combat, if at all.
you only get a bonus to damage if you use strength which is a weird build for Monk, not going to say it's impossible but if you're sticking to Dexterity then you'll not benefit from Rage bonus damage. With Cleric you get Cleric spells, which gives you a few extra things you can do and with Divine Order, you take Thaumaturge for an additional cantrip and the ability to add Wisdom to your Religion and Arcana checks.
If we are talking about a multiclass for Monk, I think Barbarian, Cleric, Druid or Ranger would be better places too look. Barbarian would need 13 strength but Cleric, Druid and Ranger already share attributes with Monk. I would say Cleric or Barbarian are probably the best for a 3 level dip (if less cleric is almost certainly the favourite), followed by Druid and Ranger in last.
I disagree. You only need one level in barbarian to get rage for resistance to bps damage. The only downside for the op is that they can't use the spells they got from magic initiate, but those are probably rarely used in combat, if at all.
you only get a bonus to damage if you use strength which is a weird build for Monk, not going to say it's impossible but if you're sticking to Dexterity then you'll not benefit from Rage bonus damage. With Cleric you get Cleric spells, which gives you a few extra things you can do and with Divine Order, you take Thaumaturge for an additional cantrip and the ability to add Wisdom to your Religion and Arcana checks.
I didn't mention the damage bonus. I think that resistance to the three major damage types is significantly better than a few level one spells and cantrips.
If we are talking about a multiclass for Monk, I think Barbarian, Cleric, Druid or Ranger would be better places too look. Barbarian would need 13 strength but Cleric, Druid and Ranger already share attributes with Monk. I would say Cleric or Barbarian are probably the best for a 3 level dip (if less cleric is almost certainly the favourite), followed by Druid and Ranger in last.
I disagree. You only need one level in barbarian to get rage for resistance to bps damage. The only downside for the op is that they can't use the spells they got from magic initiate, but those are probably rarely used in combat, if at all.
you only get a bonus to damage if you use strength which is a weird build for Monk, not going to say it's impossible but if you're sticking to Dexterity then you'll not benefit from Rage bonus damage. With Cleric you get Cleric spells, which gives you a few extra things you can do and with Divine Order, you take Thaumaturge for an additional cantrip and the ability to add Wisdom to your Religion and Arcana checks.
I didn't mention the damage bonus. I think that resistance to the three major damage types is significantly better than a few level one spells and cantrips.
Cleric gets access to some very helpful spells and cantrips, so I'll just agree to disagree here.
To answer most of the questions as to why do the dip at all, I thought it would be fun and give me a few more spell slots. Also have fun with a dip that's unconventional, but could be useful with the right spells in battle or outside of battle.
Your right lv 14 is def a must for saving throws. I didn't think about that
Yes when I said I have the point buy,i did mean i had the +13 requirement.
I have done a monk barb before for a short campaign and done it as a strength base. It was alot of fun for sure.
I dont want to pick a cleric. We have one in our group already. But I like where your heads at with all the different subclass dips
I have thought druid before but I feel like maybe I'd need 3 or 4 levels for it to be worth it.
Ranger could be a possible work as well. I see where your going with hunter
I also was thinking oath of the crown paladin do to the story me and the dm are slowly telling with my character later
I also was thinking oath of the crown paladin do to the story me and the dm are slowly telling with my character later
Probably not a good idea. You wouldn't get a lot from that dip, really only utility spells, weapon mastery, divine favor, divine smite, and the channel divinity options. All but the utility spells use your bonus action, which is a big deal as a monk. To break down the individuals:
weapon mastery is available from a feat
divine favor would grant an average of roughly 5 extra dpr (attack 3 times using extra attack and nick, hit rate 65%) at the cost of missing out on a one time average of 6.825 damage if you attack with martial arts, or 20.475 if you do flurry of blows, or just anything else you want to use your bonus action for
divine smite is 9 damage compared to 6.825 with no resource expenditure or 20.475 for a focus point (you do get a free cast once per day, so 2.275 extra damage every day. Yay? /lh)
Turn the Tide: very situationally practical
Champion Challenge: also situational, and I doubt you want to be the tank
If you are looking for a Warlock dip, I suggest taking three levels as an Archfey Warlock. From this dip, you could get quite a lot. Your subclass would grant you free castings of Misty Step each day. You could grab some useful invocations like Devil's Sight, Pact of the Chain, Lessons of the First Ones, and maybe Eldritch Mind, then grab some spells that don't rely on enemy saving throws like Blade Ward, Darkness, and Invisibility. If you are a Monk that likes to Grapple, then you could also grab Hex to debuff their skill checks to break our of your grapples.
Might be worth the multiclass depending on your role in the party, but I personally would wait until after Monk 14, and even then would only do the multiclassing if I knew my campaign was going to last long enough to make it worth it.
Oh okay i see. That makes sense. Thanks for all the calculations!!! And the advice. On the crown.
The archery huh? Misty step would def be useful and hex. blade ward, invisibility and darkness. Would those work often still at high lv play with low spell slots. I'm just curious I've never got to level 14 even when playing.
The campaign we are on is the highest I've ever been at 10
Genie warlock would be a good fit because it connects to the whole elemental theme of your monk subclass.
The best reason to do anything in this game is because its fun, regardless if its optimal. If it seems like it would be fun and it fits your character then go for it.
Genies Wrath would give a small damage bump to your unarmed strikes. Your save dc and spell attacks would be based on charisma so if that ability score is only 13 then your spell and invocation selection should involve picks where save dc and spell attacks are not really important.
For sure the genies would fit the theme that's a nice idea as well 💡
Would a hexblade be another good one for damage?
The hexblade probably doesn't add a whole lot of damage for you, I also wouldn't do the suggested Fey lock either as a monk you have much better uses of your bonus action than misty step. Genie, Fiend, GOO all have things that are solid. with Fiend having suggestion and GOO having detect thoughts. As other said you are really just getting utility by going warlock here. Tome gets you a decent number of ritual spells which is unlikely to be relevant this late in the game, but you could still have options here. Chain gets you a scout helper which could be useful. Level 2 invocations you are probably looking at devil's sight and lessons of the first one. Being able to pick up an additional origin feat or even 2 could be solid for a monk. Get that lucky, or tavern brawler, or alert which ever you happen to be missing. After that, if you are going to 20 you probably want to go 16 and 4 at levels 19 and 20 respectively so that you can get 2 epic boon feats and pop your dex to 22.
But ya in general, spells like blade ward, armor of agathys, combined with dark one's blessing and deflect attacks could go a little way to keeping you alive a touch longer if you can set them up before the first round of combat.
I think 2024 grapple is a STR saving throw now not a contested athletics check so Hex no longer applies (2014 then rock on)
What about a Wizard (Diviner 3+) ? The diviners fate dice (called something?) allows tou to substitute them for an attack roll or enemy saving throw, so if you grapple and really want to grab the fragile villain, hoist them into the air and then pile drive them into some lava ... well having a portent (that's the thing) of a 3 say to use for their save is like an ace in the hole.
I like the theme as diviner and Monk have some synergy, and wizards are about order/discipline/study for their power as are Monks. Just a thought ... You could even have an unseen servant as a ritual don some sparring gloves to practice fighting invisible opponents for fun ?
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Hello. I'm curious just how far a build like this would work. I have an
aasimar warrior of the elements monk lv. 10 right now. I want to get to lv 13 for sure for the deflect energy feature.
However I'm curious if a celestial warlock or if a different type of warlock class would be a better fit. I'm also wondering how many levels I should go after 3 or only do the 3 and stay in monk the rest of the way. I did take magic initiate warlock. So I have a few spells already
I do have the point buy for both classes.
What would you gain from this dip?
Agreed - what do you wish to Gain or want to achieve with the multiclass?
Life's hard - get a helmet!
When you say you have the "point buy" for both classes you mean you already have attribute scores needed (specifically, 13+ Dexterity, 13+ Wisdom & 13+ Charisma)?
As for the differences in these two options...
Monk 11 - Stride of the Elements - Gain a Fly Speed while Elemental Attunement is up
Monk 12 - FEAT / ASI - your choice but always good to have
Monk 13 - Deflect Energy - makes Deflect Attacks work against any type of attack roll, damage type no longer matters.
vs. Warlock
Warlock 1 - Eldritch Invocation - probably the main benefit of the warlock dip, various choices here but I am guessing Pact of the Tome or Pact of the Chain would be preferable, at Warlock 2 Fiendish Vigor is also pretty good for it's temp HP but by level 12 it might not be as useful for various reasons.
Pact Magic - A few potentially useful spells in here but having limited spell-casting and spells which are already vastly behind isn't going to be that great.
Warlock 2 - Magical Cunning - well one extra cast per day is still something
Warlock 3 - a warlock subclass - honestly, I don't think any subclass is giving enough here.
I would suggest staying with Monk for now... why? because as the others above have said, what are you looking to achieve with this? There isn't much that would be worth holding off getting to Monk 14 for Disciplined Survivor (gain Proficiency against ALL saving throws) which is pretty good. Also any multiclassing will mean not getting the Monk cap stone and with a cap stone that is +4 dexterity & +4 Wisdom, if you plan to ever get to 20, you'll feel that being missing.
If we are talking about a multiclass for Monk, I think Barbarian, Cleric, Druid or Ranger would be better places too look. Barbarian would need 13 strength but Cleric, Druid and Ranger already share attributes with Monk. I would say Cleric or Barbarian are probably the best for a 3 level dip (if less cleric is almost certainly the favourite), followed by Druid and Ranger in last.
Barbarian subclasses, all 2024 PHB subclasses except berserker* offer some nice bonuses for rage at level 3.
*(as it relies on strength based on attacks)
Cleric subclasses, I think Trickery Domain goes pretty well, the ability to give yourself advantage with Invoke Duplicity is quiet good but slightly costly with the bonus action cost of creating and moving it.
Druid subclasses, I don't think any give anything really worth considering
Ranger subclasses, most rely on weapon attacks which can be fulfilled by a shortbow, gloomstalker should be good if your wisdom modifier is high (which it should be), else wise hunter would be best.
I disagree. You only need one level in barbarian to get rage for resistance to bps damage. The only downside for the op is that they can't use the spells they got from magic initiate, but those are probably rarely used in combat, if at all.
you only get a bonus to damage if you use strength which is a weird build for Monk, not going to say it's impossible but if you're sticking to Dexterity then you'll not benefit from Rage bonus damage. With Cleric you get Cleric spells, which gives you a few extra things you can do and with Divine Order, you take Thaumaturge for an additional cantrip and the ability to add Wisdom to your Religion and Arcana checks.
I didn't mention the damage bonus. I think that resistance to the three major damage types is significantly better than a few level one spells and cantrips.
Cleric gets access to some very helpful spells and cantrips, so I'll just agree to disagree here.
To answer most of the questions as to why do the dip at all, I thought it would be fun and give me a few more spell slots. Also have fun with a dip that's unconventional, but could be useful with the right spells in battle or outside of battle.
Your right lv 14 is def a must for saving throws. I didn't think about that
Yes when I said I have the point buy,i did mean i had the +13 requirement.
I have done a monk barb before for a short campaign and done it as a strength base. It was alot of fun for sure.
I dont want to pick a cleric. We have one in our group already. But I like where your heads at with all the different subclass dips
I have thought druid before but I feel like maybe I'd need 3 or 4 levels for it to be worth it.
Ranger could be a possible work as well. I see where your going with hunter
I also was thinking oath of the crown paladin do to the story me and the dm are slowly telling with my character later
Probably not a good idea. You wouldn't get a lot from that dip, really only utility spells, weapon mastery, divine favor, divine smite, and the channel divinity options. All but the utility spells use your bonus action, which is a big deal as a monk. To break down the individuals:
If you are looking for a Warlock dip, I suggest taking three levels as an Archfey Warlock. From this dip, you could get quite a lot. Your subclass would grant you free castings of Misty Step each day. You could grab some useful invocations like Devil's Sight, Pact of the Chain, Lessons of the First Ones, and maybe Eldritch Mind, then grab some spells that don't rely on enemy saving throws like Blade Ward, Darkness, and Invisibility. If you are a Monk that likes to Grapple, then you could also grab Hex to debuff their skill checks to break our of your grapples.
Might be worth the multiclass depending on your role in the party, but I personally would wait until after Monk 14, and even then would only do the multiclassing if I knew my campaign was going to last long enough to make it worth it.
Oh okay i see. That makes sense. Thanks for all the calculations!!! And the advice. On the crown.
The archery huh? Misty step would def be useful and hex. blade ward, invisibility and darkness. Would those work often still at high lv play with low spell slots. I'm just curious I've never got to level 14 even when playing.
The campaign we are on is the highest I've ever been at 10
Genie warlock would be a good fit because it connects to the whole elemental theme of your monk subclass.
The best reason to do anything in this game is because its fun, regardless if its optimal. If it seems like it would be fun and it fits your character then go for it.
Genies Wrath would give a small damage bump to your unarmed strikes. Your save dc and spell attacks would be based on charisma so if that ability score is only 13 then your spell and invocation selection should involve picks where save dc and spell attacks are not really important.
For sure the genies would fit the theme that's a nice idea as well 💡
Would a hexblade be another good one for damage?
The hexblade probably doesn't add a whole lot of damage for you, I also wouldn't do the suggested Fey lock either as a monk you have much better uses of your bonus action than misty step. Genie, Fiend, GOO all have things that are solid. with Fiend having suggestion and GOO having detect thoughts. As other said you are really just getting utility by going warlock here. Tome gets you a decent number of ritual spells which is unlikely to be relevant this late in the game, but you could still have options here. Chain gets you a scout helper which could be useful. Level 2 invocations you are probably looking at devil's sight and lessons of the first one. Being able to pick up an additional origin feat or even 2 could be solid for a monk. Get that lucky, or tavern brawler, or alert which ever you happen to be missing. After that, if you are going to 20 you probably want to go 16 and 4 at levels 19 and 20 respectively so that you can get 2 epic boon feats and pop your dex to 22.
But ya in general, spells like blade ward, armor of agathys, combined with dark one's blessing and deflect attacks could go a little way to keeping you alive a touch longer if you can set them up before the first round of combat.
I think 2024 grapple is a STR saving throw now not a contested athletics check so Hex no longer applies (2014 then rock on)
What about a Wizard (Diviner 3+) ? The diviners fate dice (called something?) allows tou to substitute them for an attack roll or enemy saving throw, so if you grapple and really want to grab the fragile villain, hoist them into the air and then pile drive them into some lava ... well having a portent (that's the thing) of a 3 say to use for their save is like an ace in the hole.
I like the theme as diviner and Monk have some synergy, and wizards are about order/discipline/study for their power as are Monks. Just a thought ... You could even have an unseen servant as a ritual don some sparring gloves to practice fighting invisible opponents for fun ?
Life's hard - get a helmet!