Ok I'm not sure if I'm missing something but I had a discussion with my dm about Planar Ally and how it wouldn't work for me.
Current run down me and two others are playing in the Dalelands and demons and devils are running around to the north and south of Essembra enslaving hobgoblins and orcs into death cults/demon-halberds. There is a powerful demon locked under Swordpoint temple (Belongs to Tempus and I am a NG cleric of Tempus) we did some research base on what we saw in the last brief encounter our monk had with it before running away after seeing it teleport. Turns out it was Bael. We locked the door shut where it was sealed below but found out after a week that it slowing breaking the sealed door. Panicked I started asking my dm if I could summon a powerful Angel like a Planetar to aid us in battle in slaying it.
He said that Tempus being a true neutral god of war he would not have any angels under his command to send me due to them being LG and if i could even find one I could summon it wouldn't help because I'm doing this to clear out the temple to Tempus for the reason it does not aid the angel's god's grip on the world meaning the temple would not be theirs so I couldn't summon one that would help.
is this true or am I missing something? Does the spell suck? Is there a way to get around this?
planar ally is probably one of the most powerful spells in the game. It's just that your DM doesn't want you to use it. There is no rule that prevents anything from coming. The DM must send help because the spell makes that definitive. No matter what situation, problem, or location you are in, help will come. Your DM chooses if that help is an angel or a mouse. The DM is just pulling BS so that you don't get extra help. I personally think it should be allowed (but know that the spell comes with PRICEY components and requirements.). Confront your DM and ask them out of game why they are so against letting you use the spell. Even if you can't get a Planetar, the dm is required to give you SOMETHING.
Personally, I would say that every god has if not angels, something else that’s close enough not to matter. Otherwise they have to do everything themselves, which is a different kind of strange. That said, it’s certainly within a DMs purview to ban a spell, which it kind of sounds like they are doing. I disagree, and think they are adding requirements to the spell that are not listed in raw, but that’s their call. And they are at least telling you in advance, rather than you burning a 6th level slot and then finding out it doesn’t work and getting nothing for it, so they’re being pretty fair.
Personally, I would say that every god has if not angels, something else that’s close enough not to matter. Otherwise they have to do everything themselves, which is a different kind of strange. That said, it’s certainly within a DMs purview to ban a spell, which it kind of sounds like they are doing. I disagree, and think they are adding requirements to the spell that are not listed in raw, but that’s their call. And they are at least telling you in advance, rather than you burning a 6th level slot and then finding out it doesn’t work and getting nothing for it, so they’re being pretty fair.
He is not banning it he mostly saying that I could find some but it would not be under Tempus. I think if I were to do some downtime research I could find some Angel's name. Thinking about how Angels are LG I might be able to summon one and try to frame me clearing out this demon is better than letting it feaster below for the good of the world. Would that be a sort of work around for this?
The DM could decide that your call is answered by a Felidar and given that creatures rarely accept a task that appears suicidal it would be unwilling to help you against Bael in combat.
Alignment of creatures is somewhat flexible in 5e, when looking at monsters a goblin is listed as neutral evil but a player is able to creage a LG goblin. I wouldn't have a problem having a Planetar. If the DM really wanted something obviously allied to Tempus how about a Deva, shapechangesd to a champion.
Planar Ally is a spell that puts a huge amount of flexibility on the DM and if he is not expecting it, it can be hard ot recide on an appriate creature to send. The spell should be useful but not one that allows the party to get a celestial to win oll their fights for them.
In your pareticular instance, where a cleric of a diety appeals for help in slaying a powerful demon currently under one of his own temples, empus would absolutely want the thing got rid of and would send an entity who would not charge, if the fevis was not in a temple of his own, or if the appeal was made by someone who did not worship him the response would be somewhat different. (The creature that appears may not be as powerful or will negotiate hard to help)
That no one would come because your cause does not directly go towards the wishes of your deity is not really how the spell works. The only thing that affects is what the cost for their service will be. If you even go against the god's desires you would have to pay a VERY high price (probably a service that could be a new quest hook! YAY!), meanwhile if you do what you do to protect what your god values the recommended price can be halved or even completely removed as the being you summon is at the core friendly to you as a servant of the same god.
Think of it like asking a higher up at your workplace for help with something as an example. If you ask them for help at the workplace, they might very well be inclined to help you without asking for anything in return really, but if you ask them to come over to your house and mow your lawn, expect them to want something in return.
I don't think I'm going to summon a fiend to aid me and elementals I don't think Tempus would have any.
From the angel info block: "Angels act out the will of their gods with tireless devotion. Even chaotic good deities command lawful good angels, knowing that the angels' dedication to order best allows them to fulfill divine commands. An angel follows a single driving purpose, as decreed by its deity. However, an angel is incapable of following commands that stray from the path of law and good."
So Tempus canonically has angels in his employ. Per Storm King's Thunder, Valkur is a Chaotic Good Lesser Deity in Tempus' pantheon and subservient to him. There's no question Valkur has angels in his fleet, and any minion of Valkur's is a minion of Tempus's.
I don't think I'm going to summon a fiend to aid me and elementals I don't think Tempus would have any.
From the angel info block: "Angels act out the will of their gods with tireless devotion. Even chaotic good deities command lawful good angels, knowing that the angels' dedication to order best allows them to fulfill divine commands. An angel follows a single driving purpose, as decreed by its deity. However, an angel is incapable of following commands that stray from the path of law and good."
So Tempus canonically has angels in his employ. Per Storm King's Thunder, Valkur is a Chaotic Good Lesser Deity in Tempus' pantheon and subservient to him. There's no question Valkur has angels in his fleet, and any minion of Valkur's is a minion of Tempus's.
I haven't read the Storm King's Thunder, what type of angels does Valkur have? or do they use a different stat block of the angel set normal seen?
I don't think I'm going to summon a fiend to aid me and elementals I don't think Tempus would have any.
From the angel info block: "Angels act out the will of their gods with tireless devotion. Even chaotic good deities command lawful good angels, knowing that the angels' dedication to order best allows them to fulfill divine commands. An angel follows a single driving purpose, as decreed by its deity. However, an angel is incapable of following commands that stray from the path of law and good."
So Tempus canonically has angels in his employ. Per Storm King's Thunder, Valkur is a Chaotic Good Lesser Deity in Tempus' pantheon and subservient to him. There's no question Valkur has angels in his fleet, and any minion of Valkur's is a minion of Tempus's.
I haven't read the Storm King's Thunder, what type of angels does Valkur have? or do they use a different stat block of the angel set normal seen?
No no. SKT only confirms Valkur is in 5E as a CG Lesser Deity. So I have no details for you on the exact nature of his angels - it would be entirely up to your DM. 5E hasn't got stat blocks out for all possible angels, not by a long shot, so your DM might easily homebrew some.
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Ok I'm not sure if I'm missing something but I had a discussion with my dm about Planar Ally and how it wouldn't work for me.
Current run down me and two others are playing in the Dalelands and demons and devils are running around to the north and south of Essembra enslaving hobgoblins and orcs into death cults/demon-halberds. There is a powerful demon locked under Swordpoint temple (Belongs to Tempus and I am a NG cleric of Tempus) we did some research base on what we saw in the last brief encounter our monk had with it before running away after seeing it teleport. Turns out it was Bael. We locked the door shut where it was sealed below but found out after a week that it slowing breaking the sealed door. Panicked I started asking my dm if I could summon a powerful Angel like a Planetar to aid us in battle in slaying it.
He said that Tempus being a true neutral god of war he would not have any angels under his command to send me due to them being LG and if i could even find one I could summon it wouldn't help because I'm doing this to clear out the temple to Tempus for the reason it does not aid the angel's god's grip on the world meaning the temple would not be theirs so I couldn't summon one that would help.
is this true or am I missing something? Does the spell suck? Is there a way to get around this?
planar ally is probably one of the most powerful spells in the game. It's just that your DM doesn't want you to use it. There is no rule that prevents anything from coming. The DM must send help because the spell makes that definitive. No matter what situation, problem, or location you are in, help will come. Your DM chooses if that help is an angel or a mouse. The DM is just pulling BS so that you don't get extra help. I personally think it should be allowed (but know that the spell comes with PRICEY components and requirements.). Confront your DM and ask them out of game why they are so against letting you use the spell. Even if you can't get a Planetar, the dm is required to give you SOMETHING.
My only good homebrews: Races, Subclasses.
An aspiring DM and Homebrewer. Ask me if you need anything.
But do you think that Tempus has no angels?
I don't think I'm going to summon a fiend to aid me and elementals I don't think Tempus would have any.
Personally, I would say that every god has if not angels, something else that’s close enough not to matter. Otherwise they have to do everything themselves, which is a different kind of strange.
That said, it’s certainly within a DMs purview to ban a spell, which it kind of sounds like they are doing. I disagree, and think they are adding requirements to the spell that are not listed in raw, but that’s their call. And they are at least telling you in advance, rather than you burning a 6th level slot and then finding out it doesn’t work and getting nothing for it, so they’re being pretty fair.
He is not banning it he mostly saying that I could find some but it would not be under Tempus. I think if I were to do some downtime research I could find some Angel's name. Thinking about how Angels are LG I might be able to summon one and try to frame me clearing out this demon is better than letting it feaster below for the good of the world. Would that be a sort of work around for this?
Not all celestials are LG.
The DM could decide that your call is answered by a Felidar and given that creatures rarely accept a task that appears suicidal it would be unwilling to help you against Bael in combat.
Alignment of creatures is somewhat flexible in 5e, when looking at monsters a goblin is listed as neutral evil but a player is able to creage a LG goblin. I wouldn't have a problem having a Planetar. If the DM really wanted something obviously allied to Tempus how about a Deva, shapechangesd to a champion.
Planar Ally is a spell that puts a huge amount of flexibility on the DM and if he is not expecting it, it can be hard ot recide on an appriate creature to send. The spell should be useful but not one that allows the party to get a celestial to win oll their fights for them.
In your pareticular instance, where a cleric of a diety appeals for help in slaying a powerful demon currently under one of his own temples, empus would absolutely want the thing got rid of and would send an entity who would not charge, if the fevis was not in a temple of his own, or if the appeal was made by someone who did not worship him the response would be somewhat different. (The creature that appears may not be as powerful or will negotiate hard to help)
That no one would come because your cause does not directly go towards the wishes of your deity is not really how the spell works. The only thing that affects is what the cost for their service will be. If you even go against the god's desires you would have to pay a VERY high price (probably a service that could be a new quest hook! YAY!), meanwhile if you do what you do to protect what your god values the recommended price can be halved or even completely removed as the being you summon is at the core friendly to you as a servant of the same god.
Think of it like asking a higher up at your workplace for help with something as an example. If you ask them for help at the workplace, they might very well be inclined to help you without asking for anything in return really, but if you ask them to come over to your house and mow your lawn, expect them to want something in return.
From the angel info block: "Angels act out the will of their gods with tireless devotion. Even chaotic good deities command lawful good angels, knowing that the angels' dedication to order best allows them to fulfill divine commands. An angel follows a single driving purpose, as decreed by its deity. However, an angel is incapable of following commands that stray from the path of law and good."
So Tempus canonically has angels in his employ. Per Storm King's Thunder, Valkur is a Chaotic Good Lesser Deity in Tempus' pantheon and subservient to him. There's no question Valkur has angels in his fleet, and any minion of Valkur's is a minion of Tempus's.
I haven't read the Storm King's Thunder, what type of angels does Valkur have? or do they use a different stat block of the angel set normal seen?
No no. SKT only confirms Valkur is in 5E as a CG Lesser Deity. So I have no details for you on the exact nature of his angels - it would be entirely up to your DM. 5E hasn't got stat blocks out for all possible angels, not by a long shot, so your DM might easily homebrew some.