Looking for the inverse to the norm here. Most 'guides' focus on the cleric dip and go all wizard after. I am looking for thoughts on opposite, Cleric 18 / Wizard 2. Wizard 2 only for the 2nd level ability, sculpt, portent, etc... Specifically thinking Light Cleric 18 and Wizard 2 but undecided on Evocation or Divination.
My campaign is not about encounters (damage dealing) its more about flavor and intrigue so leaning Divination for Portent. Although when we have have to throw down being able to fireball the room and only hurt the bad guys is very tempting.
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I am the Patron of Light, not its Patron Saint. ***Casts Flame Strike ***
At the expense of STR and DEX, my Knowledge Domain Cleric didn't dump INT at all, because he's a Knowledge Cleric. Sage Background and influences from NPC Wizards around him, he used his lifelong commitment of pursuing knowledge and studied to gain levels into Wizard, and specifically Divination to continue the pursuit of Knowledge that is consistent with his Domain.
You won't break any optimization molds, but for me it was a natural fit that maintained Character integrity.
Don't worry about the guides or norms, or even random advice from strangers on the forums. Let your character / backstory / campaign milestones influence the path you take.
In your example, Light Domain going to Evocation makes a little more sense than Divination. You're not required to make sense, but it helps to consider how Wizards get their abilities. It's not a Divine power bestowed upon them, they get it from study and instruction. Maybe your character who has been gifted by the Gods is trying to make sense of it and wants to learn more about his divine gift... they have been dedicating time and research to learn more about the powers they have, and that manifests into Evocation Wizard based on a better understanding of how your gifts work.
There's no wrong answer here, I've just always felt compelled to color inside the lines. Good luck, have fun, I hope you and your party enjoys the stories you tell.
One great reason to take a level or two in Wizard if you manage to roll well enough to have good Wisdom, Intelligence, Constitution, and Dexterity is to get a good attack cantrip, because Cleric cantrips aren't very good. However, Light Cleric has potent spell casting, and that won't apply to Wizard cantrips. You can also choose an attack cantrip from the Wizard spell list for when you want an attack roll and an attack cantrip from the Cleric spell list for when you want the enemy to do a saving throw, also giving you a pair of different options for damage types.
If you were doing a more melee Cleric Domain, the Enchantment Wizard's level 2 ability would be pretty good. You can concentrate on a spell, attack with Spiritual Weapon as a bonus action, and use your action to maintain the Hypnotic Gaze. But as a Light Cleric, you're less inclined to be in melee range, and therefore less inclined to use Hypnotic Gaze.
Since you mentioned Light Cleric as your most likely choice, can you confirm that your intent is to play a ranged Cleric that uses cantrips instead of weapon attacks when it wants to deal damage without using a spell slot? If so, that really narrows it down on the Cleric domain choices.
If your goal is great AoE damage, I would suggest taking a look at the Tempest Domain as well. They get a nice spell list of Area of Effect damage spells, and their channel divinity allows them to get max thunder or lightning damage on one of those area of effect damage spells once per short rest (or twice per short rest after level 6). Shatter and Thunderwave both are great choices for this, and while Destructive Wave can only have half of its damage boosted by the Tempest Cleric's channel divinity, it also has a built in sculpting ability in it. If you want to compare a Fireball with 8D6 for a level 3 spell slot, that will be an average of 28 damage with a dexterity save. Both Shatter and Thunderwave are constitution saves which is less desirable than a dexterity save, but with a 3rd level spell slot and your channel divinity, they would deal 32 damage if you used a 3rd level spell slot and the tempest cleric's channel divinity ability. And that damage scales up by 8 in higher level spell slots (assuming that you're using the channel divinity), whereas the fireball scales up by 1D6 (3.5 average) in higher spell slots. A 5th level fireball would deal 10D6 damage, or 35 average, and a 5th level Destructive Wave would also deal 10D6 damage (or 5D6+30 if you use your channel divinity). Thunderwave and Shatter do have a much smaller radius than Fireball (Destructive Wave's is bigger than Fireball), and Thunderwave and Destructive Wave also have the limitation that you have to be very close to your enemies. But on the bright side, Fire damage is much more commonly resisted than Thunder damage (or the radiant/necrotic damage on Destructive wave). Since your only other channel divinity option is the turn undead/destroy undead you'll almost always be using the channel divinity to deal max damage on your AoE spells. So if your intent is to be able to deal a lot of AoE damage a few times per day, I would recommend taking a look at Tempest Cleric. Tempest Cleric is also good if you would rather use a melee weapon and have divine strike than use a ranged cantrip and have potent spellcasting. And if you decide that you like Spirit Guardians, you'll want to be up in melee range. Or, you can get Call Lightning for being a Tempest Cleric and blast away with that spell every turn from range. But since I'm playing a Tempest Cleric right now, I'm partial to the class. If Tempest Cleric doesn't fit the type of role playing and type of combat that you're interested in doing, that's perfectly understandable.
As a Light Cleric, you'll still want to be somewhat close to melee range to use your Warding Flare ability and your Radiance of the Dawn ability. Some domains get heavy armor and martial weapons, but the Light Domain Cleric does not. I'm assuming that you've recognized that and you're not too interested in heavy armor or martial weapons? If you're doing a Cleric-Wizard multiclass, you'll be multiple stat dependent, so that makes doing a martial weapons based Cleric more difficult, as it would force you to have four good scores to put into Wisdom, Intelligence, Constitution and Strength or Dexterity depending on which type of armor you choose. So it's probably best to do a Cleric with potent spell casting and to put just a 12 into dexterity and save three better scores for Wisdom, Intelligence, and Constitution. Although if you roll badly (like I seem to do), getting 4 scores of 12+ is far from guaranteed.
Knowledge cleric/Divination wizard is one of my favorite combinations. Mine is currently 2 knowledge cleric/8 divination wizard but the split would be great reversed as well. My character has the investigator background and is the scholastic skill monkey of the party. Lots of tricks up his sleeve.
He's supplemented these spells by also having a necklace of prayer beads, staff of charming and a wand of fireballs. That's a lot of extra spells and divination savant allows him to gain slots back from casting his divination spells.
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Looking for the inverse to the norm here. Most 'guides' focus on the cleric dip and go all wizard after. I am looking for thoughts on opposite, Cleric 18 / Wizard 2. Wizard 2 only for the 2nd level ability, sculpt, portent, etc... Specifically thinking Light Cleric 18 and Wizard 2 but undecided on Evocation or Divination.
My campaign is not about encounters (damage dealing) its more about flavor and intrigue so leaning Divination for Portent. Although when we have have to throw down being able to fireball the room and only hurt the bad guys is very tempting.
I am the Patron of Light, not its Patron Saint. ***Casts Flame Strike ***
At the expense of STR and DEX, my Knowledge Domain Cleric didn't dump INT at all, because he's a Knowledge Cleric. Sage Background and influences from NPC Wizards around him, he used his lifelong commitment of pursuing knowledge and studied to gain levels into Wizard, and specifically Divination to continue the pursuit of Knowledge that is consistent with his Domain.
You won't break any optimization molds, but for me it was a natural fit that maintained Character integrity.
Don't worry about the guides or norms, or even random advice from strangers on the forums. Let your character / backstory / campaign milestones influence the path you take.
In your example, Light Domain going to Evocation makes a little more sense than Divination. You're not required to make sense, but it helps to consider how Wizards get their abilities. It's not a Divine power bestowed upon them, they get it from study and instruction. Maybe your character who has been gifted by the Gods is trying to make sense of it and wants to learn more about his divine gift... they have been dedicating time and research to learn more about the powers they have, and that manifests into Evocation Wizard based on a better understanding of how your gifts work.
There's no wrong answer here, I've just always felt compelled to color inside the lines. Good luck, have fun, I hope you and your party enjoys the stories you tell.
One great reason to take a level or two in Wizard if you manage to roll well enough to have good Wisdom, Intelligence, Constitution, and Dexterity is to get a good attack cantrip, because Cleric cantrips aren't very good. However, Light Cleric has potent spell casting, and that won't apply to Wizard cantrips. You can also choose an attack cantrip from the Wizard spell list for when you want an attack roll and an attack cantrip from the Cleric spell list for when you want the enemy to do a saving throw, also giving you a pair of different options for damage types.
If you were doing a more melee Cleric Domain, the Enchantment Wizard's level 2 ability would be pretty good. You can concentrate on a spell, attack with Spiritual Weapon as a bonus action, and use your action to maintain the Hypnotic Gaze. But as a Light Cleric, you're less inclined to be in melee range, and therefore less inclined to use Hypnotic Gaze.
Since you mentioned Light Cleric as your most likely choice, can you confirm that your intent is to play a ranged Cleric that uses cantrips instead of weapon attacks when it wants to deal damage without using a spell slot? If so, that really narrows it down on the Cleric domain choices.
If your goal is great AoE damage, I would suggest taking a look at the Tempest Domain as well. They get a nice spell list of Area of Effect damage spells, and their channel divinity allows them to get max thunder or lightning damage on one of those area of effect damage spells once per short rest (or twice per short rest after level 6). Shatter and Thunderwave both are great choices for this, and while Destructive Wave can only have half of its damage boosted by the Tempest Cleric's channel divinity, it also has a built in sculpting ability in it. If you want to compare a Fireball with 8D6 for a level 3 spell slot, that will be an average of 28 damage with a dexterity save. Both Shatter and Thunderwave are constitution saves which is less desirable than a dexterity save, but with a 3rd level spell slot and your channel divinity, they would deal 32 damage if you used a 3rd level spell slot and the tempest cleric's channel divinity ability. And that damage scales up by 8 in higher level spell slots (assuming that you're using the channel divinity), whereas the fireball scales up by 1D6 (3.5 average) in higher spell slots. A 5th level fireball would deal 10D6 damage, or 35 average, and a 5th level Destructive Wave would also deal 10D6 damage (or 5D6+30 if you use your channel divinity). Thunderwave and Shatter do have a much smaller radius than Fireball (Destructive Wave's is bigger than Fireball), and Thunderwave and Destructive Wave also have the limitation that you have to be very close to your enemies. But on the bright side, Fire damage is much more commonly resisted than Thunder damage (or the radiant/necrotic damage on Destructive wave). Since your only other channel divinity option is the turn undead/destroy undead you'll almost always be using the channel divinity to deal max damage on your AoE spells. So if your intent is to be able to deal a lot of AoE damage a few times per day, I would recommend taking a look at Tempest Cleric. Tempest Cleric is also good if you would rather use a melee weapon and have divine strike than use a ranged cantrip and have potent spellcasting. And if you decide that you like Spirit Guardians, you'll want to be up in melee range. Or, you can get Call Lightning for being a Tempest Cleric and blast away with that spell every turn from range. But since I'm playing a Tempest Cleric right now, I'm partial to the class. If Tempest Cleric doesn't fit the type of role playing and type of combat that you're interested in doing, that's perfectly understandable.
As a Light Cleric, you'll still want to be somewhat close to melee range to use your Warding Flare ability and your Radiance of the Dawn ability. Some domains get heavy armor and martial weapons, but the Light Domain Cleric does not. I'm assuming that you've recognized that and you're not too interested in heavy armor or martial weapons? If you're doing a Cleric-Wizard multiclass, you'll be multiple stat dependent, so that makes doing a martial weapons based Cleric more difficult, as it would force you to have four good scores to put into Wisdom, Intelligence, Constitution and Strength or Dexterity depending on which type of armor you choose. So it's probably best to do a Cleric with potent spell casting and to put just a 12 into dexterity and save three better scores for Wisdom, Intelligence, and Constitution. Although if you roll badly (like I seem to do), getting 4 scores of 12+ is far from guaranteed.
Knowledge cleric/Divination wizard is one of my favorite combinations. Mine is currently 2 knowledge cleric/8 divination wizard but the split would be great reversed as well. My character has the investigator background and is the scholastic skill monkey of the party. Lots of tricks up his sleeve.
Cantrips: wizard - Chill touch, firebolt, shocking grasp, prestidigitation / high elf freebie - minor illusion / cleric - guidance, mending, thaumaturgy
Prepared spells (Many more in spellbook. All wizard rituals up to 4th level spellcasting)
1st level: Wizard - Shield, absorb elements / Cleric - Command (domain), identify (domain) Cure wounds (delivered by owl familiar), Bane, guiding bolt, inflict wounds, protection from evil and good
2nd level: Wizard - See invisibility, mind spike, detect thoughts (seriously good spell)
3rd level: Wizard - Counterspell, dispel magic, thunderstep
4th level: Wizard - Ottiluke's resilient sphere, storm sphere, arcane eye
He's supplemented these spells by also having a necklace of prayer beads, staff of charming and a wand of fireballs. That's a lot of extra spells and divination savant allows him to gain slots back from casting his divination spells.