The decision to screw over your entire user base is a bold one. Not sure how it makes business sense, but this isn't going to make people buy the new rules. Shocked that sustaining the user base isn't the company's main priority given the insanity WoTC has pulled in recent months.
I’ve purchased books from paizo, the best part is that it’s all free. I’ve purchased about $260 of books in the past week because of this bullshit. I’m done. Cancelled my subscription.
This also sets a very bad precedent going forward and would cause disruption and frustration every single time D&D Beyond chooses to implement a newer version. At that point the feature which keeps me on this platform (the ability to easily create and manage my characters in the way I want to) is removed I will be looking at alternatives and cancelling my subscription.
It would also be interesting if this can be tested after the Stop Killing Games initiative is passed in Europe because in essence it is removing the ability to use paid for content within the application. When I purchased these goods it was my understanding that I would have access to use this as part of the framework of D&D Beyond. D&D Beyond has previously said that they would not remove access like this and this weighed into my purchase decision.
We wish to invoke Article 17 §1 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union [EUR-Lex - 12012P/TXT - EN - EUR-Lex (europa.eu)] – “No one may be deprived of his or her possessions, except in the public interest and in the cases and under the conditions provided for by law, subject to fair compensation being paid in good time for their loss.” – This practice deprives European citizens of their property by making it so that they lose access to their product an indeterminate/arbitrary amount of time after the point of sale. We wish to see this remedied, at the core of this Initiative.
Why do people keep saying "90% of spells are the same" or "It's only a few spells that have changed" or "Just a few dozen."
This does not appear to be true.
According to a reputable source, there are 106 spells that have been mechanically changed in some way. (From what I can see here)
On top of that, in order to effectively restore your access to these original versions of spells and their functionality in the character sheet, you would not only need to homebrew these spells manually, you would also need to homebrew the following features: (As mentioned elsewhere by WolfmanRIP)
Every subclass that grants spells needs to be homebrewed
Every item that grants spells needs to be homebrewed
Every warlock invocation that grants spells - these cannot be homebrewed and will not be usable with 2014 rules
Every class that grants extra spells (mainly through the Tasha's expanded spell lists) - as far as I know these also cannot be homebrewed so will be unusable.
Every monster that casts spells will need to be homebrewed
(Adding one of my own here) Every mundane and magical item that is being changed with the new ruleset (the numbers of which are as of yet unknown)
Which is, of course, to speak nothing about the actual monetary value that every single person who has purchased digital rulebooks from D&D Beyond is losing out on.
It's been argued ad nauseam but we say it louder for the people in the back.
The vast majority of those upset feel they have been wronged because when they purchased the digital copies of these books, they bought into an agreement, understanding, promise, whatever you wish to call it, that they would be able to utilize this content, AS STATED IN THE PRODUCT DETAILS TO THIS VERY DAY, within D&D Beyond's "Digital Toolset".
When this functionality is removed from the site, those of us who specifically purchased access to use this content in the Digital Toolset will effectively have the primary purpose of our purchases ripped away from us. This is what we find unacceptable. This is what we find objectionable.
We recognize that there are people who are happy to receive these updates for free. We understand that they see this as 'getting something instead of nothing'.
But WE DO NOT SEE IT THE SAME WAY. It is clear, if you take just a brief glance around the various D&D communities around the internet that a significant majority of discourse centers around the fact that we FIND LITTLE TO NO VALUE IN THE 2024 RULESET that we will be receiving because we DID NOT ASK FOR IT AND DO NOT WANT TO USE IT.
The decisions by whatever powers that be to take a Profit focused approach (Because it is very clear that this is a push to 'encourage' long-standing members of the D&D Beyond community to spend even more money buying into updated systems they do not want or need by cutting off their access to the Digital Toolset they have already paid to use), is predatory, insulting, and a betrayal of their userbase.
What would we like to be done about it?
I would hope the answer to that question would be obvious.
Must-Have: - Creating a duplicate database for the 2014 content that, upon character/campaign creation, can be selected, via a toggle, dropdown menu, etc, as the primary ruleset for said character/campaign which would allow new and existing 5e characters and campaigns to proceed unchanged. Would be Nice: - Develop a system to migrate existing 2014 characters/campaigns to the updated 2024 ruleset for those who wish to opt-in to the new rules in the future. Pipe-Dream: - Assurances that support for 2014 content within the Digital Toolset will be protected for as long as a significant portion (Can be defined later) of the userbase of D&D Beyond still utilizes the game-system.
Please Note:I, by no means, speak for everyone who is upset by these changes, but I have seen a significant amount of people making these statements all across the internet.
If I have missed something, or misrepresented something, it is not due to intentional malice, and is very likely due to my own incompetency.
@FrostedPhoenix, well and thoroughly said. Thank you!
I'm concerned at the number of posts I read where people said they would cancel if this isn't walked back. The only language that WoTC speaks is money. For anyone who knows that if this isn't fixed they are going to cancel their subscription, I implore you to cancel now! If you have an annual subscription and the renewal date is even a month away, you can still use the tools without interruption and always reactivate your subscription if this situation is adequately resolved. If you are on a monthly subscription, I do realize this could be a major inconvenience for running your 5e 2014 campaigns in the interim, but unless there is another en masse exodus in response to this thievery, I don't think we'll ever get an adequate solution. Taking your potential future money away from their shareholders is the only thing that will get those in charge paying attention.
Yeah and I took a look at several of those spells that are specifically changing last night. You have some that are arguably better like healing spells that give you extra dice to heal, but those are the main ones that those telling us they are better are using as an example. They gloss over the fact that other spell changes are pretty bad. Even then I say arguably better because just making something stronger doesn't always make it better or balanced.
Tiny Hut can now get breached by spells of levels higher then them, I guess some didn't like casters keeping the party safe during long rests. I suppose Inflict Wounds was too strong for level 1, so goodbye one of the dice and replace attack rolls with Con saves. Or any of the conjuring spells as I get that some often tried to make encounters trivial or slow things down, but they use to be useful outside of combat for those that didn't have Find Familiar or Find Steed.
Decided to see how long it would take just to copy the known spells, not the feats/item/subclasses that give you always prepared spells. Yeah, the initial copy of each spell only takes a few seconds, but then going back & forth to see which ones were changed and then editing out Copy of for over 100 spells took much longer. Granted that after I finished I read some of them were just reworded, so wasn't necessary. That was annoying. Add in if there are more than those that the source missed that are different and then going to have to do the same for magic items and possibly those spell granting stuff. That's not even including we will have to do that again for magic items in general when the DMG release and we don't know how exactly the 2014 character sheets will be altered even if they gave us a list of what they will alter.... yeah. It's no wonder I woke up with a headache this morning. When I have time, going to back to looking into other sites. Might as well put that extra work in elsewhere.
Unsubscribed over this and will be seeking other refunds for stripping of convenience and functionality that I have paid for. Terrible decision by WotC.
Just piling on as well. Used to love DnD Beyond for the great convenience of the character builder. I don't want to change to the new version. You are destroying that convenience. Forcing "homebrew" solutions and honestly forcing ANY solutions that require more/any additional legwork from us is completely unacceptable. The current character sheets and linked spells etc need to be completely unaffected if we so choose, outside of adding a legacy label or a checkbox to enable 2014/2024 or something. Luckily, my subscription renewal date was in a couple days anyway. I will obviously be cancelling now.
I'm running a few campaigns, and planning future ones and this has really thrown a wrench in all of my plans. I've used D&D beyond for YEARS. I've spent hundreds of dollars on books, and subscriptions. No one in their right mind would think this is a good idea. Look at this thread!! There are clearly so many other viable options like toggles rather than purging 5e content. It's absolutely unacceptable. If this happens this site will become unusable to me and the rest of my groups. I may have been interested in updating to newer content later, but not in the middle of campaigns!
I love how easy this site makes character creation, and cataloguing, but I'm sick of the terrible business decisions and wondering about the future of my campaigns hosted on this site. I'm done giving money to Wizards of the Coast. You've screwed over your player base for the last time. This is the last straw for me, and I'll be cancelling my subscription.
I've read the post a couple of times. It seems to me that the 2014 books we've purchased will remain available to view, but we won't be able to use the content from them in the tools (character sheets and looking up monsters, spells, items) if they are being replaced by 2024 content even if we have not purchased said 2024 content. Is that an accurate summary?
If so, that is pretty poor service to say that all tooling will only use 2024 descriptions without regard to what someone has purchased. Since I have the 2014 version of healing word, for example, I should be able to use that in my character sheet. There should be two spells available; one for with the legacy badge and one with 2024 rules. I still own the 2014 book, right? Make it so I can use it in the tooling.
If the character builder will not support the versions of books I purchased, the really the value of dndbyond pretty much goes away. The character builder IS the best feature of dndb. Making it so it will not use my purchased content renders it useless. Back to paper sheets?
As I've said, I have already unsubscribed. They will earn it back if they make a way to make characters 2014 ruleset only and let me use the sources I've paid for.
To anyone arguing whether the 2024 rules (spells or whatever else) are *better*, that is really not the point. The point is that they are forcing these new rules on people. I do not want a new version of exhaustion on my sheet. I don't want a more powerful version of whatever spell. I want the 2014 rule that my players and I agreed to play with. I want the content I paid for to be used.
I just subscribed this summer for my first DnD campaign because my DM uses it. I considered a paid account in case I wanted to start my own campaigns or have greater access to books (I have access to everything he has), but I won't be giving WOTC a penny until the dust settles on this and I know I can actually use what I paid for. If my DM moves off of Beyond, I'll be following him.
As someone who has had a Master Tier sub for several years, it is so frustrating to be mid-way through a campaign and have to rebuild everything. I am looking forward to the 2024 content and will use it for new campaigns I run, but the games that are already in progress won’t be converting for numerous reasons. Guess I’ll just move existing characters to Roll20 and use there exclusively.
Hasbro/Wizards/Dnd Beyond are shooting themselves in the foot here - this move ONLY excludes and will drive down subs. I get wanting people to use new rules but this doesn’t incentivize anyone to start using the new content right away. Hopefully some exec figures this out that their subscriber/user revenue will drop - its not even like they’re releasing all the rulebooks in one go so people won’t really be able to play with the new rules properly for a few months while the 3 core books come out 🤦🏽♂️
If this change goes through I will unsubscribe from D&D Beyond.
The change is going through. Even if WotC was willing to change course on this, it takes a long time to turn a ship this big so anything that happens would happen months down the line after the change has been made.
Don't wait, unsubscribe and tell them why. Then ride out your current subscription and if they made the change you want them to, resubscribe.
I have already unsubscribed as so many others and would like to add my voice to everyone else that this course of action is awful and completely anti consumer. Above all, it is disrespectful to all the players and DMs who supported this game.
This also sets a very bad precedent going forward and would cause disruption and frustration every single time D&D Beyond chooses to implement a newer version. At that point the feature which keeps me on this platform (the ability to easily create and manage my characters in the way I want to) is removed I will be looking at alternatives and cancelling my subscription.
It would also be interesting if this can be tested after the Stop Killing Games initiative is passed in Europe because in essence it is removing the ability to use paid for content within the application. When I purchased these goods it was my understanding that I would have access to use this as part of the framework of D&D Beyond. D&D Beyond has previously said that they would not remove access like this and this weighed into my purchase decision.
We wish to invoke Article 17 §1 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union [EUR-Lex - 12012P/TXT - EN - EUR-Lex (europa.eu)] – “No one may be deprived of his or her possessions, except in the public interest and in the cases and under the conditions provided for by law, subject to fair compensation being paid in good time for their loss.” – This practice deprives European citizens of their property by making it so that they lose access to their product an indeterminate/arbitrary amount of time after the point of sale. We wish to see this remedied, at the core of this Initiative.
This is important as I'm sure Hasbro has forgotten that this site is far beyond the US borders, and therefore can be subjected to multinational laws of use and conduct.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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The decision to screw over your entire user base is a bold one. Not sure how it makes business sense, but this isn't going to make people buy the new rules. Shocked that sustaining the user base isn't the company's main priority given the insanity WoTC has pulled in recent months.
I’ve purchased books from paizo, the best part is that it’s all free. I’ve purchased about $260 of books in the past week because of this bullshit. I’m done. Cancelled my subscription.
This also sets a very bad precedent going forward and would cause disruption and frustration every single time D&D Beyond chooses to implement a newer version. At that point the feature which keeps me on this platform (the ability to easily create and manage my characters in the way I want to) is removed I will be looking at alternatives and cancelling my subscription.
It would also be interesting if this can be tested after the Stop Killing Games initiative is passed in Europe because in essence it is removing the ability to use paid for content within the application. When I purchased these goods it was my understanding that I would have access to use this as part of the framework of D&D Beyond. D&D Beyond has previously said that they would not remove access like this and this weighed into my purchase decision.
Initiative detail | European Citizens' Initiative (europa.eu)
We wish to invoke Article 17 §1 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union [EUR-Lex - 12012P/TXT - EN - EUR-Lex (europa.eu)] – “No one may be deprived of his or her possessions, except in the public interest and in the cases and under the conditions provided for by law, subject to fair compensation being paid in good time for their loss.” – This practice deprives European citizens of their property by making it so that they lose access to their product an indeterminate/arbitrary amount of time after the point of sale. We wish to see this remedied, at the core of this Initiative.
Cross-posting this from it's Original Thread for visibility.
Why do people keep saying "90% of spells are the same" or "It's only a few spells that have changed" or "Just a few dozen."
This does not appear to be true.
According to a reputable source, there are 106 spells that have been mechanically changed in some way. (From what I can see here)
On top of that, in order to effectively restore your access to these original versions of spells and their functionality in the character sheet, you would not only need to homebrew these spells manually, you would also need to homebrew the following features: (As mentioned elsewhere by WolfmanRIP)
Which is, of course, to speak nothing about the actual monetary value that every single person who has purchased digital rulebooks from D&D Beyond is losing out on.
It's been argued ad nauseam but we say it louder for the people in the back.
The vast majority of those upset feel they have been wronged because when they purchased the digital copies of these books, they bought into an agreement, understanding, promise, whatever you wish to call it, that they would be able to utilize this content, AS STATED IN THE PRODUCT DETAILS TO THIS VERY DAY, within D&D Beyond's "Digital Toolset".

When this functionality is removed from the site, those of us who specifically purchased access to use this content in the Digital Toolset will effectively have the primary purpose of our purchases ripped away from us. This is what we find unacceptable. This is what we find objectionable.
We recognize that there are people who are happy to receive these updates for free. We understand that they see this as 'getting something instead of nothing'.
But WE DO NOT SEE IT THE SAME WAY. It is clear, if you take just a brief glance around the various D&D communities around the internet that a significant majority of discourse centers around the fact that we FIND LITTLE TO NO VALUE IN THE 2024 RULESET that we will be receiving because we DID NOT ASK FOR IT AND DO NOT WANT TO USE IT.
The decisions by whatever powers that be to take a Profit focused approach (Because it is very clear that this is a push to 'encourage' long-standing members of the D&D Beyond community to spend even more money buying into updated systems they do not want or need by cutting off their access to the Digital Toolset they have already paid to use), is predatory, insulting, and a betrayal of their userbase.
What would we like to be done about it?
I would hope the answer to that question would be obvious.
Must-Have:
- Creating a duplicate database for the 2014 content that, upon character/campaign creation, can be selected, via a toggle, dropdown menu, etc, as the primary ruleset for said character/campaign which would allow new and existing 5e characters and campaigns to proceed unchanged.
Would be Nice:
- Develop a system to migrate existing 2014 characters/campaigns to the updated 2024 ruleset for those who wish to opt-in to the new rules in the future.
Pipe-Dream:
- Assurances that support for 2014 content within the Digital Toolset will be protected for as long as a significant portion (Can be defined later) of the userbase of D&D Beyond still utilizes the game-system.
Please Note: I, by no means, speak for everyone who is upset by these changes, but I have seen a significant amount of people making these statements all across the internet.
If I have missed something, or misrepresented something, it is not due to intentional malice, and is very likely due to my own incompetency.
@FrostedPhoenix, well and thoroughly said. Thank you!
I'm concerned at the number of posts I read where people said they would cancel if this isn't walked back. The only language that WoTC speaks is money. For anyone who knows that if this isn't fixed they are going to cancel their subscription, I implore you to cancel now! If you have an annual subscription and the renewal date is even a month away, you can still use the tools without interruption and always reactivate your subscription if this situation is adequately resolved. If you are on a monthly subscription, I do realize this could be a major inconvenience for running your 5e 2014 campaigns in the interim, but unless there is another en masse exodus in response to this thievery, I don't think we'll ever get an adequate solution. Taking your potential future money away from their shareholders is the only thing that will get those in charge paying attention.
Yeah and I took a look at several of those spells that are specifically changing last night. You have some that are arguably better like healing spells that give you extra dice to heal, but those are the main ones that those telling us they are better are using as an example. They gloss over the fact that other spell changes are pretty bad. Even then I say arguably better because just making something stronger doesn't always make it better or balanced.
Tiny Hut can now get breached by spells of levels higher then them, I guess some didn't like casters keeping the party safe during long rests. I suppose Inflict Wounds was too strong for level 1, so goodbye one of the dice and replace attack rolls with Con saves. Or any of the conjuring spells as I get that some often tried to make encounters trivial or slow things down, but they use to be useful outside of combat for those that didn't have Find Familiar or Find Steed.
Decided to see how long it would take just to copy the known spells, not the feats/item/subclasses that give you always prepared spells. Yeah, the initial copy of each spell only takes a few seconds, but then going back & forth to see which ones were changed and then editing out Copy of for over 100 spells took much longer. Granted that after I finished I read some of them were just reworded, so wasn't necessary. That was annoying. Add in if there are more than those that the source missed that are different and then going to have to do the same for magic items and possibly those spell granting stuff. That's not even including we will have to do that again for magic items in general when the DMG release and we don't know how exactly the 2014 character sheets will be altered even if they gave us a list of what they will alter.... yeah. It's no wonder I woke up with a headache this morning. When I have time, going to back to looking into other sites. Might as well put that extra work in elsewhere.
Unsubscribed over this and will be seeking other refunds for stripping of convenience and functionality that I have paid for. Terrible decision by WotC.
Just piling on as well. Used to love DnD Beyond for the great convenience of the character builder. I don't want to change to the new version. You are destroying that convenience. Forcing "homebrew" solutions and honestly forcing ANY solutions that require more/any additional legwork from us is completely unacceptable. The current character sheets and linked spells etc need to be completely unaffected if we so choose, outside of adding a legacy label or a checkbox to enable 2014/2024 or something. Luckily, my subscription renewal date was in a couple days anyway. I will obviously be cancelling now.
"2024 edition will be backwards compatible"
*deletes previous content*
I'm running a few campaigns, and planning future ones and this has really thrown a wrench in all of my plans. I've used D&D beyond for YEARS. I've spent hundreds of dollars on books, and subscriptions. No one in their right mind would think this is a good idea. Look at this thread!! There are clearly so many other viable options like toggles rather than purging 5e content. It's absolutely unacceptable. If this happens this site will become unusable to me and the rest of my groups. I may have been interested in updating to newer content later, but not in the middle of campaigns!
I love how easy this site makes character creation, and cataloguing, but I'm sick of the terrible business decisions and wondering about the future of my campaigns hosted on this site. I'm done giving money to Wizards of the Coast. You've screwed over your player base for the last time. This is the last straw for me, and I'll be cancelling my subscription.
I've read the post a couple of times. It seems to me that the 2014 books we've purchased will remain available to view, but we won't be able to use the content from them in the tools (character sheets and looking up monsters, spells, items) if they are being replaced by 2024 content even if we have not purchased said 2024 content. Is that an accurate summary?
If so, that is pretty poor service to say that all tooling will only use 2024 descriptions without regard to what someone has purchased. Since I have the 2014 version of healing word, for example, I should be able to use that in my character sheet. There should be two spells available; one for with the legacy badge and one with 2024 rules. I still own the 2014 book, right? Make it so I can use it in the tooling.
And imagine if 100s or 1,000s of us do the same — what a total waste of time and effort. Imagine if Wizards just did it once centrally?!
If the character builder will not support the versions of books I purchased, the really the value of dndbyond pretty much goes away. The character builder IS the best feature of dndb. Making it so it will not use my purchased content renders it useless. Back to paper sheets?
If this change goes through I will unsubscribe from D&D Beyond.
As I've said, I have already unsubscribed. They will earn it back if they make a way to make characters 2014 ruleset only and let me use the sources I've paid for.
To anyone arguing whether the 2024 rules (spells or whatever else) are *better*, that is really not the point. The point is that they are forcing these new rules on people. I do not want a new version of exhaustion on my sheet. I don't want a more powerful version of whatever spell. I want the 2014 rule that my players and I agreed to play with. I want the content I paid for to be used.
I just subscribed this summer for my first DnD campaign because my DM uses it. I considered a paid account in case I wanted to start my own campaigns or have greater access to books (I have access to everything he has), but I won't be giving WOTC a penny until the dust settles on this and I know I can actually use what I paid for. If my DM moves off of Beyond, I'll be following him.
As someone who has had a Master Tier sub for several years, it is so frustrating to be mid-way through a campaign and have to rebuild everything. I am looking forward to the 2024 content and will use it for new campaigns I run, but the games that are already in progress won’t be converting for numerous reasons. Guess I’ll just move existing characters to Roll20 and use there exclusively.
Hasbro/Wizards/Dnd Beyond are shooting themselves in the foot here - this move ONLY excludes and will drive down subs. I get wanting people to use new rules but this doesn’t incentivize anyone to start using the new content right away. Hopefully some exec figures this out that their subscriber/user revenue will drop - its not even like they’re releasing all the rulebooks in one go so people won’t really be able to play with the new rules properly for a few months while the 3 core books come out 🤦🏽♂️
Do it now.
The change is going through. Even if WotC was willing to change course on this, it takes a long time to turn a ship this big so anything that happens would happen months down the line after the change has been made.
Don't wait, unsubscribe and tell them why. Then ride out your current subscription and if they made the change you want them to, resubscribe.
I have already unsubscribed as so many others and would like to add my voice to everyone else that this course of action is awful and completely anti consumer. Above all, it is disrespectful to all the players and DMs who supported this game.
This is important as I'm sure Hasbro has forgotten that this site is far beyond the US borders, and therefore can be subjected to multinational laws of use and conduct.