@Cyrasil - The language is similar, but there new version shifts some of the motivations of their species. In the initial version, it sort of passively notes that they took to the stars and left the predators behind; in the new version, it ascribes that as the actual motivation for wanting to go explore the stars. The new phrasing makes escaping predators the cause of their leaving; the prior phrasing was worded such that leaving the predators behind was incidental to their journey to the stars.
It is one of those slight changes to sentence structure that has a huge difference in terms of the strict meaning of the language. Granted, most folks do not look at grammatical structure with an exacting eye, so I am sure a fair number of folks are going to say “nah, they’re the same exact thing, just phrased two different ways.”
They probably could have done more - just like they did with the penguins - but this was an emergency hot fix done rapidly to get something more acceptable out, and they clearly decided they’d rather just have one errata than a hotfix and second, permanent version (which makes sense logistically - multiple errata documents can be a bit unwieldy to folks trying to track updates to their paper versions) The changes made in the rest of the errata document are probably more indicative of what the design process will look like moving forward - making small changes with lore additions during editing (with us never seeing the first draft, so being none the wiser about what is “missing” from the final versions).
That might be true, but my main point was, that the errata is effectively a REMOVAL, not a REPLACEMENT (of the amount) of the lore.
Okay. Lemme try my hand at this, since people are SuperMegaUltra Objecting to the amount of lore. Recommendation: everybody write some hadozee origin lore. That way there's tons of it in this thread, people can take their pick of their favorite, and we can "replace" the objectionable content with a great deal more less objectionable content. We aren't under inclusivity review so do try to take care, but still. Lessee...
The hadozee originated on a jungle world in their distant past, full of dangerous and harrowing predators. Only the hadozee's quick wit, agility, and the blessings of the star goddess they worshipped allowed them to survive their homeworld's perils. Brave and curious, the hadozee sought to carve a civilization for themselves on the backs of their explorers, seeking a land where they would not have to abandon everything when one of the larger predators of the jungle located one of their small settlements. Their ancient ancestral tales spoke of a bridge to the night sky, an endless field of glittering stars where no horrors lurked in the dense undergrowth and the hadozee could be themselves, free of terror. When the first spelljammer arrived on their world, many of the hadozee saw it as a sign from their goddess and the fulfilment of their ancient tale - these curious ships were the hadozee's bridge to the stars. Many hadozee chose to leave on that first spelljammer, and on the spelljammers that followed it.
Now the hadozee are a frequent sight among the many ports of call in Wildspace and the Astral Sea. Quick, curious, alert to danger and able to maneuver easily among the rigging of larger spelljammers, hadozee make adept and valuable shipmates for those who would welcome them aboard their vessels. Many hadozee still practice their ancestral religion, traveling through Wildspace hoping to meet the goddess of the stars who propelled them from their ancient, fearful home. This goddess' name is sacred to the hadozee who still practice this religion, never spoken to those not initiated into her worship, and those who follow her worship often read the patterns and movements of the stars they can see around them to predict the mood of Wildspace in their region. These diviners contend that their hidden goddess awaits those brave and resourceful enough to find her, and hadozee-captained spelljammers are among the boldest explorers that sail the endless solar seas.
So. How's that? Do let me know if I stumbled onto something else sensitive and I'll strike the text, but regardless. Two meaty paragraphs of hadozee lore that offers some new options for building up a character from. Is that better?
The first printing of Spelljammer: Adventures in Space included two pieces of content that fans correctly flagged as offensive.
I know this is going to be unpopular, but the quality of the printed books would improve if the digital versions were released first so users can point out issues.
It's 2022, and there's really no reason to print a book with typos, let alone offensive material. But yes, I know the physical books folks will never approve.
The first printing of Spelljammer: Adventures in Space included two pieces of content that fans correctly flagged as offensive.
I know this is going to be unpopular, but the quality of the printed books would improve if the digital versions were released first so users can point out issues.
It's 2022, and there's really no reason to print a book with typos, let alone offensive material. But yes, I know the physical books folks will never approve.
I'm going to pass this along as feedback because it's not a bad idea
The issue is that wouldn't be anything like a one-week pass. The printers need time to print the books, and distribution channels need to get the things into stores around the world. The physical books are generally "finished" multiple months ahead of their release date; pushing all that work back so the digital release can act as a beta launch for the hardback means Physical Book Folks get their product three or four months after digital folk do.
And yeah - they'd scream murder over that. It's less damaging to their business to just hire some consultants and not make idiotic goofs like the Spelljammer nonsense the first time than to delay their physical runs by an extra quarter of a year to use us digital folks as beta testers.
So. How's that? Do let me know if I stumbled onto something else sensitive and I'll strike the text, but regardless. Two meaty paragraphs of hadozee lore that offers some new options for building up a character from. Is that better?
Quite good! I'm still a little iffy on the framing of essentially being 'rescued' by spelljammers, that sort of reliance on someone from without giving them a way forward, but I guess that's kind of baked into some of the themes of theirs and it's still a significant improvement over what's existed before. I think I'd like a little more give and take in that part of the story, but generally I like it and it's a big improvement, IMO.
I dunno, this reads as kind of nitpicky to me. The goal, regardless of phrasing, is to create inclusive, empowering content that draws upon a wide variety of perspectives and cultures and ideas. Quibbling too much over phrasing just gives cover to people acting in bad faith (I'm not saying that you are, just that these discussions can often get derailed by people fixating on the minutiae of terminology)
To me, Culturally Respectful sounds a lot better than Culturally Sensitive. Because, to me "Culturally Sensitive" means removal of any potentially offensive content even if it is not offensive, and "Culturally Respectful" means adding/representing culture in a non-harmful way.
I wish WOTC would focus on being Culturally Respectful, because to me it is more respectful and less offensive than Culturally Sensitive.
Why are you focusing more on people somehow possibly going overboard and being too compassionate (as if that's even a thing) instead of on the fact that hurtful things were allowed to go to publication? You're focusing on the wrong part of that and in doing so you are speaking out against compassion and empathy. Stop that. Also you're basically the first person who is using the term Culturally Sensitive, where are you getting this from? Because if you're just making up a term to then criticize that's literally the definition of a Strawman Fallacy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Quite good! I'm still a little iffy on the framing of essentially being 'rescued' by spelljammers, that sort of reliance on someone from without giving them a way forward, but I guess that's kind of baked into some of the themes of theirs and it's still a significant improvement over what's existed before. I think I'd like a little more give and take in that part of the story, but generally I like it and it's a big improvement, imo.
That's good feedback. I'd intended it to be less "rescue the primitives" and more the hadozee saying "Oh, you guys are from space? Cool! We're going too" and deciding to spelljam on their own initiative, but I can see the twinge in my write-up. Suppose in my brain Spelljamming is an exceptionally weird technology that's not likely to arise independently in multiple places so it kinna has to spread from existing sources, but that's a me thing. Good looking out.
The first printing of Spelljammer: Adventures in Space included two pieces of content that fans correctly flagged as offensive.
I know this is going to be unpopular, but the quality of the printed books would improve if the digital versions were released first so users can point out issues.
It's 2022, and there's really no reason to print a book with typos, let alone offensive material. But yes, I know the physical books folks will never approve.
I think releasing the digital content even earlier so typos & grammatical errors can be caught is a good idea, since digital editions of books can be changed, while the physical can't. However, these books should still have the sensitivity checkers and cultural consultants check them before they are released digitally. I don't think it would be fair to anyone to release digital copies of books that have not gone through processes to ensure they do not contain harmful content.
Okay. Lemme try my hand at this, since people are SuperMegaUltra Objecting to the amount of lore. Recommendation: everybody write some hadozee origin lore. That way there's tons of it in this thread, people can take their pick of their favorite, and we can "replace" the objectionable content with a great deal more less objectionable content. We aren't under inclusivity review so do try to take care, but still. Lessee...
{snipped: much lore}
So. How's that? Do let me know if I stumbled onto something else sensitive and I'll strike the text, but regardless. Two meaty paragraphs of hadozee lore that offers some new options for building up a character from. Is that better?
This is an excellent idea! When I write lore, I write a lot of lore. I'll write the lore and try and post it here tomorrow morning.
Releasing the product digitally first sounds great but as it was said above it take time to print books, ship them from point A to B and then to points beyond. So a good review group is a better way to go for larger companies, IMHO small companies can get away with it. Also in the future that may change and physical books may be a very small slice of the profit pie compared to the digital product pie. Even then though if a company has too many things slip threw it can harm their sales.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
That might be true, but my main point was, that the errata is effectively a REMOVAL, not a REPLACEMENT (of the amount) of the lore.
Okay. Lemme try my hand at this, since people are SuperMegaUltra Objecting to the amount of lore. Recommendation: everybody write some hadozee origin lore. That way there's tons of it in this thread, people can take their pick of their favorite, and we can "replace" the objectionable content with a great deal more less objectionable content. We aren't under inclusivity review so do try to take care, but still. Lessee...
So. How's that? Do let me know if I stumbled onto something else sensitive and I'll strike the text, but regardless. Two meaty paragraphs of hadozee lore that offers some new options for building up a character from. Is that better?
Please do not contact or message me.
I know this is going to be unpopular, but the quality of the printed books would improve if the digital versions were released first so users can point out issues.
It's 2022, and there's really no reason to print a book with typos, let alone offensive material. But yes, I know the physical books folks will never approve.
I'm going to pass this along as feedback because it's not a bad idea
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
The issue is that wouldn't be anything like a one-week pass. The printers need time to print the books, and distribution channels need to get the things into stores around the world. The physical books are generally "finished" multiple months ahead of their release date; pushing all that work back so the digital release can act as a beta launch for the hardback means Physical Book Folks get their product three or four months after digital folk do.
And yeah - they'd scream murder over that. It's less damaging to their business to just hire some consultants and not make idiotic goofs like the Spelljammer nonsense the first time than to delay their physical runs by an extra quarter of a year to use us digital folks as beta testers.
Please do not contact or message me.
Quite good! I'm still a little iffy on the framing of essentially being 'rescued' by spelljammers, that sort of reliance on someone from without giving them a way forward, but I guess that's kind of baked into some of the themes of theirs and it's still a significant improvement over what's existed before. I think I'd like a little more give and take in that part of the story, but generally I like it and it's a big improvement, IMO.
I dunno, this reads as kind of nitpicky to me. The goal, regardless of phrasing, is to create inclusive, empowering content that draws upon a wide variety of perspectives and cultures and ideas. Quibbling too much over phrasing just gives cover to people acting in bad faith (I'm not saying that you are, just that these discussions can often get derailed by people fixating on the minutiae of terminology)
Why are you focusing more on people somehow possibly going overboard and being too compassionate (as if that's even a thing) instead of on the fact that hurtful things were allowed to go to publication? You're focusing on the wrong part of that and in doing so you are speaking out against compassion and empathy. Stop that. Also you're basically the first person who is using the term Culturally Sensitive, where are you getting this from? Because if you're just making up a term to then criticize that's literally the definition of a Strawman Fallacy.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
That's good feedback. I'd intended it to be less "rescue the primitives" and more the hadozee saying "Oh, you guys are from space? Cool! We're going too" and deciding to spelljam on their own initiative, but I can see the twinge in my write-up. Suppose in my brain Spelljamming is an exceptionally weird technology that's not likely to arise independently in multiple places so it kinna has to spread from existing sources, but that's a me thing. Good looking out.
Please do not contact or message me.
I think releasing the digital content even earlier so typos & grammatical errors can be caught is a good idea, since digital editions of books can be changed, while the physical can't. However, these books should still have the sensitivity checkers and cultural consultants check them before they are released digitally. I don't think it would be fair to anyone to release digital copies of books that have not gone through processes to ensure they do not contain harmful content.
This is an excellent idea! When I write lore, I write a lot of lore. I'll write the lore and try and post it here tomorrow morning.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.Releasing the product digitally first sounds great but as it was said above it take time to print books, ship them from point A to B and then to points beyond. So a good review group is a better way to go for larger companies, IMHO small companies can get away with it. Also in the future that may change and physical books may be a very small slice of the profit pie compared to the digital product pie. Even then though if a company has too many things slip threw it can harm their sales.