I'm not following/subscribed to the thread - started to feel spammy a while back, too many notifications... I find it very odd that people are asking for it "closed".
If you don't like the discussion, unsubscribe from the thread... you don't see any irony in your position?
Discussion is ongoing and should be, as people are pointing out, it's been 3 weeks. The dust has barely had time to settle. I'll be keeping my subscription for the foreverseeable - at least/most until my current campaign is over. At that point, I'll probably shift to Pathfinder, or go totally crazy and... shift away from fantasy altogether.
I'm done with purchasing new "product" from Wotc and in all honesty, it's been such poor value for money in terms of actual content anyway, that I'd rather sink that money into something that I might enjoy Vs something Vs something that feels like price gouging at best.
In addition, I'd urge people to not aid Wotc with playtesting... that's the company's issue, not mine, maybe sink some money into creating jobs, not continually abusing the good will of the community?
In Hasbro's 4rth quarter earnings call to investors, Chris Cocks said “we’re in contact with the people who canceled.” What does that look like? To me, that implies a personal, targeted communication, which I have not seen. Does that mean a blog post? A crappy email blast promoting a the new heist book? I submit that nobody has contacted me about my cancellation. Hasbro's liar in chief just told his investors that they had.
As for what would be a good way to reach out to people who cancelled? A really deep discount offer of at least 50% for the next year. That's what I would like to see.
In addition, I'd urge people to not aid Wotc with playtesting... that's the company's issue, not mine, maybe sink some money into creating jobs, not continually abusing the good will of the community?
First off, asking the community to get involved with the shape of the game’s future is hardly “abusing the good will” of the community. Play testing is great for the community - it allows folks to say what they like and what they don’t before something becomes the rules (and thus before folks have to homebrew to fix problems - or debate one another on why certain parts of RAW should be ignored). The open nature of the OneD&D playtests is one of the best things Wizards has done for the community in recent memory.
Second, sifting through thousands upon thousands of responses - I think they said some 40,000 people responded to each of the playtest surveys (that’s four times what responded to their OGL survey) - takes time, which means employees. Your point about outsourcing to the community to save on employee costs is fairly laughable.
Third, maybe you should not feign outrage at outsourcing work when you have a link to AI created art in your signature. Unlike Wizards, who is not outsourcing but is rather asking for feedback which must be manually reviewed, AI art simply takes the creative work of real artists and applies a program to it. It actually is outsourcing creativity by flagrantly ripping off actual artists and trolling their copyrighted works rather than creating something itself.
In Hasbro's 4rth quarter earnings call to investors, Chris Cocks said “we’re in contact with the people who canceled.” What does that look like? To me, that implies a personal, targeted communication, which I have not seen. Does that mean a blog post? A crappy email blast promoting a the new heist book? I submit that nobody has contacted me about my cancellation. Hasbro's liar in chief just told his investors that they had.
As for what would be a good way to reach out to people who cancelled? A really deep discount offer of at least 50% for the next year. That's what I would like to see.
Are you sure he said 'The people who cancelled' rather than 'people who cancelled?' Allegedly 40,000 or more people cancelled. You figure they are going to have personal conversations with 40,000 people? Moreover, you figure that even if they did, the CEO would be handling that personally? 40,000 calls?
I am really skeptical that he said any such thing. Got something to back that up? A transcript or something?
Here is the source. Now, I do not expect him to reach out to 40,000 subscribers. But, I don't feel that I have been "reached out to" in any way. Have you? Has anyone? I mean, that's OK, I don't expect anything, but I found his statement to his investors to lack truthy substance.
As for what would be a good way to reach out to people who cancelled? A really deep discount offer of at least 50% for the next year. That's what I would like to see.
And I'd like a pony for not cancelling, can you imagine the forum meltdown if those who did cancel we were given a big reward, why it would be enough to make me cancel my subscription.
Just a note to say that I wouldn't mind seeing a breakdown of those Tiers of subscriptions.
The whole situation is a mess, I'm still... I feel burned by the experience, but I have an active campaign that I fully intend to see through.
I am highly unlikely to buy any new product - but that's more to do with my perception of the quality of product that Wotc's been putting out. For me, there would need to be a major upgrade in product quality for me to make a purchase - again, that's my view of the ephemeral thing "quality" and I genuinely don't think Wotc "care" about that. I'm likely off to Pathfinder when I see my current campaign through, but best case scenario that could me a couple of years (hopefully). As I see the situation, it's like having a partner that's cheated on you, but you share rent/mortgage and it's going to be a painful process whether or not you stay together - the trust is gone though and I'm unlikely to trust anything said by Wotc - I've just walked in on them in a "dubious situation". Now, I might be more moderate, but they've shown their hand - I'm not surprised, nor can I condemn it when people want to attack them with a furious mindset. It's understandable and their idea of making amends is? "Sorry, I won't do it again"? lol
"Let's have a baby, that'll fix the situation". That's not a reflection of my view, but I do understand the anger and Wotc need to do more than words and frankly "tough" if this is prolonged and damaging to them.
Now... I'd actually want to see some job creation - a goddamn PROOF READER or 2 for product would be a start. Product that's actually substantive and more than meager-content "splat books", stuff that's got Lore - remember that? We're nerds, we like to read, yet Wotc seem to have some aversion to that and it's dumbing down, it's not accessibility - again, we're nerds, we like to read, none of us would be here without a love of books, so give us some reading material - it's digital publishing, no one cares about "excessive" page count any more and - you know, create a job, get someone that can format... first half "book" Stat Blocks, second half lore and Bingo, you've employed a proof reader too and they're on the lookout for... I don't know... racism maybe? ...seriously though, one of the few things that would go towards fixing the relationship with this cheating ***** ;) would be seeing some job creatiion come out of it - but that's me, other opinions may vary...
The other thing, what I actually see as a bigger problem - and I'll try for succinct - movie + TV-series coming + influx of noobs (hopefully) maybe/maybe not into a poisoned community (poisoned > toxic)... Wotc need to pull something out the bag to nurture and supports players into DM's* and I really don't see them doing anything there. If Wotc actually want the game, the revenue and the community to flourish, some kind of "support" for that would go a long way to fixing my negative attitude to them.
* I've got ideas there, but I'm not paid to do research OR product development surveys to aid in Wotc gaining revenue.
So... There's a couple of things that I'd like to see that would make me think less negatively of Hasblow/Wotc.
I am highly unlikely to buy any new product - but that's more to do with my perception of the quality of product that Wotc's been putting out. For me, there would need to be a major upgrade in product quality for me to make a purchase - again, that's my view of the ephemeral thing "quality" and I genuinely don't think Wotc "care" about that.
"This company is producing bad product" isn't really related to trust. Whether or not you trust a company, you shouldn't buy something that isn't worth its purchase price. A boycott is not buying things that you otherwise would want to purchase.
I think product quality is related to trust... that's kind of the whole deal with sales and purchase of products/services.
More/less agreed, but I think the point does bear relevance. I'm boycotting into the future, due to the convergence of 2 behaviours from Wotc, neither of which I find "respectful" of the consumer. They can both be addressed and I've provided a couple of things that might change my perception.
PR-spin/corporate "humanising" in select youtube videos hasn't done that. Not for me at least and ultimately, I'll vote with my wallet and continue to feel disgruntled until "real change".
I think product quality is related to trust... that's kind of the whole deal with sales and purchase of products/services.
There's trust involved in buying a product unseen, but that's "trust that the company will produce a good product", which is pretty much unrelated to any of the OGL stuff (now, if you're failing to trust them to produce a good product because, say, Spelljammer was terrible, that's a different story).
So that's 2 reasons to distrust Wotc - but the foremost being OGL and the whole "thrust" of this thread - a boycott due to.
Yes, (my) perception of a decline in product quality is tied into that, but OGL isn't just a thing in isolation and I think it's fair for people (me) to have their opinions and express them - just as it is for you. My genereral opinion is one that Wotc have a disdain for their customer base and that covers "some" different factors. Ultimately, the market will decide.
I just think it's a shame that the next couple of years could have been "a win" for "the hobby" and we're going to have noobs coming in to a community that's "unsettled". Now... if there's any finger pointing to be done as to blame for that... it's firmly at Wotc and they've done little (for me) to assuae that and honestly, I don't think they will.
All these people just leave already. But for the love of god please stop trying to ruin it for the rest of us.
Who's down for closing this thread and moving on?
The situation's been done and over with for 3 weeks now. I think we could all gree to not having this forum on our notifications again.
Just stop following it.
No, Chris Cocks has not yet contacted me about my cancellation.
I'm not following/subscribed to the thread - started to feel spammy a while back, too many notifications... I find it very odd that people are asking for it "closed".
If you don't like the discussion, unsubscribe from the thread... you don't see any irony in your position?
Discussion is ongoing and should be, as people are pointing out, it's been 3 weeks. The dust has barely had time to settle. I'll be keeping my subscription for the foreverseeable - at least/most until my current campaign is over. At that point, I'll probably shift to Pathfinder, or go totally crazy and... shift away from fantasy altogether.
I'm done with purchasing new "product" from Wotc and in all honesty, it's been such poor value for money in terms of actual content anyway, that I'd rather sink that money into something that I might enjoy Vs something Vs something that feels like price gouging at best.
In addition, I'd urge people to not aid Wotc with playtesting... that's the company's issue, not mine, maybe sink some money into creating jobs, not continually abusing the good will of the community?
https://wulfgold.substack.com
Blog - nerd stuff
https://deepdreamgenerator.com/u/wulfgold
A.I. art - also nerd stuff - a gallery of NPC portraits - help yourself.
Just my weekly check. Has WotC tried to kill the community or VTTs this week?
In Hasbro's 4rth quarter earnings call to investors, Chris Cocks said “we’re in contact with the people who canceled.”
What does that look like? To me, that implies a personal, targeted communication, which I have not seen.
Does that mean a blog post? A crappy email blast promoting a the new heist book?
I submit that nobody has contacted me about my cancellation.
Hasbro's liar in chief just told his investors that they had.
As for what would be a good way to reach out to people who cancelled? A really deep discount offer of at least 50% for the next year. That's what I would like to see.
First off, asking the community to get involved with the shape of the game’s future is hardly “abusing the good will” of the community. Play testing is great for the community - it allows folks to say what they like and what they don’t before something becomes the rules (and thus before folks have to homebrew to fix problems - or debate one another on why certain parts of RAW should be ignored). The open nature of the OneD&D playtests is one of the best things Wizards has done for the community in recent memory.
Second, sifting through thousands upon thousands of responses - I think they said some 40,000 people responded to each of the playtest surveys (that’s four times what responded to their OGL survey) - takes time, which means employees. Your point about outsourcing to the community to save on employee costs is fairly laughable.
Third, maybe you should not feign outrage at outsourcing work when you have a link to AI created art in your signature. Unlike Wizards, who is not outsourcing but is rather asking for feedback which must be manually reviewed, AI art simply takes the creative work of real artists and applies a program to it. It actually is outsourcing creativity by flagrantly ripping off actual artists and trolling their copyrighted works rather than creating something itself.
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2023/02/hasbro-addresses-dds-ogl-misfire-with-investors.html
Here is the source. Now, I do not expect him to reach out to 40,000 subscribers. But, I don't feel that I have been "reached out to" in any way. Have you? Has anyone?
I mean, that's OK, I don't expect anything, but I found his statement to his investors to lack truthy substance.
And I'd like a pony for not cancelling, can you imagine the forum meltdown if those who did cancel we were given a big reward, why it would be enough to make me cancel my subscription.
Just a note to say that I wouldn't mind seeing a breakdown of those Tiers of subscriptions.
The whole situation is a mess, I'm still... I feel burned by the experience, but I have an active campaign that I fully intend to see through.
I am highly unlikely to buy any new product - but that's more to do with my perception of the quality of product that Wotc's been putting out. For me, there would need to be a major upgrade in product quality for me to make a purchase - again, that's my view of the ephemeral thing "quality" and I genuinely don't think Wotc "care" about that. I'm likely off to Pathfinder when I see my current campaign through, but best case scenario that could me a couple of years (hopefully). As I see the situation, it's like having a partner that's cheated on you, but you share rent/mortgage and it's going to be a painful process whether or not you stay together - the trust is gone though and I'm unlikely to trust anything said by Wotc - I've just walked in on them in a "dubious situation". Now, I might be more moderate, but they've shown their hand - I'm not surprised, nor can I condemn it when people want to attack them with a furious mindset. It's understandable and their idea of making amends is? "Sorry, I won't do it again"? lol
"Let's have a baby, that'll fix the situation". That's not a reflection of my view, but I do understand the anger and Wotc need to do more than words and frankly "tough" if this is prolonged and damaging to them.
Now... I'd actually want to see some job creation - a goddamn PROOF READER or 2 for product would be a start. Product that's actually substantive and more than meager-content "splat books", stuff that's got Lore - remember that? We're nerds, we like to read, yet Wotc seem to have some aversion to that and it's dumbing down, it's not accessibility - again, we're nerds, we like to read, none of us would be here without a love of books, so give us some reading material - it's digital publishing, no one cares about "excessive" page count any more and - you know, create a job, get someone that can format... first half "book" Stat Blocks, second half lore and Bingo, you've employed a proof reader too and they're on the lookout for... I don't know... racism maybe? ...seriously though, one of the few things that would go towards fixing the relationship with this cheating ***** ;) would be seeing some job creatiion come out of it - but that's me, other opinions may vary...
The other thing, what I actually see as a bigger problem - and I'll try for succinct - movie + TV-series coming + influx of noobs (hopefully) maybe/maybe not into a poisoned community (poisoned > toxic)... Wotc need to pull something out the bag to nurture and supports players into DM's* and I really don't see them doing anything there. If Wotc actually want the game, the revenue and the community to flourish, some kind of "support" for that would go a long way to fixing my negative attitude to them.
* I've got ideas there, but I'm not paid to do research OR product development surveys to aid in Wotc gaining revenue.
So... There's a couple of things that I'd like to see that would make me think less negatively of Hasblow/Wotc.
https://wulfgold.substack.com
Blog - nerd stuff
https://deepdreamgenerator.com/u/wulfgold
A.I. art - also nerd stuff - a gallery of NPC portraits - help yourself.
You mean like what's on the front page at https://www.dndbeyond.com/store/subscribe ?
"This company is producing bad product" isn't really related to trust. Whether or not you trust a company, you shouldn't buy something that isn't worth its purchase price. A boycott is not buying things that you otherwise would want to purchase.
I think product quality is related to trust... that's kind of the whole deal with sales and purchase of products/services.
More/less agreed, but I think the point does bear relevance. I'm boycotting into the future, due to the convergence of 2 behaviours from Wotc, neither of which I find "respectful" of the consumer. They can both be addressed and I've provided a couple of things that might change my perception.
PR-spin/corporate "humanising" in select youtube videos hasn't done that. Not for me at least and ultimately, I'll vote with my wallet and continue to feel disgruntled until "real change".
https://wulfgold.substack.com
Blog - nerd stuff
https://deepdreamgenerator.com/u/wulfgold
A.I. art - also nerd stuff - a gallery of NPC portraits - help yourself.
There's trust involved in buying a product unseen, but that's "trust that the company will produce a good product", which is pretty much unrelated to any of the OGL stuff (now, if you're failing to trust them to produce a good product because, say, Spelljammer was terrible, that's a different story).
So that's 2 reasons to distrust Wotc - but the foremost being OGL and the whole "thrust" of this thread - a boycott due to.
Yes, (my) perception of a decline in product quality is tied into that, but OGL isn't just a thing in isolation and I think it's fair for people (me) to have their opinions and express them - just as it is for you. My genereral opinion is one that Wotc have a disdain for their customer base and that covers "some" different factors. Ultimately, the market will decide.
I just think it's a shame that the next couple of years could have been "a win" for "the hobby" and we're going to have noobs coming in to a community that's "unsettled". Now... if there's any finger pointing to be done as to blame for that... it's firmly at Wotc and they've done little (for me) to assuae that and honestly, I don't think they will.
https://wulfgold.substack.com
Blog - nerd stuff
https://deepdreamgenerator.com/u/wulfgold
A.I. art - also nerd stuff - a gallery of NPC portraits - help yourself.