I don't trust them anymore. I don't trust they won't change the Fan Content Policy, or this new OGL etc in the future. The trust really has been broken. As much as Kyle loves D&D, he doesn't own it, Hasbro does, and they can make it do whatever they want. The ORC license on the other hand will be owned by a 3rd party, not c-suite execs.
To the WotC executives. Good job getting Kyle to help you. He's a lot better at this than you are.
However, you are still lying to us. We all know people received contacts for sweetheart deals based on your new OGL plans. Yet you say again that it was a draft. From today's statement directly see below.
"Our language and requirements in the draft OGL were disruptive to creators and not in support of our core goals of protecting and cultivating an inclusive play environment and limiting the OGL to TTRPGs. Then we compounded things by being silent for too long. We hurt fans and creators, when more frequent and clear communications could have prevented so much of this."
WotC needs to apologies directly for their terrible statement last Friday and for what they've tried and are still trying to do to OGL 1.0a. Using a proxy isn't going to work. You are trying to appease us while not giving us anything real. You only continue to give us words and careful evade promising to never ever revoke OGL 1.0a. Full stop. Make OGL 1.0a Irrevocable in perpetuity. Stop trying to control the toolsets. Stop trying to control the game. Stop trying to keep the backdoor open to change things later. We know you're trying to be sneaky.
You still have not won back my DnD Beyond subcription.
Kyle, thanks for at least giving off the impression you sincerely care. To WotC creatives and DnD Beyond staff, thank you for all your hard work. We're going to keep fighting for OGL 1.0a
For a "badly written document" it served surprisingly well for 23 years
The most obvious way it's a badly written document is that it enabled this entire situation by failing to define whether prior editions could be deauthorized or revoked (and no, those aren't the same thing). I'm sure it has many other flaws, there's a reason legal documents have bloated word counts.
The main flaw of it is that it doesn't look at IP in the 'traditional' way of looking at IP. Many complaints about OGL (variations of 'it lets other profit of Wizards' IP') is, of course, the point of it. From my understanding of things is that the term 'irrevocable' wasn't often used in contracts at the time. I don't know how true that is but yeah it could have been a bit clearer.
However, you are still lying to us. We all know people received contacts for sweetheart deals based on your new OGL plans. Yet you say again that it was a draft.
That's not a lie. A contract is a draft until it's actually agreed to, it's perfectly common to have multiple drafts that vary widely and are seen by both sides during contract negotiation.
It's really not a hard fix for them. Just make the GSL 2.0 for 6e and on. Done and dusted. Everyone would be happy with that. They get to tank their new system into the ground like they wanted, and they leave 5e for those who want to stay.
I see they are making some concessions, good to know they now only want to take one of my balls rather both
Personally I just want something that 100% protects the original OGL as is or they will adopt ORC both I see as highly unlikely as well as admitting the lies, again not likely, can't build trust again unless they admit it
I will stay unsubbed but may consider coming back if they do the above
However, you are still lying to us. We all know people received contacts for sweetheart deals based on your new OGL plans. Yet you say again that it was a draft.
That's not a lie. A contract is a draft until it's actually agreed to, it's perfectly common to have multiple drafts that vary widely and are seen by both sides during contract negotiation.
"You are technically correct. The BEST kind of correct!" - Hasbro PR and legal teams (probably)
By the way, as long as the "30 days notice until change" clause remains in any variation (no matter the length of time) in the new OGL, having the community feedback doesn't amout to anything. Because WotC can still change the license anytime. We shouldn't forget that.
Better than the first response, but I will remain unsubscribed until I see a final document that doesn't screw over the community at large.
It's not a good sign that the post itself has comments turned off. I know they don't want people to poison the well with negative comments, but if I can tell you how and when you can speak to me then we're not really having a conversation. Maybe they're listening to the real conversations happening here and elsewhere, or maybe it's just smoke and mirrors. I wish I trusted them even this far.
Still waiting for a response to the leaked subscription hikes. I have friends who have purchased a lot of content in the marketplace who did not cancel their DNDBeyond subscriptions until that leak.
It seems to me a good solution to ask for our feedback. There will be those who continue to bite, but really the best way to give our opinion will be in that survey. Be wise.
There will be no changes. You will not monetize D&D further. Your entire suit department will resign. The next leaders will respect the OGL1.0a, the players and all the content creators and not bring up this kind of nonsense anymore.
You think this is negotiable? It isn't. End of message.
Make any OGL you want to. Just make sure it is for OneD&D and leave the previous editions alone. That's all I want. And it has nothing to do with how awful I think 6th edition looks, honest.
Reading between the lines, what they left out in the statement are the things they don't intend to budge about. Which would still be pretty bad for the Community.
For a "badly written document" it served surprisingly well for 23 years
The most obvious way it's a badly written document is that it enabled this entire situation by failing to define whether prior editions could be deauthorized or revoked (and no, those aren't the same thing). I'm sure it has many other flaws, there's a reason legal documents have bloated word counts.
There's no secret magic word that can prevent a solicitor from trying to change something.
I own > $600 in digital content and turned off my subscription under the assumption I'd still be able to access the content I paid for. They aren't hiding paid content behind a second paywall, are they?
Yes, this new statement looks nice. Too bad for WotC that everything immediately prior to it has completely destroyed any trust I had in them as a corporate entity to not be total scumbags. Or more likely Hasbro as I'm willing to believe this was all prompted by executive Mommy and Daddy at the parent corporation demanding they lock down maximum possible profits, but the result is the same.
As others have said, I won't believe a single word apology or attempted reconciliation until there are legally binding and irrevocable guarantees put in place to protect content creators of all sorts from every bit of BS that the leaked version of updated OGL was going after. Content creators who promote the D&D brand with their very existence, or at least they did until the recent self foot shooting of this entire absurd mess. No loopholes to opt out and unilaterally alter the "agreement" at any time, ever.
And I also want an apology for the first half cocked "apology" and it's absurd excuses as to the supposed noble intentions and especially the "we didn't lose this is a victory for everybody including the executives who totally didn't want to lock down complete control of the community" nonsense. Those words are an insult to the intelligence of everyone they're being directed at.
There will be no changes. You will not monetize D&D further. Your entire suit department will resign. The next leaders will respect the OGL1.0a, the players and all the content creators and not bring up this kind of nonsense anymore.
You think this is negotiable? It isn't. End of message.
I disagree. Why should we stop at the resignations of one group of nameless executives or suits? I demand everyone resigns, including Hadoken, and we all move blissfully into complete poverty to stop corporate greed and save D&D!
Whose with me? Let's go starve in the streets boys!
Still waiting for a response to the leaked subscription hikes. I have friends who have purchased a lot of content in the marketplace who did not cancel their DNDBeyond subscriptions until that leak.
I don't trust them anymore. I don't trust they won't change the Fan Content Policy, or this new OGL etc in the future. The trust really has been broken. As much as Kyle loves D&D, he doesn't own it, Hasbro does, and they can make it do whatever they want. The ORC license on the other hand will be owned by a 3rd party, not c-suite execs.
To the WotC executives. Good job getting Kyle to help you. He's a lot better at this than you are.
However, you are still lying to us. We all know people received contacts for sweetheart deals based on your new OGL plans. Yet you say again that it was a draft. From today's statement directly see below.
"Our language and requirements in the draft OGL were disruptive to creators and not in support of our core goals of protecting and cultivating an inclusive play environment and limiting the OGL to TTRPGs. Then we compounded things by being silent for too long. We hurt fans and creators, when more frequent and clear communications could have prevented so much of this."
WotC needs to apologies directly for their terrible statement last Friday and for what they've tried and are still trying to do to OGL 1.0a. Using a proxy isn't going to work. You are trying to appease us while not giving us anything real. You only continue to give us words and careful evade promising to never ever revoke OGL 1.0a. Full stop. Make OGL 1.0a Irrevocable in perpetuity. Stop trying to control the toolsets. Stop trying to control the game. Stop trying to keep the backdoor open to change things later. We know you're trying to be sneaky.
You still have not won back my DnD Beyond subcription.
Kyle, thanks for at least giving off the impression you sincerely care. To WotC creatives and DnD Beyond staff, thank you for all your hard work. We're going to keep fighting for OGL 1.0a
The main flaw of it is that it doesn't look at IP in the 'traditional' way of looking at IP. Many complaints about OGL (variations of 'it lets other profit of Wizards' IP') is, of course, the point of it. From my understanding of things is that the term 'irrevocable' wasn't often used in contracts at the time. I don't know how true that is but yeah it could have been a bit clearer.
That's not a lie. A contract is a draft until it's actually agreed to, it's perfectly common to have multiple drafts that vary widely and are seen by both sides during contract negotiation.
It's really not a hard fix for them. Just make the GSL 2.0 for 6e and on. Done and dusted. Everyone would be happy with that. They get to tank their new system into the ground like they wanted, and they leave 5e for those who want to stay.
I see they are making some concessions, good to know they now only want to take one of my balls rather both
Personally I just want something that 100% protects the original OGL as is or they will adopt ORC both I see as highly unlikely as well as admitting the lies, again not likely, can't build trust again unless they admit it
I will stay unsubbed but may consider coming back if they do the above
---
Jay
"You are technically correct. The BEST kind of correct!" - Hasbro PR and legal teams (probably)
By the way, as long as the "30 days notice until change" clause remains in any variation (no matter the length of time) in the new OGL, having the community feedback doesn't amout to anything. Because WotC can still change the license anytime. We shouldn't forget that.
Well, the c-suite has selected their sacrificial lamb to keep them from experiencing any direct consequences.
And, "cool story, bro". See you all ~February 1st to see if they actually acted on anything in that statement.
Better than the first response, but I will remain unsubscribed until I see a final document that doesn't screw over the community at large.
It's not a good sign that the post itself has comments turned off. I know they don't want people to poison the well with negative comments, but if I can tell you how and when you can speak to me then we're not really having a conversation. Maybe they're listening to the real conversations happening here and elsewhere, or maybe it's just smoke and mirrors. I wish I trusted them even this far.
Still waiting for a response to the leaked subscription hikes. I have friends who have purchased a lot of content in the marketplace who did not cancel their DNDBeyond subscriptions until that leak.
Get off my lawn or roll for initiative!
It seems to me a good solution to ask for our feedback. There will be those who continue to bite, but really the best way to give our opinion will be in that survey. Be wise.
Here's the short and simple of it WotC:
There will be no changes. You will not monetize D&D further. Your entire suit department will resign.
The next leaders will respect the OGL1.0a, the players and all the content creators and not bring up this kind of nonsense anymore.
You think this is negotiable? It isn't. End of message.
Make any OGL you want to. Just make sure it is for OneD&D and leave the previous editions alone. That's all I want. And it has nothing to do with how awful I think 6th edition looks, honest.
I think you're entirely correct.
There's no secret magic word that can prevent a solicitor from trying to change something.
Fantasy Grounds Ultimate Licence Holder
If they are truly contrite:
It still doesn't win me back to Beyond unless there is great sustainment and tool development and they don't want $360/year.
I am subscribed out, people. No more just blindly giving people dollars per month. I am done unless it just exceeds expectations.
I own > $600 in digital content and turned off my subscription under the assumption I'd still be able to access the content I paid for. They aren't hiding paid content behind a second paywall, are they?
Yes, this new statement looks nice. Too bad for WotC that everything immediately prior to it has completely destroyed any trust I had in them as a corporate entity to not be total scumbags. Or more likely Hasbro as I'm willing to believe this was all prompted by executive Mommy and Daddy at the parent corporation demanding they lock down maximum possible profits, but the result is the same.
As others have said, I won't believe a single word apology or attempted reconciliation until there are legally binding and irrevocable guarantees put in place to protect content creators of all sorts from every bit of BS that the leaked version of updated OGL was going after. Content creators who promote the D&D brand with their very existence, or at least they did until the recent self foot shooting of this entire absurd mess. No loopholes to opt out and unilaterally alter the "agreement" at any time, ever.
And I also want an apology for the first half cocked "apology" and it's absurd excuses as to the supposed noble intentions and especially the "we didn't lose this is a victory for everybody including the executives who totally didn't want to lock down complete control of the community" nonsense. Those words are an insult to the intelligence of everyone they're being directed at.
I disagree. Why should we stop at the resignations of one group of nameless executives or suits? I demand everyone resigns, including Hadoken, and we all move blissfully into complete poverty to stop corporate greed and save D&D!
Whose with me? Let's go starve in the streets boys!
And these days rumors are leaks, lol.
Since it was accompanied by a NDA, we don't know how many signed it (if any). It is a contract, but may not be fully executed by all parties.
Get off my lawn or roll for initiative!