Damn, this topic really exploded while I was away lol. Very interesting reading through the opinions, not enough time to respond to all but I think most that can be said has been said.
I think so far the conclusion seems that the opinion of this really boils down to whether you understand the quote posted by Varek_Cellarbrew or not.
I also like the observation that the motivation for including 6f is mainly monetary, just a way to shut down competitors...but I don't fully agree with, I think there is definitely a political motivation to do so, and the whole "protecting the company image" is definitely bullshit. WotC right now has all the tools they need to cut ties and protect themselves, people using the TSR/Ernie situation don't understand what's going on because that's not related to OGL and actually an example showing WotC doesn't this to protect their brand.
JK Rowling has displayed "hateful conduct" (in this case: being the 'wrong' kind of feminist)
No, people have advocated not giving money to JKR because she's a huge bigot and promotes hatred against certain women. There's nothing feminist about that. The fact that she gets the money by exploiting fan created content has nothing to do with the fact that JKR is a huge bigot.
Just responding to this quickly because it's calling out something I said specifically. Technically I'm correct no matter what way you look at it, want to know why? Look up what the F in TERF stands for. However you missed the point of that paragraph. The point was that certain activists(media, some fringe groups, etc.) were trying to shut something fanslove (gamers and HP fans buying it in record numbers) while both the creator (Warner Bros) and the content (Hogwarts Leg) have absolutely no relation whatsoever with the problem (JKR). That little sequence of the (hateful) mob targeting something unrelated, by someone unrelated, (for which they aren't even the target audience lol) for "hateful conduct" is yet another plague in this particular Pandora-box. Whether or not JKR is the second coming of Josheph Goebbels or a just someone with a different opinion from you.....that is a whole 'nother discussion (and, for civilized people, it is a discussion - or can be any way) that has nothing to do with the issue at hand nor D&D in general so I'm not being drawn into that lol.
I mean I feel like JKR is more ignorant that malicious on the whole thing, and yes she needs to be educated, but she has also been an LGB ally for many year, and it's a whole goddamn mess.
Damn, this topic really exploded while I was away lol. Very interesting reading through the opinions, not enough time to respond to all but I think most that can be said has been said.
I think so far the conclusion seems that the opinion of this really boils down to whether you understand the quote posted by Varek_Cellarbrew or not.
I also like the observation that the motivation for including 6f is mainly monetary, just a way to shut down competitors...but I don't fully agree with, I think there is definitely a political motivation to do so, and the whole "protecting the company image" is definitely bullshit. WotC right now has all the tools they need to cut ties and protect themselves, people using the TSR/Ernie situation don't understand what's going on because that's not related to OGL and actually an example showing WotC doesn't this to protect their brand.
JK Rowling has displayed "hateful conduct" (in this case: being the 'wrong' kind of feminist)
No, people have advocated not giving money to JKR because she's a huge bigot and promotes hatred against certain women. There's nothing feminist about that. The fact that she gets the money by exploiting fan created content has nothing to do with the fact that JKR is a huge bigot.
Just responding to this quickly because it's calling out something I said specifically. Technically I'm correct no matter what way you look at it, want to know why? Look up what the F in TERF stands for. However you missed the point of that paragraph. The point was that certain activists(media, some fringe groups, etc.) were trying to shut something fanslove (gamers and HP fans buying it in record numbers) while both the creator (Warner Bros) and the content (Hogwarts Leg) have absolutely no relation whatsoever with the problem (JKR). That little sequence of the (hateful) mob targeting something unrelated, by someone unrelated, (for which they aren't even the target audience lol) for "hateful conduct" is yet another plague in this particular Pandora-box. Whether or not JKR is the second coming of Josheph Goebbels or a just someone with a different opinion from you.....that is a whole 'nother discussion (and, for civilized people, it is a discussion - or can be any way) that has nothing to do with the issue at hand nor D&D in general so I'm not being drawn into that lol.
You made a lot of direct statements about a subject you aren't being drawn in to. It is almost as if you wanted to state your opinion on it but not have to defend it or expand on it. Sort of like your mind was already made up.
Therefor, I will not actually address that entire paragraph out of respect for your feelings and wishes. After all, how can we be polite and mature and reasonable if we do not first practice respecting the feelings, wishes and ways in which people want to be treated? You've asked to be treated in a special way, and I will homnour your desire.
Since you did not put a moratorium on your earlier positions, I would like to partially disagree with you.
WizBro is a multi billion dollar corporation that cares only about money as an entity. As a collective system, it only serves to position itself in a way so as to provide a lgrowth in ROI for the shareholders. In fact, that is the only reason it exists.
In order to achieve this goal, it sells game prodicts. In order to make those, it employs some amazing creative people. I will not presume their motives beyond saying I am pretty sure most of them want to feed their families and make great games doing so. Seems pretty human of them.
Respectfully, the corporation only cares for what will increase revenue. and decrease expense. While individuals may have political agendas, the organism WizBro has no politics, only pragmatic approaches to making money easily. That is the light we can see 6f in. It isn't political, it is practical.
I disagree with the lack of transparency and redress, which is a thing I will say as often as necessary to ensure that both my motivations in speaking on the topic are clear and to try and win some movement on that.
WotC is starting down a slippery slope by bending the knee to the "label things as harmful" crowd. They'll burn all their hardcore fans and turn them away only to replace them with a new group of 'fans' in the name of inclusivity. Then those new 'fans' will want to debate every last detail and ascribe perceived harm where it does not exist. What's more, they'll likely grow tired of it at some point down the track, when a new thing to be offended about crops up, and move away from the game. Have fun with that, WotC.
WotC is starting down a slippery slope by bending the knee to the "label things as harmful" crowd. They'll burn all their hardcore fans and turn them away only to replace them with a new group of 'fans' in the name of inclusivity. Then those new 'fans' will want to debate every last detail and ascribe perceived harm where it does not exist. What's more, they'll likely grow tired of it at some point down the track, when a new thing to be offended about crops up, and move away from the game. Have fun with that, WotC.
As much as I respect your Anarchy symbol, and also the punk music it was originally ascribed to, I have grown enough to hate how it's being misused by hateful bigots these days. You aren't wrong. The community can do it better that the corp. But at the same time beware the community backlash if you want publish some NAZI bullshit. I miss the days wen being punk wasn't the same as being a skinhead ****-wad.
WotC is starting down a slippery slope by bending the knee to the "label things as harmful" crowd. They'll burn all their hardcore fans and turn them away only to replace them with a new group of 'fans' in the name of inclusivity. Then those new 'fans' will want to debate every last detail and ascribe perceived harm where it does not exist. What's more, they'll likely grow tired of it at some point down the track, when a new thing to be offended about crops up, and move away from the game. Have fun with that, WotC.
As much as I respect your Anarchy symbol, and also the punk music it was originally ascribed to, I have grown enough to hate how it's being misused by hateful bigots these days. You aren't wrong. The community can do it better that the corp. But at the same time beware the community backlash if you want publish some NAZI bullshit. I miss the days wen being punk wasn't the same as being a skinhead ****-wad.
It's not an anarchy symbol, and as to where you got "nazi" from I'm quite honestly bewildered. What gives?
You missed the word "enough." Evidently, there is no reason to gather information and use patterns to try to form conclusions. Better let police investigators know that.
The main issue I have with this tho is that it is not about ISIS, Kim Jong Un and Hitler 2.0. Look at the gaming industry: JK Rowling has displayed "hateful conduct" (in this case: being the 'wrong' kind of feminist) and because of that people say H'warts Legacy (a game the fanbase is absolutely creaming its pants about) should be boycotted - she is in no way associated with that game other than it being set in the IP she originally created. This is the amount of silly we are in these days. So resume: they should be able to cut ties without actually banning stuff because it is just too dangerous for the creators, what is considered completely non-controversial now can be the next "hateful" thing tomorrow.
I just want to point out, in case no one else has, that this is, in fact, a terrible example to use for overreach because 1). JK Rowling is, in fact, a bigot of epic proportions who spends a great deal of time and energy spreading her bigotry, donates money to bigoted organizations, publicly interacts with other well known bigots, and regularly seeks out small creators on twitter and sicks her fans on them. 2). JK Rowling financially benefits from the sales of Hogwarts Legacy, so the calls for a boycott are perfectly reasonable because every copy of the game sold puts money into the pocket of a woman openly and proudly involved in a hate campaign.
Damn, this topic really exploded while I was away lol. Very interesting reading through the opinions, not enough time to respond to all but I think most that can be said has been said.
I think so far the conclusion seems that the opinion of this really boils down to whether you understand the quote posted by Varek_Cellarbrew or not.
I also like the observation that the motivation for including 6f is mainly monetary, just a way to shut down competitors...but I don't fully agree with, I think there is definitely a political motivation to do so, and the whole "protecting the company image" is definitely bullshit. WotC right now has all the tools they need to cut ties and protect themselves, people using the TSR/Ernie situation don't understand what's going on because that's not related to OGL and actually an example showing WotC doesn't this to protect their brand.
JK Rowling has displayed "hateful conduct" (in this case: being the 'wrong' kind of feminist)
No, people have advocated not giving money to JKR because she's a huge bigot and promotes hatred against certain women. There's nothing feminist about that. The fact that she gets the money by exploiting fan created content has nothing to do with the fact that JKR is a huge bigot.
Just responding to this quickly because it's calling out something I said specifically. Technically I'm correct no matter what way you look at it, want to know why? Look up what the F in TERF stands for. However you missed the point of that paragraph. The point was that certain activists(media, some fringe groups, etc.) were trying to shut something fanslove (gamers and HP fans buying it in record numbers) while both the creator (Warner Bros) and the content (Hogwarts Leg) have absolutely no relation whatsoever with the problem (JKR). That little sequence of the (hateful) mob targeting something unrelated, by someone unrelated, (for which they aren't even the target audience lol) for "hateful conduct" is yet another plague in this particular Pandora-box. Whether or not JKR is the second coming of Josheph Goebbels or a just someone with a different opinion from you.....that is a whole 'nother discussion (and, for civilized people, it is a discussion - or can be any way) that has nothing to do with the issue at hand nor D&D in general so I'm not being drawn into that lol.
I mean I feel like JKR is more ignorant that malicious on the whole thing, and yes she needs to be educated, but she has also been an LGB ally for many year, and it's a whole goddamn mess.
No, she's pretty freaking malicious. Once you've seen her sick her fans on a small time trans creator, and seen that creator endure weeks of harassment by said fans, you stop doubting the malicious intent. She knows exactly what she's doing.
Damn, this topic really exploded while I was away lol. Very interesting reading through the opinions, not enough time to respond to all but I think most that can be said has been said.
I think so far the conclusion seems that the opinion of this really boils down to whether you understand the quote posted by Varek_Cellarbrew or not.
I also like the observation that the motivation for including 6f is mainly monetary, just a way to shut down competitors...but I don't fully agree with, I think there is definitely a political motivation to do so, and the whole "protecting the company image" is definitely bullshit. WotC right now has all the tools they need to cut ties and protect themselves, people using the TSR/Ernie situation don't understand what's going on because that's not related to OGL and actually an example showing WotC doesn't this to protect their brand.
JK Rowling has displayed "hateful conduct" (in this case: being the 'wrong' kind of feminist)
No, people have advocated not giving money to JKR because she's a huge bigot and promotes hatred against certain women. There's nothing feminist about that. The fact that she gets the money by exploiting fan created content has nothing to do with the fact that JKR is a huge bigot.
Just responding to this quickly because it's calling out something I said specifically. Technically I'm correct no matter what way you look at it, want to know why? Look up what the F in TERF stands for. However you missed the point of that paragraph. The point was that certain activists(media, some fringe groups, etc.) were trying to shut something fanslove (gamers and HP fans buying it in record numbers) while both the creator (Warner Bros) and the content (Hogwarts Leg) have absolutely no relation whatsoever with the problem (JKR). That little sequence of the (hateful) mob targeting something unrelated, by someone unrelated, (for which they aren't even the target audience lol) for "hateful conduct" is yet another plague in this particular Pandora-box. Whether or not JKR is the second coming of Josheph Goebbels or a just someone with a different opinion from you.....that is a whole 'nother discussion (and, for civilized people, it is a discussion - or can be any way) that has nothing to do with the issue at hand nor D&D in general so I'm not being drawn into that lol.
I mean I feel like JKR is more ignorant that malicious on the whole thing, and yes she needs to be educated, but she has also been an LGB ally for many year, and it's a whole goddamn mess.
No, she's pretty freaking malicious. Once you've seen her sick her fans on a small time trans creator, and seen that creator endure weeks of harassment by said fans, you stop doubting the malicious intent. She knows exactly what she's doing.
Hey you do remember that this is a D&D thread right not a hate on JK Rowling thread. Please stay on topic
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If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
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I mean I feel like JKR is more ignorant that malicious on the whole thing, and yes she needs to be educated, but she has also been an LGB ally for many year, and it's a whole goddamn mess.
You made a lot of direct statements about a subject you aren't being drawn in to. It is almost as if you wanted to state your opinion on it but not have to defend it or expand on it. Sort of like your mind was already made up.
Therefor, I will not actually address that entire paragraph out of respect for your feelings and wishes. After all, how can we be polite and mature and reasonable if we do not first practice respecting the feelings, wishes and ways in which people want to be treated? You've asked to be treated in a special way, and I will homnour your desire.
Since you did not put a moratorium on your earlier positions, I would like to partially disagree with you.
WizBro is a multi billion dollar corporation that cares only about money as an entity. As a collective system, it only serves to position itself in a way so as to provide a lgrowth in ROI for the shareholders. In fact, that is the only reason it exists.
In order to achieve this goal, it sells game prodicts. In order to make those, it employs some amazing creative people. I will not presume their motives beyond saying I am pretty sure most of them want to feed their families and make great games doing so. Seems pretty human of them.
Respectfully, the corporation only cares for what will increase revenue. and decrease expense. While individuals may have political agendas, the organism WizBro has no politics, only pragmatic approaches to making money easily. That is the light we can see 6f in. It isn't political, it is practical.
I disagree with the lack of transparency and redress, which is a thing I will say as often as necessary to ensure that both my motivations in speaking on the topic are clear and to try and win some movement on that.
WotC is starting down a slippery slope by bending the knee to the "label things as harmful" crowd. They'll burn all their hardcore fans and turn them away only to replace them with a new group of 'fans' in the name of inclusivity. Then those new 'fans' will want to debate every last detail and ascribe perceived harm where it does not exist. What's more, they'll likely grow tired of it at some point down the track, when a new thing to be offended about crops up, and move away from the game. Have fun with that, WotC.
As much as I respect your Anarchy symbol, and also the punk music it was originally ascribed to, I have grown enough to hate how it's being misused by hateful bigots these days. You aren't wrong. The community can do it better that the corp. But at the same time beware the community backlash if you want publish some NAZI bullshit.
I miss the days wen being punk wasn't the same as being a skinhead ****-wad.
It's not an anarchy symbol, and as to where you got "nazi" from I'm quite honestly bewildered. What gives?
Uh, the Anarchy symbol looks nothing like the inverted pentagram.....
Hey, I'm drunk and dumb at the moment...
You are correct, I still stand by the intent of my comment.
You missed the word "enough." Evidently, there is no reason to gather information and use patterns to try to form conclusions. Better let police investigators know that.
I just want to point out, in case no one else has, that this is, in fact, a terrible example to use for overreach because 1). JK Rowling is, in fact, a bigot of epic proportions who spends a great deal of time and energy spreading her bigotry, donates money to bigoted organizations, publicly interacts with other well known bigots, and regularly seeks out small creators on twitter and sicks her fans on them. 2). JK Rowling financially benefits from the sales of Hogwarts Legacy, so the calls for a boycott are perfectly reasonable because every copy of the game sold puts money into the pocket of a woman openly and proudly involved in a hate campaign.
No, she's pretty freaking malicious. Once you've seen her sick her fans on a small time trans creator, and seen that creator endure weeks of harassment by said fans, you stop doubting the malicious intent. She knows exactly what she's doing.
Hey you do remember that this is a D&D thread right not a hate on JK Rowling thread. Please stay on topic
If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.