And all POC and people from the LGBTQI+ community want to be able to enjoy the game as well. And their allies.
And they're welcome to, always have been. Nothing stopping them, and nothing needing to change for that to be the case. If they're perceiving obstacles to playing then it sounds like they're the ones bringing that to the table.
Yes, they're bringing their real-world obstacles to the game. They're bringing the prejudice they've experienced and are seeing it mirrored in a fantasy setting. They're seeing their lack of representation in the real-world and finding it mirrored in a fantasy setting. And yeah, they're bringing their real-world condemnation and seeing it mirrored in a fantasy setting.
I don't get how people are so upset by the idea that there might be gay or trans characters in D&D or that we remove inherently evil races (or species). It doesn't mean you can't have an evil Orc tribe, just like you can have an evil Human tribe or an evil fairy tribe. They're just no longer saying all Goblins are evil. And if you don't like that, you can change it at your table. So not much is changing for how you play the game, they're just changing what's published. Why is that so upsetting to people?
They're bringing extremist ideologies to the hobby is what they're doing, trying to create problems where none exist, and exerting their uncontrollable desire to make the world bend to their will rather than being respectful of the view of others. If you want to start 'removing' evil races from D&D, then you don't understand D&D. Sure, I can do what I like at my table, nothing changes that... but most of us aren't going to sit back and watch while a hobby we love is corrupted by flawed, real-world nonsense that doesn't belong in a hobby designed specifically with escaping the real world in mind. Anyone drawing correlations between aspects in the game and the real world, e.g. suggesting that orcs or drow are stand-ins for people of colour, are the ones responsible for bringing racism to the table.
What ideologies are corrupting D&D? Please, be specific.
What ideologies are corrupting D&D? Please, be specific.
The ones forcing changes like 'race' -> 'species'. I won't elaborate further as it's easy enough to read between the lines.
so you mean the folk tired of things like gygax's literal racism, because yes, he was a racist, and tired of walking into places with prejudice towards specific groups that are treated very much like they are and not feeling comfortable at that table because some dm enforces the rules that were very directly made by gygax's racism?
its been an issue for awhile, ive been playing long enough to experience and see it myself, all your doing is showing that your priviliged enough to not experience it and know how it feels
I mean was Gygax really a racist or did he incorporate Tolkien's racism into the game? Look at my name and understand how I see fantasy dwarves as a positive body identity. Ok now consider how Tolkien's dwarves adopt common anti-semitic stereotypes: Greed, Isolationism? Now consider how he based their language on Hebrew... Yeah that's a thing. But it's also literaly one of the few things that I can positively identify while simultaneously disregarding the Tolkien bullshit. I am aware of it, I won't let it stop me from being a stout and sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.
What ideologies are corrupting D&D? Please, be specific.
The ones forcing changes like 'race' -> 'species'. I won't elaborate further as it's easy enough to read between the lines.
so you mean the folk tired of things like gygax's literal racism, because yes, he was a racist, and tired of walking into places with prejudice towards specific groups that are treated very much like they are and not feeling comfortable at that table because some dm enforces the rules that were very directly made by gygax's racism?
its been an issue for awhile, ive been playing long enough to experience and see it myself, all your doing is showing that your priviliged enough to not experience it and know how it feels
No, Gygax was not a racist. Stop perpetuating the myth.
The prohibition in 1.2 does not prohibit people from making hateful content; it does not prohibit individuals from making bigoted publications. All it does is prohibit folks from using Wizards' intellectual property in their [what WotC gets define with no control, recourse, or accountability as...] bigoted content.
Inserted in Red where the issue lies...
I don't believe the problem is that most (or even a non-rounding error %) of producers want to willingly make bigoted content, in today's environment of ESG, protests, boycotts - it's just not financially viable to make this due to both the risk of negative exposure and legal proceedings, and the ever decreasing customer base who would be after this content - and as many have pointed out prior, WotC has numerous other means to control this.
The problem is (even if we don't look at how 6f could be weaponised and try to think the best of WotC) - because everyone brings their own biases to the table, nobody is going to agree on what is harmful, or even WHICH WAY it is harmful.
If someone said, "All Unregisters Gun Owners are Criminal." - In a Red State that could be considered derogatory to farmers and soldiers. - If you said that in a Blue state, or perhaps London or areas of Oceania, many would argue, "Why do we even need Registered Guns - all guns are harmful."
One of the last one-shots I wrote I loosely based it on the concept of the one of the DLC races from a very popular 4X Space game - Females were the warriors, Men were the thinkers (or in this case casters) - What if the tournament master said, "We will only accept the child if it is from the strongest mum and a smartest dad."
- In a Red State it could be interpreted as advocating for abortion/infanticide or at minimum neglect of the other children (Falling afoul of the 'No Child Left Behind' Laws). - In a Blue State the SAME Statement could be considered harmful for promoting heteronormativity.
In reality, the kingdom was wanting to re-start a Monarchy after the old bloodline was wiped out, and it was a tournament setting trying to find the best genetic parents who would be rewarded with riches and the power of the kingdom as their child would take the throne... absolutely no harm or hatred intended, just a way to facilitate the story and allow for 2 winners.
Under 6f what content creator who wants to publish into America is going to risk creating a story about acquiring guns, or finding a bride for a party member as they want to start a family, or anything exploring royal heritage, or returning a long lost stolen relic for a reward (is it due a reward, or should it be considered repatriations...). 6f, even if not weaponised still has a RADICALLY chilling effect as everything has to be read and re-read from both sides of every argument to try find anything that could potentially be considered harmful.
No matter which side of the fence one falls on, the big question is, should WotC wield the sword of Damocles hanging over any works they (or an individual employee with power within) might one day disagree with?
For a vast majority of the creators, the answer is simply No. Not because they are bigoted or racist, but because someone with different beliefs might accuse them of being so and then 1.2 allows WotC to protect their brand and pull the licence with no recourse or investigation, and that is entirely too much risk for not nearly enough reward.
And all POC and people from the LGBTQI+ community want to be able to enjoy the game as well. And their allies.
And they're welcome to, always have been. Nothing stopping them, and nothing needing to change for that to be the case. If they're perceiving obstacles to playing then it sounds like they're the ones bringing that to the table.
Yes, they're bringing their real-world obstacles to the game. They're bringing the prejudice they've experienced and are seeing it mirrored in a fantasy setting. They're seeing their lack of representation in the real-world and finding it mirrored in a fantasy setting. And yeah, they're bringing their real-world condemnation and seeing it mirrored in a fantasy setting.
I don't get how people are so upset by the idea that there might be gay or trans characters in D&D or that we remove inherently evil races (or species). It doesn't mean you can't have an evil Orc tribe, just like you can have an evil Human tribe or an evil fairy tribe. They're just no longer saying all Goblins are evil. And if you don't like that, you can change it at your table. So not much is changing for how you play the game, they're just changing what's published. Why is that so upsetting to people?
They're bringing extremist ideologies to the hobby is what they're doing, trying to create problems where none exist, and exerting their uncontrollable desire to make the world bend to their will rather than being respectful of the view of others. If you want to start 'removing' evil races from D&D, then you don't understand D&D. Sure, I can do what I like at my table, nothing changes that... but most of us aren't going to sit back and watch while a hobby we love is corrupted by flawed, real-world nonsense that doesn't belong in a hobby designed specifically with escaping the real world in mind. Anyone drawing correlations between aspects in the game and the real world, e.g. suggesting that orcs or drow are stand-ins for people of colour, are the ones responsible for bringing racism to the table.
You are doing an excellent job of exemplifying the problems you claim does not exist.
Ya know despite being an open minded person, this annoying "Crusade" on supposedly hateful content, is starting to make me dislike certain groups of people simply cause they are the cause of all this annoying BS... I just want to enjoy my game of rolling plastic clackedy clacks, im fine with orcs being a evil dumb warlike race , im fine with drow being predominantly evil enslavers with some exceptions, not for a single moment did i consider the original hadoze background bad, all i thougt at that moment was neat a race that broke free of its shackles similar to many others like gythyanki and duergar.... yet for some bloody reason all of this is now problematic despite it being a blasted fantasy world... the only content id find truly hatefull would calling for the murder or real life people of color(yes that includes white people) or lgtv people just because of who they are or who they like, as for 1.2 the clause against hatefull contest is there just to give wotc more control
And all POC and people from the LGBTQI+ community want to be able to enjoy the game as well. And their allies.
Just because you didn't consider something doesn't mean it's not there. It probably just means that it's outside of your life experience. Which is great for you, but it's not for everyone. I see WOTC (and I'm not talking about the OGL here, I'm talking about the general game evolution in recent years) as making genuine efforts to make the game more inclusive. Their motives could be any number of things, but that doesn't change that D&D has become a better game for some parts of society. And remember, we're just talking about published material. What you do at your table is your own business.
No i didnt consider something because its not there and if there are such undertones it shouldn't mater in a work of fiction its not our world (from one point of view or another every race is evil in the eyes of another within the world of DND), im not a victim and no one else is either the game has always been inclusive to everyone there is absolutely no reason to change things (the only way i could see people not being included is if a DM specifically does not like said person), and people who even saw an issue with these things were not the ones affected by them, wanna know why ? They have a spine and don't consider themselves victims. Outright hate is bad, but it was never about inclusivity cause playing dnd is not exclusive to anyone, it is for everyone
Except that it is there and you denying it doesn't change that.
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What ideologies are corrupting D&D? Please, be specific.
so you mean the folk tired of things like gygax's literal racism, because yes, he was a racist, and tired of walking into places with prejudice towards specific groups that are treated very much like they are and not feeling comfortable at that table because some dm enforces the rules that were very directly made by gygax's racism?
its been an issue for awhile, ive been playing long enough to experience and see it myself, all your doing is showing that your priviliged enough to not experience it and know how it feels
I mean was Gygax really a racist or did he incorporate Tolkien's racism into the game? Look at my name and understand how I see fantasy dwarves as a positive body identity. Ok now consider how Tolkien's dwarves adopt common anti-semitic stereotypes: Greed, Isolationism? Now consider how he based their language on Hebrew... Yeah that's a thing. But it's also literaly one of the few things that I can positively identify while simultaneously disregarding the Tolkien bullshit. I am aware of it, I won't let it stop me from being a stout and sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.
he literally was a racist, its not a myth lmao
Inserted in Red where the issue lies...
I don't believe the problem is that most (or even a non-rounding error %) of producers want to willingly make bigoted content, in today's environment of ESG, protests, boycotts - it's just not financially viable to make this due to both the risk of negative exposure and legal proceedings, and the ever decreasing customer base who would be after this content - and as many have pointed out prior, WotC has numerous other means to control this.
The problem is (even if we don't look at how 6f could be weaponised and try to think the best of WotC) - because everyone brings their own biases to the table, nobody is going to agree on what is harmful, or even WHICH WAY it is harmful.
If someone said, "All Unregisters Gun Owners are Criminal."
- In a Red State that could be considered derogatory to farmers and soldiers.
- If you said that in a Blue state, or perhaps London or areas of Oceania, many would argue, "Why do we even need Registered Guns - all guns are harmful."
One of the last one-shots I wrote I loosely based it on the concept of the one of the DLC races from a very popular 4X Space game - Females were the warriors, Men were the thinkers (or in this case casters) - What if the tournament master said, "We will only accept the child if it is from the strongest mum and a smartest dad."
- In a Red State it could be interpreted as advocating for abortion/infanticide or at minimum neglect of the other children (Falling afoul of the 'No Child Left Behind' Laws).
- In a Blue State the SAME Statement could be considered harmful for promoting heteronormativity.
In reality, the kingdom was wanting to re-start a Monarchy after the old bloodline was wiped out, and it was a tournament setting trying to find the best genetic parents who would be rewarded with riches and the power of the kingdom as their child would take the throne... absolutely no harm or hatred intended, just a way to facilitate the story and allow for 2 winners.
Under 6f what content creator who wants to publish into America is going to risk creating a story about acquiring guns, or finding a bride for a party member as they want to start a family, or anything exploring royal heritage, or returning a long lost stolen relic for a reward (is it due a reward, or should it be considered repatriations...). 6f, even if not weaponised still has a RADICALLY chilling effect as everything has to be read and re-read from both sides of every argument to try find anything that could potentially be considered harmful.
No matter which side of the fence one falls on, the big question is, should WotC wield the sword of Damocles hanging over any works they (or an individual employee with power within) might one day disagree with?
For a vast majority of the creators, the answer is simply No. Not because they are bigoted or racist, but because someone with different beliefs might accuse them of being so and then 1.2 allows WotC to protect their brand and pull the licence with no recourse or investigation, and that is entirely too much risk for not nearly enough reward.
You are doing an excellent job of exemplifying the problems you claim does not exist.
Except that it is there and you denying it doesn't change that.