Yo! so iv been thinking about it and its weird that races with natural weapons alot of the times are forced to use STR for their stat. i think any race with a NW should be able to pick if they want to use dex or str much the same way a spell caster race picks what modifier they want.
This is because melee attacks are STR based unless you are a Monk or are using a finesse weapon.
and if a monk is playing a race with a natrual weapon? its useless to them
Exceptions are a fact of any system, not a damnation of it.
fair but the fact that races with spell casting get to pick what they use so its of more use for them. letting the player pick what they want for natural weapons wouldnt be as strong as players picking their spell casting stat.
This is because melee attacks are STR based unless you are a Monk or are using a finesse weapon.
and if a monk is playing a race with a natrual weapon? its useless to them
Exceptions are a fact of any system, not a damnation of it.
fair but the fact that races with spell casting get to pick what they use so its of more use for them. letting the player pick what they want for natural weapons wouldnt be as strong as players picking their spell casting stat.
There are exceptions.
Natural weapons for Monks allows the Monk an alternative damage type. Generally speaking natural weapons are racial features that are included because they make sense not as a major component. Unless you are somehow relying on a weapon that you can only attack with once and only does 1d4 damage. Better to dual wield daggers.
I think Minotaurs and Lizardfolk get a d6. But really, DEX bonus on those wouldn't make sense.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I personally don't see an issue with giving racial weapons the Finesse property. The problem however is that a lot of racial weapons were updated to just be that race's Unarmed Strike, and giving that Dex should be a monk thing, or maybe folded into a starting feat like Tavern Brawler or Unarmed Fighting.
I personally don't see an issue with giving racial weapons the Finesse property. The problem however is that a lot of racial weapons were updated to just be that race's Unarmed Strike, and giving that Dex should be a monk thing, or maybe folded into a starting feat like Tavern Brawler or Unarmed Fighting.
If you were going to do that then why not make regular fists finesse weapons? Nope. Same for why you can't dual wield unarmed fighting. Too much intruding on Monk class features.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I personally don't see an issue with giving racial weapons the Finesse property. The problem however is that a lot of racial weapons were updated to just be that race's Unarmed Strike, and giving that Dex should be a monk thing, or maybe folded into a starting feat like Tavern Brawler or Unarmed Fighting.
If you were going to do that then why not make regular fists finesse weapons? Nope. Same for why you can't dual wield unarmed fighting. Too much intruding on Monk class features.
one person punches with dex the other is a deadly martial artist they are not the same
I personally don't see an issue with giving racial weapons the Finesse property. The problem however is that a lot of racial weapons were updated to just be that race's Unarmed Strike, and giving that Dex should be a monk thing, or maybe folded into a starting feat like Tavern Brawler or Unarmed Fighting.
If you were going to do that then why not make regular fists finesse weapons? Nope. Same for why you can't dual wield unarmed fighting. Too much intruding on Monk class features.
one person punches with dex the other is a deadly martial artist they are not the same
Which is why untrained people use STR.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I personally don't see an issue with giving racial weapons the Finesse property. The problem however is that a lot of racial weapons were updated to just be that race's Unarmed Strike, and giving that Dex should be a monk thing, or maybe folded into a starting feat like Tavern Brawler or Unarmed Fighting.
If you were going to do that then why not make regular fists finesse weapons? Nope. Same for why you can't dual wield unarmed fighting. Too much intruding on Monk class features.
one person punches with dex the other is a deadly martial artist they are not the same
Which is why untrained people use STR.
if thats the case then spellcasting races shouldnt be able to pick their casting stat bc its not their magic from their class
I personally don't see an issue with giving racial weapons the Finesse property. The problem however is that a lot of racial weapons were updated to just be that race's Unarmed Strike, and giving that Dex should be a monk thing, or maybe folded into a starting feat like Tavern Brawler or Unarmed Fighting.
If you were going to do that then why not make regular fists finesse weapons? Nope. Same for why you can't dual wield unarmed fighting. Too much intruding on Monk class features.
You realize we agree right? 😛
I just think there should be a way to access it besides a monk dip, like a feat. But not having Dex built into those baseline is fine.
be as strong as players picking their spell casting stat.
Players get to pick their spell casting class, they do not get to pick their spell casting stat for that class. Wizards do not get to pick their spell casting stat. It's intelligence. For Priests and Druids it's wisdom. Sorcerers and Warlocks use charisma. They all have different spell lists. So I don't see how allowing Natural Weapons to be Strength, Dexterity or even Constitution would be justified by spell casters having different casting stats. They're completely different classes. Should a character whose race gets natural weapons but is playing a priest get to use wisdom for their NW attacks? I wouldn't allow that. But here's the thing...
If you're the DM, it's your game and you get to do whatever you want with the rules. And you don't have to justify it to anybody but your players. I'm giving monks in my games Heavenly or Demonic (their choice) Qi points equal to their proficiency bonus to increase the amount of points for their Ki abilities. And I told my players that I did it in protest to KI being renamed DP.
So do what you want to do with natural weapons. It's your game, not ours and not Wizards of the Coast's. Your fun is not wrong, despite what the internet might say.
be as strong as players picking their spell casting stat.
Players get to pick their spell casting class, they do not get to pick their spell casting stat for that class. Wizards do not get to pick their spell casting stat. It's intelligence. For Priests and Druids it's wisdom. Sorcerers and Warlocks use charisma. They all have different spell lists. So I don't see how allowing Natural Weapons to be Strength, Dexterity or even Constitution would be justified by spell casters having different casting stats. They're completely different classes. Should a character whose race gets natural weapons but is playing a priest get to use wisdom for their NW attacks? I wouldn't allow that. But here's the thing...
If you're the DM, it's your game and you get to do whatever you want with the rules. And you don't have to justify it to anybody but your players. I'm giving monks in my games Heavenly or Demonic (their choice) Qi points equal to their proficiency bonus to increase the amount of points for their Ki abilities. And I told my players that I did it in protest to KI being renamed DP.
So do what you want to do with natural weapons. It's your game, not ours and not Wizards of the Coast's. Your fun is not wrong, despite what the internet might say.
im speaking of the races with innate spells that can pick what casting stat they want
im speaking of the races with innate spells that can pick what casting stat they want
I still don't see that being strong. If they have innate spells they're usually once a day or very weak spells and are accrued as the character levels. Tieflings get an innate Hellish Rebuke but RAW they don't get to choose the spell stat, it's Charisma. I believe Fairies get to choose, but they get Druidcraft (RAW one of the worst cantrips) and a once a day Faerie Fire and Enlarge/Reduce, with Faerie Fire being the only spell with a DC. Yuan-Ti's innate spells give them the poison spray cantrip, unlimited snake friendship and Suggestion. In Volo's Yuan-Ti were limited to Charisma but in Mordenkainen's they were allowed to pick their stat probably because they can now expend spell slots to recast Suggestion.
Natural Weapons are something that can be used repeatedly in the same combat from level one. Party is disarmed and all spell components have been confiscated? Natural Weapons still there. They just seem to me to be a lot more powerful than the few innate spells that some races get. The Dhampir's bite is increased by Proficiency Bonus and its stat is Constitution based. Being able to switch to Strength or Dexterity with the benefits the bite gives seems to me to be more OP than having a once per day higher DC.
im speaking of the races with innate spells that can pick what casting stat they want
I still don't see that being strong. If they have innate spells they're usually once a day or very weak spells and are accrued as the character levels. Tieflings get an innate Hellish Rebuke but RAW they don't get to choose the spell stat, it's Charisma. I believe Fairies get to choose, but they get Druidcraft (RAW one of the worst cantrips) and a once a day Faerie Fire and Enlarge/Reduce, with Faerie Fire being the only spell with a DC. Yuan-Ti's innate spells give them the poison spray cantrip, unlimited snake friendship and Suggestion. In Volo's Yuan-Ti were limited to Charisma but in Mordenkainen's they were allowed to pick their stat probably because they can now expend spell slots to recast Suggestion.
Natural Weapons are something that can be used repeatedly in the same combat from level one. Party is disarmed and all spell components have been confiscated? Natural Weapons still there. They just seem to me to be a lot more powerful than the few innate spells that some races get. The Dhampir's bite is increased by Proficiency Bonus and its stat is Constitution based. Being able to switch to Strength or Dexterity with the benefits the bite gives seems to me to be more OP than having a once per day higher DC.
so natural weapons should be con based? or did i read that wrong? and yea the spells are maybe once or twice a day but spells are very strong and there are alot of races with spell casting built in. also in the situation you described it sounds like the prefect time for them to use a weapon they prob arent using much anyways
Yo! so iv been thinking about it and its weird that races with natural weapons alot of the times are forced to use STR for their stat. i think any race with a NW should be able to pick if they want to use dex or str much the same way a spell caster race picks what modifier they want.
If that were the case, it would be the correct choice to choose Dex 90% of the time as Dex is the better stat.
This is because melee attacks are STR based unless you are a Monk or are using a finesse weapon.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
and if a monk is playing a race with a natrual weapon? its useless to them
Exceptions are a fact of any system, not a damnation of it.
fair but the fact that races with spell casting get to pick what they use so its of more use for them. letting the player pick what they want for natural weapons wouldnt be as strong as players picking their spell casting stat.
There are exceptions.
Natural weapons for Monks allows the Monk an alternative damage type. Generally speaking natural weapons are racial features that are included because they make sense not as a major component. Unless you are somehow relying on a weapon that you can only attack with once and only does 1d4 damage. Better to dual wield daggers.
I think Minotaurs and Lizardfolk get a d6. But really, DEX bonus on those wouldn't make sense.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I personally don't see an issue with giving racial weapons the Finesse property. The problem however is that a lot of racial weapons were updated to just be that race's Unarmed Strike, and giving that Dex should be a monk thing, or maybe folded into a starting feat like Tavern Brawler or Unarmed Fighting.
If you were going to do that then why not make regular fists finesse weapons? Nope. Same for why you can't dual wield unarmed fighting. Too much intruding on Monk class features.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
one person punches with dex the other is a deadly martial artist they are not the same
Which is why untrained people use STR.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
if thats the case then spellcasting races shouldnt be able to pick their casting stat bc its not their magic from their class
You realize we agree right? 😛
I just think there should be a way to access it besides a monk dip, like a feat. But not having Dex built into those baseline is fine.
Oh agreed, a Feat would be the best way to go about it. Seems like a third of them duplicate class features already.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Players get to pick their spell casting class, they do not get to pick their spell casting stat for that class. Wizards do not get to pick their spell casting stat. It's intelligence. For Priests and Druids it's wisdom. Sorcerers and Warlocks use charisma. They all have different spell lists. So I don't see how allowing Natural Weapons to be Strength, Dexterity or even Constitution would be justified by spell casters having different casting stats. They're completely different classes. Should a character whose race gets natural weapons but is playing a priest get to use wisdom for their NW attacks? I wouldn't allow that. But here's the thing...
If you're the DM, it's your game and you get to do whatever you want with the rules. And you don't have to justify it to anybody but your players. I'm giving monks in my games Heavenly or Demonic (their choice) Qi points equal to their proficiency bonus to increase the amount of points for their Ki abilities. And I told my players that I did it in protest to KI being renamed DP.
So do what you want to do with natural weapons. It's your game, not ours and not Wizards of the Coast's. Your fun is not wrong, despite what the internet might say.
im speaking of the races with innate spells that can pick what casting stat they want
I still don't see that being strong. If they have innate spells they're usually once a day or very weak spells and are accrued as the character levels. Tieflings get an innate Hellish Rebuke but RAW they don't get to choose the spell stat, it's Charisma. I believe Fairies get to choose, but they get Druidcraft (RAW one of the worst cantrips) and a once a day Faerie Fire and Enlarge/Reduce, with Faerie Fire being the only spell with a DC. Yuan-Ti's innate spells give them the poison spray cantrip, unlimited snake friendship and Suggestion. In Volo's Yuan-Ti were limited to Charisma but in Mordenkainen's they were allowed to pick their stat probably because they can now expend spell slots to recast Suggestion.
Natural Weapons are something that can be used repeatedly in the same combat from level one. Party is disarmed and all spell components have been confiscated? Natural Weapons still there. They just seem to me to be a lot more powerful than the few innate spells that some races get. The Dhampir's bite is increased by Proficiency Bonus and its stat is Constitution based. Being able to switch to Strength or Dexterity with the benefits the bite gives seems to me to be more OP than having a once per day higher DC.
so natural weapons should be con based? or did i read that wrong? and yea the spells are maybe once or twice a day but spells are very strong and there are alot of races with spell casting built in. also in the situation you described it sounds like the prefect time for them to use a weapon they prob arent using much anyways
I believe earlier races had their stat fixed for racial spells. It wasn’t until much later that races got to choose.
Im fine with STR for NW. as mentioned above a feat or DM homebrew could allow Dex
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Elves are still INT locked for spells.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale