With 21 sorcery points, you can give the party 441 temp HP, more if you convert spell slots.
Temp hp don't stack, and you probably aren't using your sorcery points outside of combat to prebuff, so it's not 441 temp hit points per day, it's 21 temp hit points per round of combat. If 21 hp per round breaks encounters... the DM needs to be using more dangerous encounters.
With 21 sorcery points, you can give the party 441 temp HP, more if you convert spell slots.
Temp hp don't stack, and you probably aren't using your sorcery points outside of combat to prebuff, so it's not 441 temp hit points per day, it's 21 temp hit points per round of combat. If 21 hp per round breaks encounters... the DM needs to be using more dangerous encounters.
True, but 21 temp HP per round will turn a hard adventuring day into one where the party is still at half health, or much higher if they used all of their hit dice during short rests. Hypothetically, a sorcerer could save plenty of sorcery points for a boss, quicken a spell, and Ready another, so they can get 42 temp hp per round. That might break encounters a bit.
True, but 21 temp HP per round will turn a hard adventuring day into one where the party is still at half health, or much higher if they used all of their hit dice during short rests.
It's a 14th level party. If you want to run people out of resources during an adventuring day, your encounters had better average 100+ damage per round.
True, but 21 temp HP per round will turn a hard adventuring day into one where the party is still at half health, or much higher if they used all of their hit dice during short rests.
It's a 14th level party. If you want to run people out of resources during an adventuring day, your encounters had better average 100+ damage per round.
At 14th level, characters average around 100+ hit points each, so no matter how you look at it, the NON-HEALER magic user is, more or less, doubling the party's effective health. I won't deny that the fact that they're just temporary hit points somewhat limits the use, but it's still a bit broken. After all, a cleric casting Cure Wounds wound be spending a more limited resource and only restoring 14 health. Spellfire Sorcerers give 21 health without any resource cost.
At 14th level, characters average around 100+ hit points each, so no matter how you look at it, the NON-HEALER magic user is, more or less, doubling the party's effective health.
In the unlikely event of 21 rounds of combat in a day, sure, that sorcerer could contribute 441 hp to the total. In a more reasonable 10 rounds, it's only 210. Which is certainly not negligible, but... you're not running a 14th level party out of resources with a mere 400 damage in a day. Try 1,000 damage.
I noticed that they can spend 3 focus points to gain resistance to all damage except force, which, combined with Deflect attacks, kind of makes them better tanks then Barbarians. If optimized, they'll only have about 100 less health than a barbarian, but they can ignore one attack each round, which, assuming 6 3-round combats, works out to around 270 avoided damage at 20th level.
So the thing about Monk is -- yes, if you're deflecting every round then you're soaking a lot of incoming damage. But doing that eats your Reaction, which means you're giving up one of the primary benefits of being a melee character, i.e. punishing enemies with Opportunity Attacks if they try to move around you to get to your squishier allies, who are probably also concentrating on something valuable. This is especially true if your OA has a rider on it like the Barbarian's probably does via something like Push or Topple. So when you say "better tanks than barbarians" you need to consider that aspect of things too. D&D isn't an MMO where the tank's only job is mitigation, because D&D enemies don't have a mindless aggro table - tanks in D&D generally need to keep enemies from walking around them to be effective too.
At last count there were 431,002,675 ways to get piles of temp hit points in 2024 D&D, one more method wont break the game. It may be incredibly lame they have that many temp hit point methods, but 1 more wont break that. Though that subclass is pretty powerful once they hit 14/ Spellfire burst at 14 means every time they use a spell 20 extra damage to a target. With the spell they are casting, potentially increased in damage from metamagic with an extra 20 damage to 1 target that may be bumping their fairly consistent single target damage above martial single target damage. And that is kind of screwy. Not sure its better than other ones, I just don't like that boost to single target damage on a caster. The temp hit points don't feel as toe stepping to me given how many ways exist including ones any class/subclass can do.
The problem with any type of tanking, though, is that it assumes your character is the one being hit. Since there is no effective taunt skill or ability in game, that is hardly a given.
I'd argue the bigger advantage to a monk (or barbarian) as a tank is that they typically have better ground speed so can potentially get to melee range with the enemy first, pinning them down at least to the extent of threatening opportunity attacks if they go after anyone else. Also, what about a barbarian/monk? They cannot cast during rage, but Ki abilities are not spells....
The problem with any type of tanking, though, is that it assumes your character is the one being hit. Since there is no effective taunt skill or ability in game, that is hardly a given.
I'd argue the bigger advantage to a monk (or barbarian) as a tank is that they typically have better ground speed so can potentially get to melee range with the enemy first, pinning them down at least to the extent of threatening opportunity attacks if they go after anyone else. Also, what about a barbarian/monk? They cannot cast during rage, but Ki abilities are not spells....
The difficulty with Barbarian/Monk is (a) they're extra MAD since you need 13 Str, Dex, and Wis as well as decent Con, and (b) there isn't much synergy even if you jump through that hoop because their unarmed defenses don't stack.
The problem with any type of tanking, though, is that it assumes your character is the one being hit. Since there is no effective taunt skill or ability in game, that is hardly a given.
I'd argue the bigger advantage to a monk (or barbarian) as a tank is that they typically have better ground speed so can potentially get to melee range with the enemy first, pinning them down at least to the extent of threatening opportunity attacks if they go after anyone else. Also, what about a barbarian/monk? They cannot cast during rage, but Ki abilities are not spells....
The difficulty with Barbarian/Monk is (a) they're extra MAD since you need 13 Str, Dex, and Wis as well as decent Con, and (b) there isn't much synergy even if you jump through that hoop because their unarmed defenses don't stack.
Pray that you roll great for this combo. Otherwise your statement is true. Or play a human and take tough feat as well, if you are going point buy.
Yeah, I’ve noticed that too, 2024 Monks definitely got a big glow-up. Their new scaling, Focus Point options, and defensive features make them surprisingly durable, especially with the right subclass and gear. That said, Barbarians still shine in sustained damage soaking and raw HP. I think balance will depend on how DMs handle encounter pacing and short rests. Overall, though, I’d say Monks finally feel powerful, maybe too powerful in some builds.
I noticed that they can spend 3 focus points to gain resistance to all damage except force, which, combined with Deflect attacks, kind of makes them better tanks then Barbarians. If optimized, they'll only have about 100 less health than a barbarian, but they can ignore one attack each round, which, assuming 6 3-round combats, works out to around 270 avoided damage at 20th level.
When you say "overtuned", what does that mean exactly? Broken? Overpowered?
The new Monk starts off as weak, having the same HP as the Cleric and Druid, but from there he gets better at avoiding/minimizing damage as you pointed out with Deflect Atacks and Superior Defense, but they also have Evasion, Deflect Energy, Re-roll a failed saving throw, Give themselves Proficiency in ALL saving throws and give themselves some hit points or Temp Hit Points at will. Finally, if they are low or out of Focus Points , they can will themselves some more at the beginning of a new initiative, if no short rest/long rest has been given yet. Of course the features are only when you get 10th level and higher. And that's just the base Monk, not the sub-classes.
Most players will never get past Level 13th level to see Deflect Energy or enjoy Superior Defense or Discipline Survivor at higher levels.
The problem with any type of tanking, though, is that it assumes your character is the one being hit. Since there is no effective taunt skill or ability in game, that is hardly a given.
I'd argue the bigger advantage to a monk (or barbarian) as a tank is that they typically have better ground speed so can potentially get to melee range with the enemy first, pinning them down at least to the extent of threatening opportunity attacks if they go after anyone else. Also, what about a barbarian/monk? They cannot cast during rage, but Ki abilities are not spells....
The difficulty with Barbarian/Monk is (a) they're extra MAD since you need 13 Str, Dex, and Wis as well as decent Con, and (b) there isn't much synergy even if you jump through that hoop because their unarmed defenses don't stack.
There's no difficulty at all. In fact Monks would benefit from rage's BPS resistance as well as the additional hit points. You can easily dip with just a +1 increase in Str to 13, and continue leveling up as you normally would as a Monk by increasing your Dex, and then Wis once that's maxed at 20. You aren't raging all day, so whatever spells your subclass can use, you use. EZ PZ.
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Temp hp don't stack, and you probably aren't using your sorcery points outside of combat to prebuff, so it's not 441 temp hit points per day, it's 21 temp hit points per round of combat. If 21 hp per round breaks encounters... the DM needs to be using more dangerous encounters.
True, but 21 temp HP per round will turn a hard adventuring day into one where the party is still at half health, or much higher if they used all of their hit dice during short rests. Hypothetically, a sorcerer could save plenty of sorcery points for a boss, quicken a spell, and Ready another, so they can get 42 temp hp per round. That might break encounters a bit.
It's a 14th level party. If you want to run people out of resources during an adventuring day, your encounters had better average 100+ damage per round.
At 14th level, characters average around 100+ hit points each, so no matter how you look at it, the NON-HEALER magic user is, more or less, doubling the party's effective health. I won't deny that the fact that they're just temporary hit points somewhat limits the use, but it's still a bit broken. After all, a cleric casting Cure Wounds wound be spending a more limited resource and only restoring 14 health. Spellfire Sorcerers give 21 health without any resource cost.
In the unlikely event of 21 rounds of combat in a day, sure, that sorcerer could contribute 441 hp to the total. In a more reasonable 10 rounds, it's only 210. Which is certainly not negligible, but... you're not running a 14th level party out of resources with a mere 400 damage in a day. Try 1,000 damage.
So the thing about Monk is -- yes, if you're deflecting every round then you're soaking a lot of incoming damage. But doing that eats your Reaction, which means you're giving up one of the primary benefits of being a melee character, i.e. punishing enemies with Opportunity Attacks if they try to move around you to get to your squishier allies, who are probably also concentrating on something valuable. This is especially true if your OA has a rider on it like the Barbarian's probably does via something like Push or Topple. So when you say "better tanks than barbarians" you need to consider that aspect of things too. D&D isn't an MMO where the tank's only job is mitigation, because D&D enemies don't have a mindless aggro table - tanks in D&D generally need to keep enemies from walking around them to be effective too.
At last count there were 431,002,675 ways to get piles of temp hit points in 2024 D&D, one more method wont break the game. It may be incredibly lame they have that many temp hit point methods, but 1 more wont break that. Though that subclass is pretty powerful once they hit 14/ Spellfire burst at 14 means every time they use a spell 20 extra damage to a target. With the spell they are casting, potentially increased in damage from metamagic with an extra 20 damage to 1 target that may be bumping their fairly consistent single target damage above martial single target damage. And that is kind of screwy. Not sure its better than other ones, I just don't like that boost to single target damage on a caster. The temp hit points don't feel as toe stepping to me given how many ways exist including ones any class/subclass can do.
The problem with any type of tanking, though, is that it assumes your character is the one being hit. Since there is no effective taunt skill or ability in game, that is hardly a given.
I'd argue the bigger advantage to a monk (or barbarian) as a tank is that they typically have better ground speed so can potentially get to melee range with the enemy first, pinning them down at least to the extent of threatening opportunity attacks if they go after anyone else. Also, what about a barbarian/monk? They cannot cast during rage, but Ki abilities are not spells....
The difficulty with Barbarian/Monk is (a) they're extra MAD since you need 13 Str, Dex, and Wis as well as decent Con, and (b) there isn't much synergy even if you jump through that hoop because their unarmed defenses don't stack.
Pray that you roll great for this combo. Otherwise your statement is true. Or play a human and take tough feat as well, if you are going point buy.
Looks at monk stats nope still not full casters they are on the weak end
The short answer is no.
Yeah, I’ve noticed that too, 2024 Monks definitely got a big glow-up. Their new scaling, Focus Point options, and defensive features make them surprisingly durable, especially with the right subclass and gear. That said, Barbarians still shine in sustained damage soaking and raw HP. I think balance will depend on how DMs handle encounter pacing and short rests. Overall, though, I’d say Monks finally feel powerful, maybe too powerful in some builds.
When you say "overtuned", what does that mean exactly? Broken? Overpowered?
The new Monk starts off as weak, having the same HP as the Cleric and Druid, but from there he gets better at avoiding/minimizing damage as you pointed out with Deflect Atacks and Superior Defense, but they also have Evasion, Deflect Energy, Re-roll a failed saving throw, Give themselves Proficiency in ALL saving throws and give themselves some hit points or Temp Hit Points at will. Finally, if they are low or out of Focus Points , they can will themselves some more at the beginning of a new initiative, if no short rest/long rest has been given yet. Of course the features are only when you get 10th level and higher. And that's just the base Monk, not the sub-classes.
Most players will never get past Level 13th level to see Deflect Energy or enjoy Superior Defense or Discipline Survivor at higher levels.
There's no difficulty at all. In fact Monks would benefit from rage's BPS resistance as well as the additional hit points. You can easily dip with just a +1 increase in Str to 13, and continue leveling up as you normally would as a Monk by increasing your Dex, and then Wis once that's maxed at 20. You aren't raging all day, so whatever spells your subclass can use, you use. EZ PZ.