It's essentially 40d6 damage to 20,000 square feet. If my maths doesn't fail me...
Are you calculating four points that have 40ft radius spheres?
Circles. I know technically they're spheres (let's not get into the rabbit hole of mathematical definitions), but the vast majority of the time, we're dealing with targets on the ground, so circles centred on those points are the best model. If there are additional targets in the air etc, then that just supports my point even further.
Okay glad you clarified, because going from the Spell Description for spheres, your math is way off. :)
It's essentially 40d6 damage to 20,000 square feet. If my maths doesn't fail me...
Are you calculating four points that have 40ft radius spheres?
Circles. I know technically they're spheres (let's not get into the rabbit hole of mathematical definitions), but the vast majority of the time, we're dealing with targets on the ground, so circles centred on those points are the best model. If there are additional targets in the air etc, then that just supports my point even further.
Okay glad you clarified, because going from the Spell Description for spheres, your math is way off. :)
It's very rare that the vertical aspect of AoEs like that is relevant in typical play, although admittedly by the time you're casting Meteor Swarm there is a higher chance you're dealing with something relevant, such as a hostile force with flying elements.
Point. Situationally 2024 Weird, Psychic Scream, and Blade of Disaster could all be better picks on a character that can use Meteor Swarm. My point was just towards raw instantaneous damage output and AoE.
I have trouble thinking of a situation where I'd pick Weird. Blade of Disaster has some very specialized use cases, either where you have an ability to cast a spell without using a spell slot (and thus the bonus action helps a lot), or where 'pass through any barrier' is an asset (there are typically better solutions to a wall of force, but not to a prismatic wall), but probably not a spell I'd routinely prepare. Power word kill also has specialized uses, when dealing with enemies where simply reducing them to 0 hp won't kill them, but again, not something to routinely prepare.
Point. Situationally 2024 Weird, Psychic Scream, and Blade of Disaster could all be better picks on a character that can use Meteor Swarm. My point was just towards raw instantaneous damage output and AoE.
I have trouble thinking of a situation where I'd pick Weird. Blade of Disaster has some very specialized use cases, either where you have an ability to cast a spell without using a spell slot (and thus the bonus action helps a lot), or where 'pass through any barrier' is an asset (there are typically better solutions to a wall of force, but not to a prismatic wall), but probably not a spell I'd routinely prepare. Power word kill also has specialized uses, when dealing with enemies where simply reducing them to 0 hp won't kill them, but again, not something to routinely prepare.
2024 Weird has a range advantage since you get a 30 ft AoE emanating from a 120 ft range, no target limit, and higher initial damage with a chance for it to further tick up if they fail saves. Doesn't set up targets for the party, but for hitting a clump of enemies at a distance it's better than Psychic Scream and much more discreet and easier on local property values than Meteor Swarm.
Regarding Blade of Disaster, that'd be my go-to if I want to just carve away at a boss- with 60 ft of range I can cast and step back if I'm worried about attacks and then I've got a solid chunk of bonus damage on top of whatever blasts I'm tossing. Really, the simple fact it's attack rolls rather than a save makes it pretty attractive against 4th tier bosses imo.
Within the scope of any core 9th level spell that's intended to be direct damage, the 40d6 (avg 140) immediate damage of Meteor Swarm is far and away the strongest effect.
I might take psychic scream over meteor swarm, but that's because it's a mass stun effect against a save an awful lot of monsters (and characters) are bad at.
Point. Situationally 2024 Weird, Psychic Scream, and Blade of Disaster could all be better picks on a character that can use Meteor Swarm. My point was just towards raw instantaneous damage output and AoE.
The main advantage they have over meteor swarm is that it's much easier to avoid nuking your party with them.
(Relatedly, I think the evocation wizard power was a mistake.)
(Relatedly, I think the evocation wizard power was a mistake.)
I'm curious if you think the metamagic is a problem too, or if the fact that it uses resources and is a choice a sorcerer has to make to take makes it fine (assuming you're talking about that feature, that is).
(Relatedly, I think the evocation wizard power was a mistake.)
I'm curious if you think the metamagic is a problem too, or if the fact that it uses resources and is a choice a sorcerer has to make to take makes it fine (assuming you're talking about that feature, that is).
Probably, but I haven't seen it in action as much yet.
But letting casters throw the highest-damage area-effect spells around without worrying about collateral damage means that the less-efficient spells are likely to get less love. Meteor swarm is perhaps the best example -- you get damage that's way out of line with other damage spells, but it ought to be somewhat balanced by being hard to use, and if you can just drop in on top of the party, it's not. (I have played at that level, and the evoker wizard did it. A lot.) But even fireball benefits in a similar manner.
And unless you take one specific subclass where you’re trading an active feature like blocking damage to allies or regaining spell slots with a passive no friendly fire one, your caster still has to worry about it.
How is this even a discussion? The spell let's you do an average of 140 hp of damage to everything in a half acre area from a mile away. If that's weak, what more do you want?
J. Robert Oppenheimer would be satisfied with this spell!
Okay glad you clarified, because going from the Spell Description for spheres, your math is way off. :)
"Is meteor swarm just really weak?"
No.
Simple as that. No, it is not weak.
Next question?
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
It's very rare that the vertical aspect of AoEs like that is relevant in typical play, although admittedly by the time you're casting Meteor Swarm there is a higher chance you're dealing with something relevant, such as a hostile force with flying elements.
I have trouble thinking of a situation where I'd pick Weird. Blade of Disaster has some very specialized use cases, either where you have an ability to cast a spell without using a spell slot (and thus the bonus action helps a lot), or where 'pass through any barrier' is an asset (there are typically better solutions to a wall of force, but not to a prismatic wall), but probably not a spell I'd routinely prepare. Power word kill also has specialized uses, when dealing with enemies where simply reducing them to 0 hp won't kill them, but again, not something to routinely prepare.
2024 Weird has a range advantage since you get a 30 ft AoE emanating from a 120 ft range, no target limit, and higher initial damage with a chance for it to further tick up if they fail saves. Doesn't set up targets for the party, but for hitting a clump of enemies at a distance it's better than Psychic Scream and much more discreet and easier on local property values than Meteor Swarm.
Regarding Blade of Disaster, that'd be my go-to if I want to just carve away at a boss- with 60 ft of range I can cast and step back if I'm worried about attacks and then I've got a solid chunk of bonus damage on top of whatever blasts I'm tossing. Really, the simple fact it's attack rolls rather than a save makes it pretty attractive against 4th tier bosses imo.
The main advantage they have over meteor swarm is that it's much easier to avoid nuking your party with them.
(Relatedly, I think the evocation wizard power was a mistake.)
I'm curious if you think the metamagic is a problem too, or if the fact that it uses resources and is a choice a sorcerer has to make to take makes it fine (assuming you're talking about that feature, that is).
Probably, but I haven't seen it in action as much yet.
But letting casters throw the highest-damage area-effect spells around without worrying about collateral damage means that the less-efficient spells are likely to get less love. Meteor swarm is perhaps the best example -- you get damage that's way out of line with other damage spells, but it ought to be somewhat balanced by being hard to use, and if you can just drop in on top of the party, it's not. (I have played at that level, and the evoker wizard did it. A lot.) But even fireball benefits in a similar manner.
And unless you take one specific subclass where you’re trading an active feature like blocking damage to allies or regaining spell slots with a passive no friendly fire one, your caster still has to worry about it.
How is this even a discussion? The spell let's you do an average of 140 hp of damage to everything in a half acre area from a mile away. If that's weak, what more do you want?
J. Robert Oppenheimer would be satisfied with this spell!
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.