I've noticed that basically everything in the new rules can teleport. Moon druids teleport, Soul knives teleport, Archfey warlocks do nothing except teleport, the Moon bards can teleport, World Tree barbs teleport, Fey Wanderers teleport, the UA Conjurers teleport, Noble Genies teleport, Cartographers teleport. It's very boring and excessive.
This list doesn't even include older things that can teleport, like the Circle of Wildfire, Fathomless warlock, Wild Magic barbs (sometimes), Shadow Monks, and Shadow Sorcerers.
Obviously, teleportation is fun and flavorful, but I think it's getting a bit extreme.
Teleportation has always been fairly common place in 5th edition, it's not new to the 2024 rules. Imo it's neither boring (teleportation encourages interesting movement) nor excessive
I THINK OP is wanting more unique options especially due to the influx of so many teleportation options in Heroes of Faerun in particular.
Exactly. Teleportation is cool if you want a mobility-based subclass, but when Archfeys lose ALMOST ALL of their fun features just to cast Misty Step a bunch, it gets really boring. Conjurers are really suffering from the teleportation issue. Creating objects fits the theme much better than teleportation, even if teleport spells are Conjuration.
I THINK OP is wanting more unique options especially due to the influx of so many teleportation options in Heroes of Faerun in particular.
Exactly. Teleportation is cool if you want a mobility-based subclass, but when Archfeys lose ALMOST ALL of their fun features just to cast Misty Step a bunch, it gets really boring. Conjurers are really suffering from the teleportation issue. Creating objects fits the theme much better than teleportation, even if teleport spells are Conjuration.
I've always thought teleportation spells being in Conjuration felt weird. I don't think any of the other existing schools is really a better fit, but I think teleportation (and other movement stuff like Longstrider and maybe even Haste) deserve to have their own school and their own Wizard subclass separate from Conjuration.
I THINK OP is wanting more unique options especially due to the influx of so many teleportation options in Heroes of Faerun in particular.
Exactly. Teleportation is cool if you want a mobility-based subclass, but when Archfeys lose ALMOST ALL of their fun features just to cast Misty Step a bunch, it gets really boring. Conjurers are really suffering from the teleportation issue. Creating objects fits the theme much better than teleportation, even if teleport spells are Conjuration.
I've always thought teleportation spells being in Conjuration felt weird. I don't think any of the other existing schools is really a better fit, but I think teleportation (and other movement stuff like Longstrider and maybe even Haste) deserve to have their own school and their own Wizard subclass separate from Conjuration.
That would be really cool. Someone needs to come up with a name for that school.
I think the generic design document in 5e has been when nothing else fits add a teleport. Which would be problematic as I use to have a setting where dimenional energy (teleports, bags of holdings ect) could cause an explosive event.
Honestly a few of the teleporting subclasses are really cool, but just as many are "what the hell are they thinking" as they don't thematically make sense. ie Conjuration in the UA feeling terrible while Archfey makes a ton of logical sense.
I honestly wish the team would sit down and read the rules books from ages past and come up with subclasses that use to exist but have not been seen in 20 years.
A few suggestions:
Warlord - Martial leadership no magic.
Mystic Theurge - Wizard can heal.
Hierophant - The Cleric can DPR like a Wizard
dwarven vindicator - Singing Barbarian "Bard" with out of combat heals. (One I played long ago BTW, my Dwarf Loka best Mountian Dwarf ever.)
I think the generic design document in 5e has been when nothing else fits add a teleport. Which would be problematic as I use to have a setting where dimenional energy (teleports, bags of holdings ect) could cause an explosive event.
Honestly a few of the teleporting subclasses are really cool, but just as many are "what the hell are they thinking" as they don't thematically make sense. ie Conjuration in the UA feeling terrible while Archfey makes a ton of logical sense.
I honestly wish the team would sit down and read the rules books from ages past and come up with subclasses that use to exist but have not been seen in 20 years.
A few suggestions:
Warlord - Martial leadership no magic.
Mystic Theurge - Wizard can heal.
Hierophant - The Cleric can DPR like a Wizard
dwarven vindicator - Singing Barbarian "Bard" with out of combat heals. (One I played long ago BTW, my Dwarf Loka best Mountian Dwarf ever.)
The Archfey teleporting is fun, but them doing basically nothing else is not. Dark Delirium was a cool feature.
Getting some of the old prestige classes as subclasses would be fun. We already got a close equivalent to Favored Soul, so Heirophant and Mystic Theurge don't seem particularly unlikely.
Wait. Im confused. What in game mechanic does teleportation thwart that it actually matters to anything?
If you want a hex crawl of exploration, then teleportation bypasses a lot of that i suppose.
But otherwise, you can teleport out of a grapple, and out of a jail cell, and its kind of a handy "lets ignore this gnomish bridge puzzle the dm spent hours creating".
But i mean there are a lot of things that the dm has to adjust for as powers increase...
Wait. Im confused. What in game mechanic does teleportation thwart that it actually matters to anything?
If you want a hex crawl of exploration, then teleportation bypasses a lot of that i suppose.
But otherwise, you can teleport out of a grapple, and out of a jail cell, and its kind of a handy "lets ignore this gnomish bridge puzzle the dm spent hours creating".
But i mean there are a lot of things that the dm has to adjust for as powers increase...
OP feels it's copy-pasted, & not befitting/that Archfey Warlock suffers from reduced uniqueness as a result.
While I could argue that these classes do different things with/during said teleportation, & that "unique" doesn't automatically mean good, I'm leaving this thread due to notification burnout settling in.
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DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Teleportation is cool if you want a mobility-based subclass, but when Archfeys lose ALMOST ALL of their fun features just to cast Misty Step a bunch, it gets really boring.
If you're bored with Archfey play a different subclass, but leave my blinklock alone.
Spammable teleportation IS a fun feature, particularly on a Warlock, which does not otherwise have the fuel to justify such a strategy.
I'd say that issue is fairly wide spread across 2024 with not only teleport but other abilities. Shoves for example used to be fairly niche the warlock and a couple subclasses, now they are everywhere. And i think overall it makes the game worse with that much overlap in abilities.
The Archfey teleporting is fun, but them doing basically nothing else is not. Dark Delirium was a cool feature.
Getting some of the old prestige classes as subclasses would be fun. We already got a close equivalent to Favored Soul, so Heirophant and Mystic Theurge don't seem particularly unlikely.
With the 2024 Warlock the raw class is fairly strong, if you go with a Hexblade build Pact of the Blade build you don't have the Armor to sit in melee. The Archfey Warlock allows for a surprisingly tanky Melee build allowing the Warlock to attack, teleport out and when they do so they taunt the target. As a DM one of my players built a Kobold Archfey that was both the Face and tank of the Party. The fun part of the RP was the highest Int score was the Barbarian. The Multiverse will never recover from that party.
Wait. Im confused. What in game mechanic does teleportation thwart that it actually matters to anything?
If you want a hex crawl of exploration, then teleportation bypasses a lot of that i suppose.
But otherwise, you can teleport out of a grapple, and out of a jail cell, and its kind of a handy "lets ignore this gnomish bridge puzzle the dm spent hours creating".
But i mean there are a lot of things that the dm has to adjust for as powers increase...
Several actually, the big one being Attack of Opprotunity. But also if you spend most of your movement getting away from a melee character you will never be hit by melee, because the teleport subclasses are usually built on the Bonus Action teleport, so you can attack, teleport 30, and move 30. The target would need to Move Action Dash to get to melee only for the same to happen.
Wait. Im confused. What in game mechanic does teleportation thwart that it actually matters to anything?
If you want a hex crawl of exploration, then teleportation bypasses a lot of that i suppose.
But otherwise, you can teleport out of a grapple, and out of a jail cell, and its kind of a handy "lets ignore this gnomish bridge puzzle the dm spent hours creating".
But i mean there are a lot of things that the dm has to adjust for as powers increase...
OP feels it's copy-pasted, & not befitting/that Archfey Warlock suffers from reduced uniqueness as a result.
While I could argue that these classes do different things with/during said teleportation, & that "unique" doesn't automatically mean good, I'm leaving this thread due to notification burnout settling in.
I posted about my last campaign, Archfey is IMO the best tank in D&D thanks to being able to tuant and teleport away.
I THINK OP is wanting more unique options especially due to the influx of so many teleportation options in Heroes of Faerun in particular.
Exactly. Teleportation is cool if you want a mobility-based subclass, but when Archfeys lose ALMOST ALL of their fun features just to cast Misty Step a bunch, it gets really boring. Conjurers are really suffering from the teleportation issue. Creating objects fits the theme much better than teleportation, even if teleport spells are Conjuration.
The strongest Class in D&D is Warlock, Archfey is possibly the strongest Tanking class because of the Teleports. As a DM I just had a campaign finish where the main tank was an Archfey, I really tried to kill that Kobold a few times, and couldn't. Nearly got the Hunter by accident though.
--
While I wont give away how they built their character as it's not my character to share. They were Archfey 13/Draconic 3/Fighter 1 at the end.
I THINK OP is wanting more unique options especially due to the influx of so many teleportation options in Heroes of Faerun in particular.
Exactly. Teleportation is cool if you want a mobility-based subclass, but when Archfeys lose ALMOST ALL of their fun features just to cast Misty Step a bunch, it gets really boring. Conjurers are really suffering from the teleportation issue. Creating objects fits the theme much better than teleportation, even if teleport spells are Conjuration.
I've always thought teleportation spells being in Conjuration felt weird. I don't think any of the other existing schools is really a better fit, but I think teleportation (and other movement stuff like Longstrider and maybe even Haste) deserve to have their own school and their own Wizard subclass separate from Conjuration.
But aren't they basically Enchantments? Or is enchantment pidgin holed as the thirsty wizard school of magic?
I THINK OP is wanting more unique options especially due to the influx of so many teleportation options in Heroes of Faerun in particular.
Exactly. Teleportation is cool if you want a mobility-based subclass, but when Archfeys lose ALMOST ALL of their fun features just to cast Misty Step a bunch, it gets really boring. Conjurers are really suffering from the teleportation issue. Creating objects fits the theme much better than teleportation, even if teleport spells are Conjuration.
I've always thought teleportation spells being in Conjuration felt weird. I don't think any of the other existing schools is really a better fit, but I think teleportation (and other movement stuff like Longstrider and maybe even Haste) deserve to have their own school and their own Wizard subclass separate from Conjuration.
But aren't they basically Enchantments? Or is enchantment pidgin holed as the thirsty wizard school of magic?
Enchantment spells in D&D are generally about affecting other people’s minds in some way. I don’t think teleportation really fits there.
I'd say that issue is fairly wide spread across 2024 with not only teleport but other abilities. Shoves for example used to be fairly niche the warlock and a couple subclasses, now they are everywhere. And i think overall it makes the game worse with that much overlap in abilities.
(complains about lack of options)
(Gets mad when people start using options)
DnD's set up doesn't have a lot of bandwidth to make both niche AND effective builds at the same time. Like the old grapple builds could be hyper optimized, but they were clunky and made you impractical since it tied up most, if not all of your action economy. The revamp made optimization harder, but a lot more builds could now make use of it without disruptive levels of investment.
So when you actually break things down, the overlap is NOT the issue. If that were true, we'd have to dissuade half the classes from damage dealing to lessen the overlap. The real issue is opportunity cost. Teleports are very high impact, so what you should be arguing is lessening the impact of teleporting. Shove is a problem because it costs a lot of movement to get back up. So in that vein, we need more baked in resistance to going prone or cheaper to standing back up.
As for Conjuration being the school for teleport.... I mean... the entire school is about making things appear from wherever they were to being in front of you. 'Creating' objects is a Transmutation thing, unless you're willing to argue about raw materials rules and molecular physics.
I've noticed that basically everything in the new rules can teleport. Moon druids teleport, Soul knives teleport, Archfey warlocks do nothing except teleport, the Moon bards can teleport, World Tree barbs teleport, Fey Wanderers teleport, the UA Conjurers teleport, Noble Genies teleport, Cartographers teleport. It's very boring and excessive.
This list doesn't even include older things that can teleport, like the Circle of Wildfire, Fathomless warlock, Wild Magic barbs (sometimes), Shadow Monks, and Shadow Sorcerers.
Obviously, teleportation is fun and flavorful, but I think it's getting a bit extreme.
Teleportation has always been fairly common place in 5th edition, it's not new to the 2024 rules. Imo it's neither boring (teleportation encourages interesting movement) nor excessive
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I THINK OP is wanting more unique options especially due to the influx of so many teleportation options in Heroes of Faerun in particular.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Hoo boy, you are not going to like Eberron Forge of Artificer, the Cartographer subclass. All they do is teleport.
Exactly. Teleportation is cool if you want a mobility-based subclass, but when Archfeys lose ALMOST ALL of their fun features just to cast Misty Step a bunch, it gets really boring. Conjurers are really suffering from the teleportation issue. Creating objects fits the theme much better than teleportation, even if teleport spells are Conjuration.
I've always thought teleportation spells being in Conjuration felt weird. I don't think any of the other existing schools is really a better fit, but I think teleportation (and other movement stuff like Longstrider and maybe even Haste) deserve to have their own school and their own Wizard subclass separate from Conjuration.
pronouns: he/she/they
That would be really cool. Someone needs to come up with a name for that school.
I think the generic design document in 5e has been when nothing else fits add a teleport. Which would be problematic as I use to have a setting where dimenional energy (teleports, bags of holdings ect) could cause an explosive event.
Honestly a few of the teleporting subclasses are really cool, but just as many are "what the hell are they thinking" as they don't thematically make sense. ie Conjuration in the UA feeling terrible while Archfey makes a ton of logical sense.
I honestly wish the team would sit down and read the rules books from ages past and come up with subclasses that use to exist but have not been seen in 20 years.
A few suggestions:
Warlord - Martial leadership no magic.
Mystic Theurge - Wizard can heal.
Hierophant - The Cleric can DPR like a Wizard
dwarvenvindicator - Singing Barbarian "Bard" with out of combat heals. (One I played long ago BTW, my Dwarf Loka best Mountian Dwarf ever.)The Archfey teleporting is fun, but them doing basically nothing else is not. Dark Delirium was a cool feature.
Getting some of the old prestige classes as subclasses would be fun. We already got a close equivalent to Favored Soul, so Heirophant and Mystic Theurge don't seem particularly unlikely.
"teleport. It's very boring and excessive."
Wait. Im confused. What in game mechanic does teleportation thwart that it actually matters to anything?
If you want a hex crawl of exploration, then teleportation bypasses a lot of that i suppose.
But otherwise, you can teleport out of a grapple, and out of a jail cell, and its kind of a handy "lets ignore this gnomish bridge puzzle the dm spent hours creating".
But i mean there are a lot of things that the dm has to adjust for as powers increase...
OP feels it's copy-pasted, & not befitting/that Archfey Warlock suffers from reduced uniqueness as a result.
While I could argue that these classes do different things with/during said teleportation, & that "unique" doesn't automatically mean good, I'm leaving this thread due to notification burnout settling in.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
If you're bored with Archfey play a different subclass, but leave my blinklock alone.
Spammable teleportation IS a fun feature, particularly on a Warlock, which does not otherwise have the fuel to justify such a strategy.
I'd say that issue is fairly wide spread across 2024 with not only teleport but other abilities. Shoves for example used to be fairly niche the warlock and a couple subclasses, now they are everywhere. And i think overall it makes the game worse with that much overlap in abilities.
And when teleport doesn't fit, add temporary hit points.
Teleportation has definitely become more common in 2024, which makes it feel less special.
And if neither of those fit, give them a flying speed with hover as a capstone (looking at you, Noble Genies and Spellfire Sorcerer).
With the 2024 Warlock the raw class is fairly strong, if you go with a
Hexblade buildPact of the Blade build you don't have the Armor to sit in melee. The Archfey Warlock allows for a surprisingly tanky Melee build allowing the Warlock to attack, teleport out and when they do so they taunt the target. As a DM one of my players built a Kobold Archfey that was both the Face and tank of the Party. The fun part of the RP was the highest Int score was the Barbarian. The Multiverse will never recover from that party.Several actually, the big one being Attack of Opprotunity. But also if you spend most of your movement getting away from a melee character you will never be hit by melee, because the teleport subclasses are usually built on the Bonus Action teleport, so you can attack, teleport 30, and move 30. The target would need to Move Action Dash to get to melee only for the same to happen.
I posted about my last campaign, Archfey is IMO the best tank in D&D thanks to being able to tuant and teleport away.
The strongest Class in D&D is Warlock, Archfey is possibly the strongest Tanking class because of the Teleports. As a DM I just had a campaign finish where the main tank was an Archfey, I really tried to kill that Kobold a few times, and couldn't. Nearly got the Hunter by accident though.
--
While I wont give away how they built their character as it's not my character to share. They were Archfey 13/Draconic 3/Fighter 1 at the end.
But aren't they basically Enchantments? Or is enchantment pidgin holed as the thirsty wizard school of magic?
Enchantment spells in D&D are generally about affecting other people’s minds in some way. I don’t think teleportation really fits there.
pronouns: he/she/they
(complains about lack of options)
(Gets mad when people start using options)
DnD's set up doesn't have a lot of bandwidth to make both niche AND effective builds at the same time. Like the old grapple builds could be hyper optimized, but they were clunky and made you impractical since it tied up most, if not all of your action economy. The revamp made optimization harder, but a lot more builds could now make use of it without disruptive levels of investment.
So when you actually break things down, the overlap is NOT the issue. If that were true, we'd have to dissuade half the classes from damage dealing to lessen the overlap. The real issue is opportunity cost. Teleports are very high impact, so what you should be arguing is lessening the impact of teleporting. Shove is a problem because it costs a lot of movement to get back up. So in that vein, we need more baked in resistance to going prone or cheaper to standing back up.
As for Conjuration being the school for teleport.... I mean... the entire school is about making things appear from wherever they were to being in front of you. 'Creating' objects is a Transmutation thing, unless you're willing to argue about raw materials rules and molecular physics.
I kind of agree. Its starting to trivialize some traditional dungeons obstacles. Yeah you can try to design around it, but still annoying.