You *can* make it easy with a lawful good bard posing as a paladin, but it would be more interesting to make it hard. A chaotic neutral bard posing as a paladin has conflicting motivations and predilections, which will make for some dynamic role playing.
I guess my question would be "why?" As in what are you trying to achieve by posing as anoher class... If it's the thrill of getting away with it.. I don't think taking bard and only doing cleric stuff is that interesting... Instead you should try to reflavor your bard abilities to appear as if they are just odd homebrewed cleric spells or subclass abilities and see how long it takes untill someone notices what's going on.
So you can call your bardic inspiration "Blessing of Bolsamar" or something like that..
When I created the OP, it was largely for entertainment, but more specifically because we have a group with a rotating DM, and I was finishing my turn as DM. I wanted to introduce an npc that I would later play as my PC, retiring an old character, and I thought it would be fun to play the character as a con artist who was in disguise for several sessions first. It became a moot point though, since one of our players went and got each of us a Hero Forge custom mini representing our current characters for Christmas. I'd feel a bit guilty not using it now.
Maybe I missed the detail that you were the DM. This seems much easier to pull off with rolls behind the DM screen, which you can fudge if necessary. Bard attacks with shortsword: hit for 1d6 + 3 damage and rolls 1. "Oh wow, really bad luck. I rolled 3 ones on my sneak attack. I probably should have gotten better than a +1 on dex for my rogue. Only 4 damage."
"Using cunning action, the rogue takes the hide action as a bonus action. Oh no, I rolled really low on my stealth check."
I guess you could only pull this off a few times before they started to get suspicious, but if you stick mostly to actions where the fake character wouldn't be that much better than the real character, you could string them along for a few sessions.
It's more fun anyway if they have a *chance* to figure it out.
Let's say you wanted to play a character who was pretending to be a member of a class that they weren't. Which class would you choose to be and which would you choose to masquerade as?
I would require a character pretending to be a mage, to roll an Arcana skill check, and a pretending to be a warrior, to roll an Athletics check. Rogue is trickier, but Stealth or History (crime) can be appropriate.
One way around some of the challenges is to actually have 1 level in the class you are portraying yourself as. For example, I had a rogue 1 / wizard 5 who portrayed herself purely as a rogue. Could sneak attack, use thieves' tools, and fought with twin shortswords. Dressed all in black gear, and didn't use flashy spells (unless absolutely necessary), had a good AC because of a high dex, supplemented HP with false life, and actually paid attention to material components so she didn't have to have an obvious arcane focus or spell component pouch. A sorcerer with a single level of fighter - with armor and a shield and a sword and using subtle cast metamagic, as well as verbal only spells - can also pull off the masquerade. In general, this falls under "soft and squishy characters not wanting to advertise that they are soft and squishy."
As Dungeon Master, I have a very large church run by bards. They pay other bards to go around singing the praises of their church. I've never bothered to define whether their deity is even real - there are no clerics, so it doesn't actually matter.
But I will be honest, this concept works MUCH better for NPCs than it does for players. The NPC who is not what she or he appears to be can be a lot of fun.
I'm currently building out a warlock with Celestial patron (feat. in Xanathar's)--this subclass is often described as a weak cleric or weak paladin, as it has both spellcaster and healer elements. If you dress it up right, you could definitely get away with it. My patron is a goddess who operates via planetar celestials, but is commonly worshipped in the world so definitely would be a common Cleric/Paladin patron as well. I chose this out of interest in the subclass that led surprisingly smoothly into my character's backstory, but if you're interested in masquerading as something else, a healer warlock pretending to be a cleric would be pretty interesting. Maybe you don't want to admit you made some kind of pact? Idk.
Divine Sorcerer playing off as a Cleric. Looking over the spell lists, if you picked right and cast at the right times, people would be hard pressed to tell the difference. Things would catch up as you leveled and remained so frail, but overall, could fill the role admirably well, I think.
Fighter, beef up on Archery stuff and play as a Ranger. Lacks a lot of the woodsy stuff, but if you pick proficiencies right (Nature, Survival, etc) you could be a convincing Ranger. Surprising for the enemies who finally rush the archer to engage melee when he whips out a Longsword and lays waste.
Few of the Cleric Domains could pass off as another class too if you wanted for a bit. Again, it would catch up to you eventually, but there's a fair number of combos one could RP and still be mechanically viable, if not entirely optimal.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
A bard with the criminal background could probably be a convincing rogue. A rogue with the entertainer background could convince NPCs that they’re a bard, but would need some spells to convince a player.
Bards would probably be particularly good at this kind of thing actually. They have a lot of versatility, and the subclasses kind of work like other classes. Valor and Swords work for the martial classes. Whisper and Satire work for Rogues. Lore Bards work for Wizards, Sorcerers, etc.
There is a player in my party that wanted to present himself as a bard when he was a rogue. However, because I was playing a bard it was immediately apparent that he wasn't a bard to everyone when in combat I would cast Bane and he would run off and hide in the shadows to see when he could get in a good stabby-stab-stab. He took performance as a proficiency but not for expertise. And of course, he never gave out bardic inspiration in the earliest combat rounds so ...
You can fool NPCs with some help from your party, but I don't think you're going to fool your party trying to present yourself as a bard to them as a rogue.
The other way around ... well if the DM allows you to trade a proficiency for proficiency with thieves tools, or you take the appropriate background, I think a Bard could go a long way to present himself as a rogue, although it might take a tiny bit of help from the DM, such as when you "should be" rolling with advantage in an attack but the bard can't. If the DM goes along with you rolling two d20s but you only call out the result of one of them, say the blue one, then your party might not pick up on some of the subtlety for some time. But by the time you have reached level five and haven't done some of the stereotypical rogue things, they will figure it out. You will have to push Dex and say you are hiding a lot, but you could fool them for some time. But for flavor, I think a bard that wants to present himself as a Bard, but does a lot of rogue stuff in town sneaking about would be a fun RP.
I'm playing my Bard as an honorable fellow so I shouldn't change styles in this campaign. Maybe some other time.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I'm currently building out a warlock with Celestial patron (feat. in Xanathar's)--this subclass is often described as a weak cleric or weak paladin, as it has both spellcaster and healer elements. If you dress it up right, you could definitely get away with it. My patron is a goddess who operates via planetar celestials, but is commonly worshipped in the world so definitely would be a common Cleric/Paladin patron as well. I chose this out of interest in the subclass that led surprisingly smoothly into my character's backstory, but if you're interested in masquerading as something else, a healer warlock pretending to be a cleric would be pretty interesting. Maybe you don't want to admit you made some kind of pact? Idk.
Well, warlocks may be "weaker" than clerics but in a fight they're way better strikers, faces, scouts. Their at-will invocations and abilities make them super customizable as well, perfect for a diety wanting a specific task done.
A celestial warlock IMO is basically like a hired hitman for a diety. Patron gives you a small set of skills and tools, which can't be taken back if you renege, and you use your bag of tricks extremely well for the task your "employer" gives you. At high levels, you even get Mystic Arcanum which makes you offensively better than any Cleric (except lvl 17 Arcana) at the specific role you're doing.
I made a reborn (goblin) rouge (would have swashbuckler if I had it) That is really just a stealthy fighter. He's a rebel that was killed in combat with his kingdom's githyanki rulers. Essetially, I made it if the Sky Pirates of Qu'rath end up being a continual recruiting thing (No pressure thou). He used to be a lasher, but rose up against every ruler or people that tried to force him into submission and killed or deafeated them all. The the gith came and he got outnumbered 20-1. He took 19 down before taking the 20th with him. Then, The grateful kobolds that had lived alongside the goblins in their sewers and such (Nice places there) revived him. Also I petition IF IT HAPPENS to call a ship The Paladin's Scurvy
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helper of Create a World thread/Sedge is Chaotic Neutral/ Mega Yahtzee High: 34, Low: 14/I speak English, je me parle le Francais, agus Labhraim beagan Gaeilge
Essetially, I made it if the Sky Pirates of Qu'rath end up being a continual recruiting thing (No pressure thou). ...//... Also I petition IF IT HAPPENS to call a ship The Paladin's Scurvy
Helper of Create a World thread/Sedge is Chaotic Neutral/ Mega Yahtzee High: 34, Low: 14/I speak English, je me parle le Francais, agus Labhraim beagan Gaeilge
The funniest moments of Star Wars are chaotic neutral rogue Han posing as a lawful evil storm trooper.
I missed the point then. Doh.
I think assassins and charlatans still do it.
I guess my question would be "why?" As in what are you trying to achieve by posing as anoher class... If it's the thrill of getting away with it.. I don't think taking bard and only doing cleric stuff is that interesting... Instead you should try to reflavor your bard abilities to appear as if they are just odd homebrewed cleric spells or subclass abilities and see how long it takes untill someone notices what's going on.
So you can call your bardic inspiration "Blessing of Bolsamar" or something like that..
When I created the OP, it was largely for entertainment, but more specifically because we have a group with a rotating DM, and I was finishing my turn as DM. I wanted to introduce an npc that I would later play as my PC, retiring an old character, and I thought it would be fun to play the character as a con artist who was in disguise for several sessions first. It became a moot point though, since one of our players went and got each of us a Hero Forge custom mini representing our current characters for Christmas. I'd feel a bit guilty not using it now.
Maybe I missed the detail that you were the DM. This seems much easier to pull off with rolls behind the DM screen, which you can fudge if necessary. Bard attacks with shortsword: hit for 1d6 + 3 damage and rolls 1. "Oh wow, really bad luck. I rolled 3 ones on my sneak attack. I probably should have gotten better than a +1 on dex for my rogue. Only 4 damage."
"Using cunning action, the rogue takes the hide action as a bonus action. Oh no, I rolled really low on my stealth check."
I guess you could only pull this off a few times before they started to get suspicious, but if you stick mostly to actions where the fake character wouldn't be that much better than the real character, you could string them along for a few sessions.
It's more fun anyway if they have a *chance* to figure it out.
I would require a character pretending to be a mage, to roll an Arcana skill check, and a pretending to be a warrior, to roll an Athletics check. Rogue is trickier, but Stealth or History (crime) can be appropriate.
he / him
One way around some of the challenges is to actually have 1 level in the class you are portraying yourself as. For example, I had a rogue 1 / wizard 5 who portrayed herself purely as a rogue. Could sneak attack, use thieves' tools, and fought with twin shortswords. Dressed all in black gear, and didn't use flashy spells (unless absolutely necessary), had a good AC because of a high dex, supplemented HP with false life, and actually paid attention to material components so she didn't have to have an obvious arcane focus or spell component pouch. A sorcerer with a single level of fighter - with armor and a shield and a sword and using subtle cast metamagic, as well as verbal only spells - can also pull off the masquerade. In general, this falls under "soft and squishy characters not wanting to advertise that they are soft and squishy."
As Dungeon Master, I have a very large church run by bards. They pay other bards to go around singing the praises of their church. I've never bothered to define whether their deity is even real - there are no clerics, so it doesn't actually matter.
But I will be honest, this concept works MUCH better for NPCs than it does for players. The NPC who is not what she or he appears to be can be a lot of fun.
Warlock ... acting like a thief ... take the Urchin background to get prof.
Discord: MasterWitch#2965
My World Anvil account if you're interested. Work in progress.
https://www.worldanvil.com/w/land-of-the-fallen-7Blandfall7D-masterwitch
I made a Warlock goblin fiend pact with the background Urchin to get the skills including slight of hand to be a thief.
Discord: MasterWitch#2965
My World Anvil account if you're interested. Work in progress.
https://www.worldanvil.com/w/land-of-the-fallen-7Blandfall7D-masterwitch
I also have a tabaxi Assassin that has performance and travels around working as a bard.
Discord: MasterWitch#2965
My World Anvil account if you're interested. Work in progress.
https://www.worldanvil.com/w/land-of-the-fallen-7Blandfall7D-masterwitch
I'm currently building out a warlock with Celestial patron (feat. in Xanathar's)--this subclass is often described as a weak cleric or weak paladin, as it has both spellcaster and healer elements. If you dress it up right, you could definitely get away with it. My patron is a goddess who operates via planetar celestials, but is commonly worshipped in the world so definitely would be a common Cleric/Paladin patron as well. I chose this out of interest in the subclass that led surprisingly smoothly into my character's backstory, but if you're interested in masquerading as something else, a healer warlock pretending to be a cleric would be pretty interesting. Maybe you don't want to admit you made some kind of pact? Idk.
Divine Sorcerer playing off as a Cleric. Looking over the spell lists, if you picked right and cast at the right times, people would be hard pressed to tell the difference. Things would catch up as you leveled and remained so frail, but overall, could fill the role admirably well, I think.
Fighter, beef up on Archery stuff and play as a Ranger. Lacks a lot of the woodsy stuff, but if you pick proficiencies right (Nature, Survival, etc) you could be a convincing Ranger. Surprising for the enemies who finally rush the archer to engage melee when he whips out a Longsword and lays waste.
Few of the Cleric Domains could pass off as another class too if you wanted for a bit. Again, it would catch up to you eventually, but there's a fair number of combos one could RP and still be mechanically viable, if not entirely optimal.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
A feat or two towards armor goes a long way toward seeming like you aren't a sorcerer or a wizard.
There is a player in my party that wanted to present himself as a bard when he was a rogue. However, because I was playing a bard it was immediately apparent that he wasn't a bard to everyone when in combat I would cast Bane and he would run off and hide in the shadows to see when he could get in a good stabby-stab-stab. He took performance as a proficiency but not for expertise. And of course, he never gave out bardic inspiration in the earliest combat rounds so ...
You can fool NPCs with some help from your party, but I don't think you're going to fool your party trying to present yourself as a bard to them as a rogue.
The other way around ... well if the DM allows you to trade a proficiency for proficiency with thieves tools, or you take the appropriate background, I think a Bard could go a long way to present himself as a rogue, although it might take a tiny bit of help from the DM, such as when you "should be" rolling with advantage in an attack but the bard can't. If the DM goes along with you rolling two d20s but you only call out the result of one of them, say the blue one, then your party might not pick up on some of the subtlety for some time. But by the time you have reached level five and haven't done some of the stereotypical rogue things, they will figure it out. You will have to push Dex and say you are hiding a lot, but you could fool them for some time. But for flavor, I think a bard that wants to present himself as a Bard, but does a lot of rogue stuff in town sneaking about would be a fun RP.
I'm playing my Bard as an honorable fellow so I shouldn't change styles in this campaign. Maybe some other time.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Barbarian trying to be a wizard. No one believes him.
Thief Rogue trying to be a Paladin.
Flavors their "Sneak Attack" as smites.
Then, when they get the "Use Magic Item" ability; they are able to use a Holy Avenger without the class requirement.
That should silence any naysayers ; )
Well, warlocks may be "weaker" than clerics but in a fight they're way better strikers, faces, scouts. Their at-will invocations and abilities make them super customizable as well, perfect for a diety wanting a specific task done.
A celestial warlock IMO is basically like a hired hitman for a diety. Patron gives you a small set of skills and tools, which can't be taken back if you renege, and you use your bag of tricks extremely well for the task your "employer" gives you. At high levels, you even get Mystic Arcanum which makes you offensively better than any Cleric (except lvl 17 Arcana) at the specific role you're doing.
I made a reborn (goblin) rouge (would have swashbuckler if I had it) That is really just a stealthy fighter. He's a rebel that was killed in combat with his kingdom's githyanki rulers. Essetially, I made it if the Sky Pirates of Qu'rath end up being a continual recruiting thing (No pressure thou). He used to be a lasher, but rose up against every ruler or people that tried to force him into submission and killed or deafeated them all. The the gith came and he got outnumbered 20-1. He took 19 down before taking the 20th with him. Then, The grateful kobolds that had lived alongside the goblins in their sewers and such (Nice places there) revived him. Also I petition IF IT HAPPENS to call a ship The Paladin's Scurvy
Helper of Create a World thread/Sedge is Chaotic Neutral/ Mega Yahtzee High: 34, Low: 14/I speak English, je me parle le Francais, agus Labhraim beagan Gaeilge
Dream of Days Lore Bard 9/Wizard 4 Baulder's Gate: Descent to Avernus (In Person/Over Zoom)
Saleadon Morgul Battle Smith Artificer 11 Tyranny of Dragons (In Person/Over Zoom)
Hurtharn Serpti Ghostslayer Blood Hunter 7 Spelljammer (Over Zoom)
Ex Sig
Noted...
No pressure. But these are PIRATE ships after all
Helper of Create a World thread/Sedge is Chaotic Neutral/ Mega Yahtzee High: 34, Low: 14/I speak English, je me parle le Francais, agus Labhraim beagan Gaeilge
Dream of Days Lore Bard 9/Wizard 4 Baulder's Gate: Descent to Avernus (In Person/Over Zoom)
Saleadon Morgul Battle Smith Artificer 11 Tyranny of Dragons (In Person/Over Zoom)
Hurtharn Serpti Ghostslayer Blood Hunter 7 Spelljammer (Over Zoom)
Ex Sig